Edinburgh & The Lothians Council Tender Services

[mb88]

Are the council actually allowed to take into account past performance of an operator on other contracts or do they have to be awarded on the basis of cost alone?

 

[stevenedin]

Are the council actually allowed to take into account past performance of an operator on other contracts or do they have to be awarded on the basis of cost alone?

I don’t know for sure but I dont think that they can judge unless it’s something really bad and they are removed from the supplier list. Thats only my guess though. I could be wrong.

 

[LiviCrazy]

Public Procurement regulations in Scotland does not allow previous performance (good or bad) to be taken into account unless they have had a contract terminated.

Also worth highlighting, contracts in Scotland cannot be awarded on price only, all contracts must contain some element of quality criteria, this is usually assessed by responses to a number of technical (quality) questions, we can only assess what is submitted in writing.

 

[CSB0241]

The council would be out of their mind to award the 13 to McGill’s, given their poor track record with the 20, 63 and 68. I believe that during its last week of operation by McGill’s there were several days where the 68 did not run at all, which McGill’s did not publicise anywhere - they've long since abandoned the page on their website that lists short-notice cancellations. Not to mention the likely downgrade in vehicle provision from Evoras and MMCs to E300s and Streetlites.

This was my train of thought.

Are the council actually allowed to take into account past performance of an operator on other contracts or do they have to be awarded on the basis of cost alone?

I’d assume so, their reaction to not being chosen for the bidding was ridiculous & it meant that many people in a lot of far out places without any other transport links (ie: Turnhouse & Ratho) were left busless for, a lot the time, entire days.

 

[Bus9120UK]

From the Business Bulletin for next weeks Transport and Economic committee:

Service 13 The service 13 contract has been awarded to McGills who will begin running the service in December 2024. A contract extension was agreed with Edinburgh Coach Lines to continue running the service until then, to ensure continuity for passengers.

Dumbiedykes The Dumbiedykes contract has been awarded to McGills, who will begin servicing the route by the end of December 2024. Leith to Holyrood High School Following the actions agreed by Committee in response to a motion on 23 May 2024, Lothian Buses have confirmed they could not run a commercially viable service from Leith to Holyrood High School and would require additional funding from the Council to provide this service.

Lady Nairne The introduction of this service has been delayed due to a request from the operator to make an amendment and introduce an alternative bid. The result of this is that the Council can no longer progress the proposal submitted and must retender the service. The tender process, through the Dynamic Purchasing System (DPS), went live on 11 September 2024, for three weeks (with a return date 2 October 2024). A verbal update on this will be provided at Committee. When the contract is awarded, the operator is bound by procedures set out by the Traffic Commissioner which dictates a minimum of 42 days registration period. Therefore, it is hoped that the latest this service would commence is the end of November.

 

[stevenedin]

From the Business Bulletin for next weeks Transport and Economic committee:

I wonder if they will operate the routes under the Eastern Scottish brand.

 

[mb88]

I’m sure those who rely on these services will be delighted at this news. They can perhaps have a chat with the residents of places such as Ratho and Kirkliston to get an idea of what they have to look forward to given McGill’s shambolic attempt at servicing these areas. Perhaps I’m being cynical though, let’s see how things pan out.

 

[stevenedin]

I’m sure those who rely on these services will be delighted at this news. They can perhaps have a chat with the residents of places such as Ratho and Kirkliston to get an idea of what they have to look forward to given McGill’s shambolic attempt at servicing these areas. Perhaps I’m being cynical though, let’s see how things pan out.

I’d like to think and hope that things will be much more reliable. After all, they seem to be able to operate Bright Bus reliably enough.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

From the Business Bulletin for next weeks Transport and Economic committee:

Dear oh dear. I thought the days of hopelessly run council contracts were over. Indeed, I was wrong. This is where the bidding system is so wrong, prior record should always play a part. I would’ve been happiest with Edinburgh Coach Lines having all 3 of these contracts. Ideal for their portfolio, having ran the 13 extremely well for the last 15 years. Obviously the Lady Nairne one may still happen for them and they have the ideal 72 plate E200mmc for it.

I’m curious to understand what made McGill’s even want these, when you consider how much they were desperate to rid their hands of the last ones. I think it’s safe to say any chance that the Dumbiedykes route had of working has probably gone now.

I’m assuming Bright Bus will run these. I see no reason for the Eastern Scottish brand to be restored for just two small contract services. But then again it is McGill’s! For the sake of the users of these routes, I hope McGill’s at least give them a service they can rely on, but putting it politely, best of luck to the users. They’ll need it.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Dear oh dear. I thought the days of hopelessly run council contracts were over. Indeed, I was wrong. This is where the bidding system is so wrong, prior record should always play a part. I would’ve been happiest with Edinburgh Coach Lines having all 3 of these contracts. Ideal for their portfolio, having ran the 13 extremely well for the last 15 years. Obviously the Lady Nairne one may still happen for them and they have the ideal 72 plate E200mmc for it.

I’m curious to understand what made McGill’s even want these, when you consider how much they were desperate to rid their hands of the last ones. I think it’s safe to say any chance that the Dumbiedykes route had of working has probably gone now.

I’m assuming Bright Bus will run these. I see no reason for the Eastern Scottish brand to be restored for just two small contract services. But then again it is McGill’s! For the sake of the users of these routes, I hope McGill’s at least give them a service they can rely on, but putting it politely, best of luck to the users. They’ll need it.

I would suggest just using the Midland Bluebird brand so it can tie in with the X38 or something. I think they will do that or Bright Bus.

 

[Auld reekie]

I’m sure those who rely on these services will be delighted at this news. They can perhaps have a chat with the residents of places such as Ratho and Kirkliston to get an idea of what they have to look forward to given McGill’s shambolic attempt at servicing these areas. Perhaps I’m being cynical though, let’s see how things pan out.

I agree.
The 63 service was quite unreliable as well.
It’s now very good.

 

[318266]

This is where the bidding system is so wrong, prior record should always play a part.

In theory, companies can change, and so councils aren't usually allowed to be biased (lest they stare down the barrel of the McGill'sian press!)

 

[CSB0241]

From the Business Bulletin for next weeks Transport and Economic committee:

I find it absolutely wild that McGills not only were allowed to tender after their reaction to not being able to do so in West Edinburgh, but they won at least 2/3 tenders. My main wonder now is who’s covering Lady Nairne, were Lothian selected for bidding? If not, as @LothianBusesPh said, Edinburgh Coach Lines’ E200MMC is probably ideal for something like that, & the Evora isn’t half bad either.

Dear oh dear. I thought the days of hopelessly run council contracts were over. Indeed, I was wrong. This is where the bidding system is so wrong, prior record should always play a part.

In theory, companies can change, and so councils aren't usually allowed to be biased (lest they stare down the barrel of the McGill'sian press!)

I’m extremely mixed on this. On one hand, McGills pulling a majority of all 20/63/68 journeys between when they found out they weren’t selected for bidding & when Lothian took over with the 20/32/70/71 was a horrible move. On the other hand, companies can change, & Alex Hornby has resigned since the West Edinburgh withdrawals (admittedly, I amn’t too sure how much he had to do with that department in the company, but from what I can tell, he did play quite a large role), so who knows.

I would’ve been happiest with Edinburgh Coach Lines having all 3 of these contracts. Ideal for their portfolio, having ran the 13 extremely well for the last 15 years. Obviously the Lady Nairne one may still happen for them and they have the ideal 72 plate E200mmc for it.

I agree. The only problem would be the fact that they only have an Evora & E200MMC (unless they still have that second hand Solo?), so they only have buses for the 13, so unless they got more buses (maybe new Solo SRs?), this sadly wouldn’t be possible.

I’m curious to understand what made McGill’s even want these, when you consider how much they were desperate to rid their hands of the last ones.

I think they wanted to hang onto them, & their lack of journeys still in service for those unfortunate last few weeks was basically a strike on their part against the council.

I’m assuming Bright Bus will run these. I see no reason for the Eastern Scottish brand to be restored for just two small contract services. But then again it is McGill’s!

Knowing them, they’ll make a whole new subsidy (McGills Lothian?).

 

[Stan Drews]

I find it absolutely wild that McGills not only were allowed to tender after their reaction to not being able to do so in West Edinburgh, but they won at least 2/3 tenders. My main wonder now is who’s covering Lady Nairne, were Lothian selected for bidding? If not, as @LothianBusesPh said, Edinburgh Coach Lines’ E200MMC is probably ideal for something like that, & the Evora isn’t half bad either.



I’m extremely mixed on this. On one hand, McGills pulling a majority of all 20/63/68 journeys between when they found out they weren’t selected for bidding & when Lothian took over with the 20/32/70/71 was a horrible move. On the other hand, companies can change, & Alex Hornby has resigned since the West Edinburgh withdrawals (admittedly, I amn’t too sure how much he had to do with that department in the company, but from what I can tell, he did play quite a large role), so who knows.


I agree. The only problem would be the fact that they only have an Evora & E200MMC (unless they still have that second hand Solo?), so they only have buses for the 13, so unless they got more buses (maybe new Solo SRs?), this sadly wouldn’t be possible.


I think they wanted to hang onto them, & their lack of journeys still in service for those unfortunate last few weeks was basically a strike on their part against the council.


Knowing them, they’ll make a whole new subsidy (McGills Lothian?).

There’s an awful lot of nonsense spouted about the Edinburgh contracts McGill’s inherited when they acquired First.
A few facts if anyone is interested in such things.
The contracts had an end date of August 2023.
McGill’s continued to operate them after the end of the contract period as a gesture of goodwill to allow the council to conduct their retendering exercise.
The retendering process dragged on for an eternity and McGill’s finally gave the council the necessary notice to end the contracts as they couldn’t stand the losses any longer and council wouldn’t provide any increase on the rates.
The council requested them to continue (again) until such times as the new operators could mobilise their resources.
They agreed to this but highlighted that with driver shortages and likelihood of some drivers leaving prior to the agreed end date, that they wouldn’t be able to provide the full service.

Therefore, many of the issues faced by the communities served by these routes, could easily have been avoided had CEC conducted a timely retendering exercise that would have had any replacement contracts in place in time for Aug ‘23 rather than almost one year later.

I know it suits many on here to criticise McGill’s, so suspect they’ll ignore many of these facts and create their own narrative. Incidentally, I understand that ECL struggle at times to provide the current 13 timetable with journeys often having to be turned short to get back on time resulting in large gaps in service, especially at the less busy Lochend side of the route.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

If not, as @LothianBusesPh said, Edinburgh Coach Lines’ E200MMC is probably ideal for something like that, & the Evora isn’t half bad either.

Edinburgh Coach Lines didn’t bid and I’m confused as to what you’re on about.

 

[VioletEclipse]

Edinburgh Coach Lines didn’t bid and I’m confused as to what you’re on about.

I'm genuinely surprised they didn't bid. Although it's possible they might be wanting to focus just on coach operations rather than bus services. They've ran the 13 well for many years, and as an occasional user I will be sad to see them go.

 

[computerSaysNo]

I'm genuinely surprised they didn't bid. Although it's possible they might be wanting to focus just on coach operations rather than bus services. They've ran the 13 well for many years, and as an occasional user I will be sad to see them go.

I don't really understand the purpose of the east part of the 13. It doesn't look to serve any large areas which don't have a frequent Lothian service; the only areas are between Leith Walk and Easter Road (2 stops), between Easter Road and Lochend Road (3 stops), and east of Restalrig Road (3 stops). I guess some of these areas look like they have higher density housing, but then wouldn't they benefit with a service better than once an hour? Lothian have multiple services on the nearby Sleigh Drive; couldn't one of the 19, 25 or 49 serve Findlay Gardens?

 

[stevenedin]

I don't really understand the purpose of the east part of the 13. It doesn't look to serve any large areas which don't have a frequent Lothian service; the only areas are between Leith Walk and Easter Road (2 stops), between Easter Road and Lochend Road (3 stops), and east of Restalrig Road (3 stops). I guess some of these areas look like they have higher density housing, but then wouldn't they benefit with a service better than once an hour? Lothian have multiple services on the nearby Sleigh Drive; couldn't one of the 19, 25 or 49 serve Findlay Gardens?

Lothian have probably refused to re-route their services hence why it has to be covered by a tendered service.

I agree though, that it would be better for an existing service to cover this part of the route.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Lothian have probably refused to re-route their services hence why it has to be covered by a tendered service.

I agree though, that it would be better for an existing service to cover this part of the route.

There was a brief period where the 15 served it but I am unsure how well it was used. I know there was some outrage when it was cut.

 

[stevenedin]

There was a brief period where the 15 served it but I am unsure how well it was used. I know there was some outrage when it was cut.

There was also the X15 as well. It provided a good link to Morningside. I’m not sure why they couldn’t do it again even if it goes round that way then along Craigentinny Road then Craigentinny Avenue up to Moria Terrace and then down to King’s Road.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

There was also the X15 as well. It provided a good link to Morningside. I’m not sure why they couldn’t do it again even if it goes round that way then along Craigentinny Road then Craigentinny Avenue up to Moria Terrace and then down to King’s Road.

Probably don't see the point since the 19 already covers Abbeyhill - Craigentinny - Portobello anyway.

 

[Porty]

I don't really understand the purpose of the east part of the 13. It doesn't look to serve any large areas which don't have a frequent Lothian service; the only areas are between Leith Walk and Easter Road (2 stops), between Easter Road and Lochend Road (3 stops), and east of Restalrig Road (3 stops). I guess some of these areas look like they have higher density housing, but then wouldn't they benefit with a service better than once an hour? Lothian have multiple services on the nearby Sleigh Drive; couldn't one of the 19, 25 or 49 serve Findlay Gardens?

I agree. It doesn't seem to need the spending of hundreds? of thousands of pounds per year on it. I'm sure there are more deserving areas to spend money on. Glad I'm not an Edinburgh council tax payer.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Handicabs Lothian are the operator for the Lady Nairne service.

View Notice - Public Contracts Scotland

www.publiccontractsscotland.gov.uk

Section V: Award of contract
A contract/lot is awarded: Yes

V.2 Award of contract
V.2.1) Date of conclusion of the contract
23/10/2024

V.2.2) Information about tenders
Number of tenders received: 1

Number of tenders received from SMEs: 1

Number of tenders received from tenderers from EU Member States: 0

Number of tenders received from tenderers from non-EU Member States: 1

Number of tenders received by electronic means: 1

The contract has been awarded to a group of economic operators: No

V.2.3) Name and address of the contractor
Handicabs Lothian

24/3A Dryden Road

Edinburgh

EH20 9HX

UK

NUTS: UKM78

The contractor is an SME: Yes

 

[CSB0241]

Handicabs Lothian are the operator for the Lady Nairne service.

This is certainly interesting, do they have any other buses they could use on it (maybe another Mellor Orion), or might this be them buying another Cityline or Orion?

 

[Stan Drews]

Full details of the new Midland Bluebird routes 13 and 60 are now available on their website/app.

Network changes - Midland Bluebird

www.mcgillsscotlandeast.co.uk

Midland Bluebird will commence operating service 13 on behalf of the City of Edinburgh Council. - Midland Bluebird

www.mcgillsscotlandeast.co.uk

From the 2nd of December 2024 we will be operating service 13 on behalf of the City of Edinburgh Council. The route and timetable will be similar to the current service, but we would encourage customers to view our information online or look out for our leaflets which we will shortly be distributing.

https://passenger-line-assets.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/mcgillsse/MESC/13-timetable-20241202-87c06aff.pdf

https://passenger-line-assets.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/mcgillsse/MESC/13-map-20241202-7ccae80d.pdf

New service 60 will link Dumbiedykes with Surgeons Hall, Tolllcross and Haymarket. - Midland Bluebird

www.mcgillsscotlandeast.co.uk

We will commence the operation of this service on behalf of City of Edinburgh Council. The new route will link the Dumbiedykes area with Surgeons Hall, Tollcross & Haymarket, please view the map and timetable on line or look out for our leaflets.

https://passenger-line-assets.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/mcgillsse/MESC/60-timetable-20241202-7af4279a.pdf

https://passenger-line-assets.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/mcgillsse/MESC/60-map-20241202-c2a27168.pdf

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

New service 60 will link Dumbiedykes with Surgeons Hall, Tolllcross and Haymarket. - Midland Bluebird

www.mcgillsscotlandeast.co.uk

We will commence the operation of this service on behalf of City of Edinburgh Council. The new route will link the Dumbiedykes area with Surgeons Hall, Tollcross & Haymarket, please view the map and timetable on line or look out for our leaflets.

I wonder how long it will last this time then. A very strange route either way with much duplication with the existing Lothian 2. I’d give it a couple of years maximum and at the very least it’ll get changed.

 

[JKP]

Full details of the new Midland Bluebird routes 13 and 60 are now available on their website/app.

Network changes - Midland Bluebird

www.mcgillsscotlandeast.co.uk

Midland Bluebird will commence operating service 13 on behalf of the City of Edinburgh Council. - Midland Bluebird

www.mcgillsscotlandeast.co.uk

From the 2nd of December 2024 we will be operating service 13 on behalf of the City of Edinburgh Council. The route and timetable will be similar to the current service, but we would encourage customers to view our information online or look out for our leaflets which we will shortly be distributing.

https://passenger-line-assets.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/mcgillsse/MESC/13-timetable-20241202-87c06aff.pdf

https://passenger-line-assets.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/mcgillsse/MESC/13-map-20241202-7ccae80d.pdf

New service 60 will link Dumbiedykes with Surgeons Hall, Tolllcross and Haymarket. - Midland Bluebird

www.mcgillsscotlandeast.co.uk

We will commence the operation of this service on behalf of City of Edinburgh Council. The new route will link the Dumbiedykes area with Surgeons Hall, Tollcross & Haymarket, please view the map and timetable on line or look out for our leaflets.

https://passenger-line-assets.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/mcgillsse/MESC/60-timetable-20241202-7af4279a.pdf

https://passenger-line-assets.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/mcgillsse/MESC/60-map-20241202-c2a27168.pdf

The timetable for the 13 has a blinding error. On journeys towards Craigleith, Broughton is shown twice rather than Ravelston.

I also wish that all journeys on the Saturday timetable were shown. There is enough space.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

So I found this on Bustimes also..

X39 - Livingston - Broxburn - Newbridge - Barnton - Lochend

Bright Bus

bustimes.org

 

[Stan Drews]

The timetable for the 13 has a blinding error. On journeys towards Craigleith, Broughton is shown twice rather than Ravelston.

I also wish that all journeys on the Saturday timetable were shown. There is enough space.

The proof checker has been taken round the back of Carmuirs House and shot!
Look out for a corrected version coming soon…

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Nov 2024 ==

So I found this on Bustimes also..

That’s the commercial ‘placing’ journeys.

 

[InOban]

I wonder how long it will last this time then. A very strange route either way with much duplication with the existing Lothian 2. I’d give it a couple of years maximum and at the very least it’ll get changed.

I can't see your problem, it shares the 2 route briefly after Surgeon’s and crosses it again later. With haymarket becoming such an important area, it seems a sensible destination. I would extend it from Holyrood Gait round to the front of the parliament .