Edinburgh - Glasgow peak service

[route101]

It's a hit and a miss, sometimes depends if Caley thistle are at home , though the 1010 is a lot busier for that. Just be at the set sharp and grab a good seat! I wouldn't think it'd be too bad anyway.

Yeah i should be early im getting the 540am 66 bus from East Kilbride.

 

[CarterUSM]

Aye, you'll be in early enough for that, though its a fair journey on the 66!

 

[route101]

the 66 should take 30mins max at that time . The trouble is flagging down the bus at that time in the morning. going off topic here

 

[rail-britain]

Somone posted a request for info on the frequency on services once electrification has been completed, and this thread title seems appropriate :
Glasgow QS - Edinburgh, via Falkirk High 6 trains per hour
Glasgow QS LL - Falkirk Grahamston 1 train per hour
Glasgow QS LL - Cumbernauld 1 train per hour
Glasgow QS - Alloa 2 trains per hour
Glasgow QS - Aberdeen 1 train per hour (Class 170)
Glasgow QS - Perth 1 train per hour (Class 170)
Edinburgh - Dunblane 2 trains per hour
Edinburgh - Inverness 0.5 train per hour (Class 170)
Note, no mention of Glasgow - Inverness

 

[me123]

I'm sure there had been talk for some time of withdrawing Glasgow-Inverness trains and replacing them with Edinburgh-Inverness. Needless to say, that will be quite controversial.

That looks like a sensible proposal. Alloa is going to need 2tph; it's been a huge success story. And it makes sense to serve Bridge of Allan and Dunblane on the Perth service instead. It's kind of what I thought was going to happen on the whole.

Out of curiosity, any mention of Motherwell-Cumbernauld runs at all? Obviously, electrification would mean that that could become EMU operated, but there would also be the potential for the much discussed Motherwell-Stirling services to be operated by EMUs on electrification.

And, as for diverting the Cumbernauld services to the low level, how would this be achieved? There's going to need to be some work at Springburn whatever happens IIRC, but how are the services going to operate this? Are they going to reverse at Springburn (which would seem like a retrograde step for those who remember the old layout!) or are they going to completely bypass Springburn (which could be politically sensitive, as it would involve closing Springburn and Barnhill)?

 

[rail-britain]

I'm sure there had been talk for some time of withdrawing Glasgow-Inverness trains and replacing them with Edinburgh-Inverness. Needless to say, that will be quite controversial

This has been part of a consultation which has now been concluded
There are only three out of the nine services that are currently from Glasgow, in each direction
The number of services is going to effectively be doubled, however all but two will be routed from Edinburgh via Kirkcaldy, the other two will be via Stirling
The Glasgow QS - Perth services will feed into this

Out of curiosity, any mention of Motherwell-Cumbernauld runs at all? Obviously, electrification would mean that that could become EMU operated, but there would also be the potential for the much discussed Motherwell-Stirling services to be operated by EMUs on electrification

As mentioned previously, this forms part of the final part of the "Glasgow South" electrification, and basically will complete the linking of all the areas
Sadly, the (long ago) proposed Motherwell - Stirling has now been dropped, in favour of the half-hourly Glasgow - Alloa

as for diverting the Cumbernauld services to the low level, how would this be achieved?

This was always the plan, with a new section of track parallel to Darnick Street and a new kickback siding at Charing Cross

 

[Nightrider]

This was always the plan, with a new section of track parallel to Darnick Street and a new kickback siding at Anderston

I take it somebody travelling from Cumbernauld to Springburn would then change at Alexander Parade.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandra_Parade_railway_station

 

[route:oxford]

I'm sure there had been talk for some time of withdrawing Glasgow-Inverness trains and replacing them with Edinburgh-Inverness. Needless to say, that will be quite controversial.

Very!

Time for an OA operator to start running the 180s up the Highland mainline.

That looks like a sensible proposal. Alloa is going to need 2tph; it's been a huge success story. And it makes sense to serve Bridge of Allan and Dunblane on the Perth service instead. It's kind of what I thought was going to happen on the whole.

It's starting to look a shame that the Alloa route wasn't rebuilt as double-track.

As long as there is no reduction in service on the Dunblane-Glasgow route - specifically any reduction in the fast services.

Out of curiosity, any mention of Motherwell-Cumbernauld runs at all? Obviously, electrification would mean that that could become EMU operated, but there would also be the potential for the much discussed Motherwell-Stirling services to be operated by EMUs on electrification.

Will there be adequate capacity on the route between Larbert & Stirling to accommodate the extra traffic? Is there space to re-install through running lines at Larbert or plans to resignal with shorter gaps?

 

[rail-britain]

As long as there is no reduction in service on the Dunblane-Glasgow route - specifically any reduction in the fast services

Sadly this entire service goes, instead replaced by the hourly Glasgow - Perth, and the occasional Glasgow - Aberdeen
This has to be done so as to increase capacity on the Glasgow - Alloa service

Equally, the revised Glasgow - Perth service is overdue
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Will there be adequate capacity on the route between Larbert & Stirling to accommodate the extra traffic?

Effectively there is no increase in passenger services, although the signalling is to be upgraded / replaced to allow more trains per hour
The main change is at Carmuirs, where the manual signalboxes cease

 

[kylemore]

I'm sure there had been talk for some time of withdrawing Glasgow-Inverness trains and replacing them with Edinburgh-Inverness. Needless to say, that will be quite controversial.

That looks like a sensible proposal. Alloa is going to need 2tph; it's been a huge success story. And it makes sense to serve Bridge of Allan and Dunblane on the Perth service instead. It's kind of what I thought was going to happen on the whole.

Out of curiosity, any mention of Motherwell-Cumbernauld runs at all? Obviously, electrification would mean that that could become EMU operated, but there would also be the potential for the much discussed Motherwell-Stirling services to be operated by EMUs on electrification.

And, as for diverting the Cumbernauld services to the low level, how would this be achieved? There's going to need to be some work at Springburn whatever happens IIRC, but how are the services going to operate this? Are they going to reverse at Springburn (which would seem like a retrograde step for those who remember the old layout!) or are they going to completely bypass Springburn (which could be politically sensitive, as it would involve closing Springburn and Barnhill)?

Yes very sensible if you happen to be Citylink or brian Souter!

 

[tbtc]

Very!

Time for an OA operator to start running the 180s up the Highland mainline.

Will there be adequate capacity on the route between Larbert & Stirling to accommodate the extra traffic?

If you're worried about adequate capacity on the double track line through Stirling then good luck finding paths for an Open Access operator on the single track Highland Main Line sections

Will be interesting to see how the Inverness situation plays out - "politics" vs "sensible railway priorities" ... I know who usually wins

 

[me123]

As long as there is no reduction in service on the Dunblane-Glasgow route - specifically any reduction in the fast services.

There shouldn't be a reduction. Bridge of Allan and Dunblane will continue to see 1tph to Glasgow, albeit a faster train to Perth. There will be a loss of trains from Bishopbriggs, Lenzie and Croy to Dunblane and Bridge of Allan, but a simple change at Stirling is possible.

It may be the case that calling at Dunblane on Aberdeen trains will cease (although not many do it anyway) in favour of a change at Perth; of course, this would always greatly increase the number of trains from Dunblane to the North anyway.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This was always the plan, with a new section of track parallel to Darnick Street and a new kickback siding at Anderston

So, will Springburn services remain in addition to the Cumbernauld services?

Sadly, the (long ago) proposed Motherwell - Stirling has now been dropped, in favour of the half-hourly Glasgow - Alloa

It's a shame, but anyone would agree that Alloa needs 2tph more than Motherwell needs a direct train to Stirling.

 

[tbtc]

Yes very sensible if you happen to be Citylink or brian Souter!

I think Citylink did something similar in the mid 90s, with an hourly Edinburgh Inverness (957) connecting at Perth with an hourly Glasgow - Aberdeen (963?_
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
One thought - with this increase in services and"clockface" timetable, will there be room for the Chieftan at the current times? Would it have to go via Kirkcaldy to fit in (and therefore deprive Stirling/ Falkirk of their London train)?

 

[me123]

I think Citylink did something similar in the mid 90s, with an hourly Edinburgh Inverness (957) connecting at Perth with an hourly Glasgow - Aberdeen (963?_
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
One thought - with this increase in services and"clockface" timetable, will there be room for the Chieftan at the current times? Would it have to go via Kirkcaldy to fit in (and therefore deprive Stirling/ Falkirk of their London train)?

Well, rail-britain did mention that some Edinburgh-Inverness trains would go via Stirling, so presumably it's possible to keep the Chieftain (either as one of those trains or an additional one; this hasn't been made clear.

Bear in mind that there will also be freight paths through Stirling, so services like the Chieftain may be be to slot into an unused freight path.

 

[djw1981]

Currently iiRc the Megabus run a bus in from Edin and Glas to broxden and then a bus out to Inverness and aberdeen a few mins later, thus allowing sensible interchamge. If some sensibe platforming at Perth is used, then Glasgow-Perth train could be cross platform from Edinburgh-Inverness.

 

[Failed Unit]

Currently iiRc the Megabus run a bus in from Edin and Glas to broxden and then a bus out to Inverness and aberdeen a few mins later, thus allowing sensible interchamge. If some sensibe platforming at Perth is used, then Glasgow-Perth train could be cross platform from Edinburgh-Inverness.

Or even join / split at certain times.

 

[me123]

If some sensibe platforming at Perth is used, then Glasgow-Perth train could be cross platform from Edinburgh-Inverness.

But timetabling is going to have to accommodate the very restricted capacity over the Forth Bridge and the busy approaches to Queen Street. So they could be very restricted in this endeavour (although with a potentially half-hourly Glasgow-Perth train, any waiting around would be negligible anyway I reckon).

 

[rail-britain]

good luck finding paths for an Open Access operator on the single track Highland Main Line sections

Perhaps you missed the mention of the revised service between Edinburgh and Inverness, with 1 train per hour
Work is due to commence shortly on adding two further dynamic loops and some additional trackwork and signalling on the dual track section, for completion for the next ScotRail franchise

 

[TheBigD]

Perhaps you missed the mention of the revised service between Edinburgh and Inverness, with 1 train per hour
Work is due to commence shortly on adding two further dynamic loops and some additional trackwork and signalling on the dual track section, for completion for the next ScotRail franchise

Any ideas where the loops are going to be please?
Any reductions in journey time?
Any links for this please?

Cheers!

 

[rail-britain]

So, will Springburn services remain in addition to the Cumbernauld services?

Can you specify the route a bit further
The existing Glasgow QS - Springburn - Cumbernauld - Falkirk G is simply rerouted to avoid Springburn and is via High Street

The idea is that this removes the Cumbernauld services crossing the line at Cowlairs, often incurring delays, and offers passengers between Gartcosh and Stepps an easier change at High Street to Airdrie and Livingston
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Any ideas where the loops are going to be please?

Details are on the Network Rail website

Any reductions in journey time?

In most cases, yes
Basically, every second service will operate express between Inverness and Perth, calling at Aviemore only, but leaving Inverness about 15 minutes later or arriving 15 minutes earlier, thus the arrival and departure times in Edinburgh are almost the same minutes past the hour

However, the side effect is that the express service will be held en-route at Dalwhinnie for about 10 minutes (but not officially stopping)
Thus if the northbound service is late then it can proceed to Blair Atholl
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But timetabling is going to have to accommodate the the busy approaches to Queen Street

Not really an issue...
The Cumbernauld / Falkirk G service stops using Glasgow QS, freeing up two paths for Edinburgh services
The existing Dunblane simply swaps to Alloa
Overall, no change

I agree that Forth Bridge is an issue, but apparently this has been checked and this is one of the reasons why two of the Inverness services will be routed via Stirling instead (one of those is the existing East Coast service)

 

[me123]

Can you specify the route a bit further
The existing Glasgow QS - Springburn - Cumbernauld - Falkirk G is simply rerouted to avoid Springburn and is via High Street

The idea is that this removes the Cumbernauld services crossing the line at Cowlairs, often incurring delays, and offers passengers between Gartcosh and Stepps an easier change at High Street to Airdrie and Livingston

OK, so Cumbernauld services are now avoiding Springburn and running through to Glasgow Queen Street Low Level and, presumably, Charing Cross before turning back at Kelvinhaugh. Am I right? If so, what will happen to the existing Dalmuir to Springburn services? Will they continue as they are, or will services to Springburn cease?

 

[Nightrider]

Take it the Darnick St Loop on the Cumbernauld Line is well in the future.
Must be at least a 150 plus feet gap in height between the two crossing lines.
Should be an interest piece of construction work.

 

[rail-britain]

OK, so Cumbernauld services are now avoiding Springburn and running through to Glasgow Queen Street Low Level and, presumably, Charing Cross before turning back at Kelvinhaugh. Am I right? If so, what will happen to the existing Dalmuir to Springburn services? Will they continue as they are, or will services to Springburn cease?

See :
http://transportscotland.gov.uk/strategy-and-research/publications-and-consultations/j8123b-09.htm
Quite a bit of this has been changed and amended recently, can't find the latest copy online