Edinburgh Gateway - A White Elephant ?

[Clansman]

People complain when stations aren't built, then complain when they are. Edinburgh Gateway was never going to win.

 

[overthewater]

People complain when stations aren't built, then complain when they are. Edinburgh Gateway was never going to win.

This is not like the new Borders railway etc this was a badly thought out idea built out stupidity ie politics

 

[najaB]

... it force (sic) people who would have gotten off at South Gyle to get off her (sic) to get to their work.

It takes less than 15 minutes to walk between the two, not like it's the end of the world.

 

[najaB]

...this was a badly thought out idea built out stupidity...

My understanding is that there are several thousand new jobs expected to be created in the local area over the next few years. Let's have this discussion again in five or six years.

 

[overthewater]

My understanding is that there are several thousand new jobs expected to be created in the local area over the next few years. Let's have this discussion again in five or six years.

There already a train station.

 

[najaB]

There already a train station.

Not on the Fife line though.

 

[InOban]

Not on the Fife line though.

Don't understand. They have plans to develop the whole area occupied by the now-closed runway, reaching almost the way to Gateway.

South Gyle has limitations, it's in the middle of a residential area, it's almost as far from the office area as EG, it would be almost impossible to expand into an accessible station with longer platforms.

 

[overthewater]

Not on the Fife line though.

I have to ask Where is this Development?

 

[Clansman]

This is not like the new Borders railway etc this was a badly thought out idea built out stupidity ie politics

And how was the Border's railway politically perceived prior to its success? Politics can be a funny old game in the rail industry.

There's no denying Gateway's under-usage in comparison to expectation, but in a time when electrification is rolling up the line, business development around the area starting to take shape, and the Dalmeny Chord no doubt an incoming addition to the network soon enough in the near future which would connect Edinburgh Airportwith the majority of the central belt, hopefully we'll see Gateway live up to its purpose soon enough.

The station has been funded, built, and is now up and running and set for the future... what's not to like just now?

If there's anything to be disappointed at about Gateway its the fact that the Dalmeny Chord was pulled, which has no doubt hit any positive expectations right in the face.

 

[najaB]

Don't understand. They have plans to develop the whole area occupied by the now-closed runway, reachimost the way to Gateway

You've understood. The point I was making is that South Gyle is badly placed to serve the upcoming development. You've made it better though.

 

[Stopper]

There’s absolutely no doubt that Edinburgh Gateway has a lot of flaws and has been overengineered and put together without thought. I don’t think anybody can possibly deny this.

A lot of people may say that the concourse/station building was overengineered to ‘future-proof’. However I don’t really agree with that as despite the future developments around the station, I can never see it needing the massive concourse it currently has, which has always been like a ghost house whenever I have been there.

The biggest gripe I have is the lack of promotion of the train-tram through ticketing. Everything about Gateway seems forced. Stopping most of the big inter-city services there (Inverness, Perth, Dundee trains) seems like they are trying to force usage on the station, when infact on these services, Gateway is rarely ever used. As someone above said, Gateway only hs a decent amount of passengers because South Gyle’s users have been spread.

Possibly, in the future, Aberdeen and Glasgow (via a possible Almond chord) services will call there, but I don’t really see a need for either to do so.

I know the station is new, but all of the above are currently very valid points, which ScotRail’s endless defenders need to consider. We’re not talking about a basic built station here, we’re talking about a very expensive interchange station. People have the right to criticise.

 

[najaB]

Stopping most of the big inter-city services there (Inverness, Perth, Dundee trains)...

I can only speak to the Dundee services, but they are stoppers anyway.

 

[Stopper]

I can only speak to the Dundee services, but they are stoppers anyway.

They are semi-fasts, which I rarely travel on, so I cannot comment on the usage. However, as a fairly regular traveller to Inverness (for family), I can confirm that there has only been one occasion that I can remember a passenger getting on or off at Gateway on Perth/Inverness services, barring myself, as I did so once. It’s an eerily quiet station.

 

[najaB]

I can confirm that there has only been one occasion that I can remember a passenger getting on or off at Gateway on Perth/Inverness services, barring myself, as I did so once. It’s an eerily quiet station.

The last time I alighted there I was one of two, the last time I boarded I was one of three. So it does get *some* usage.

 

[47271]

I go through it all the time on both Inverness and Perth trains and generally there's and handful of passengers boarding or alighting, but nothing like enough to justify the lavish facilities provided.

Regardless of future development in the area, I wish that someone - whether they're from Transport Scotland, Scotrail, Transport for Edinburgh or even Edinburgh Airport - who really knows what's going on with the utterly hopeless overpriced ticketing and non existent promotion of this station and its tram connection would post an explanation on here. It's so bad that you can't help but think that someone in a position of influence somewhere doesn't want Gateway to succeed.

 

[Stopper]

I’d much rather the station was at the Turnhouse site, but that’s not happening now. I’d also much rather the station was named something along the lines of ‘Edinburgh Airport Parkway’. I don’t think people should underestimate the importance of having the word ‘Airport’ in the name. People who don’t have a clue about rail travel can look at Edinburgh Gateway on the map and hve absolutely no clue it’s for the Airport, and combining that with the awful promotion of the station, it can’t be of any benefit to the station.

Luton Airport isn’t much busier than Edinburgh Airport, yet it’s Parkway station is around 20 times busier. Edinburgh Airport is also busier than Birmingham and Southampton Airports which also have far far busier rail stations linked with the airports there.

The main difference is that all of these stations have a far greater service to a variety of destinations. Currently there isn’t a lot of scope to increase service at Gateway. All you can really do is call the Aberdeen services and possibly push for VTEC and XC to call there, as I’m pretty sure the platforms are compatible with all of these operators. The usage has been reported as not too great on any of the current Inter-City services though, so I’m not sure whether adding a few more would even be the wisest move.

The Almond chord, if pushed through with, would certainly benefit Gateway, but I’m not sure what services would call there. Possible links to Falkirk, Stirling, Glasgow, Linlithgow, Croy (Cumbernauld) etc. Unlikely the VTEC Chieftain would be diverted that way, let alone call there. The Dunblanes would probably call there, but I don’t know if the Glasgow shuttles would. Even if they did, it’s unlikely all 4tph would do so.

 

[najaB]

Unlikely the VTEC Chieftain would be diverted that way, let alone call there.

I could see that happening. It doesn't call at Edinburgh Park so it's not like they would be losing a call. If there's high-quality jobs going in to the development area I could see all the EC trains calling to provide a non-stop London service.

 

[swaldman]

I’d much rather the station was at the Turnhouse site, but that’s not happening now. I’d also much rather the station was named something along the lines of ‘Edinburgh Airport Parkway’. I don’t think people should underestimate the importance of having the word ‘Airport’ in the name. People who don’t have a clue about rail travel can look at Edinburgh Gateway on the map and hve absolutely no clue it’s for the Airport, and combining that with the awful promotion of the station, it can’t be of any benefit to the station.

Yep. There's no way to know that this station is anything to do with the airport...and in most senses, it isn't. If I lived in Edinburgh, why would I catch a train to Gateway and then a tram to the airport, when I could just get a more frequent bus or tram in the first place for less money? The only benefit would seem to be for people coming from the north, where it saves them a bit of time compared to changing at Haymarket.

 

[najaB]

If I lived in Edinburgh, why would I catch a train to Gateway and then a tram to the airport...

You wouldn't.

The only benefit would seem to be for people coming from the north, where it saves them a bit of time compared to changing at Haymarket.

And for people coming from south of Edinburgh on services that continue north.

 

[swaldman]

You wouldn't.

And for people coming from south of Edinburgh on services that continue north.

Are there any of those, except for VTEC? (which AFAIR don't stop at Gateway?)
Regardless, it still makes little difference for them to change at Haymarket rather than Gateway, even if they knew that Gateway was an option. It's not as though there's an actual airport station that they could get to and have "arrived".

 

[najaB]

Are there any of those, except for VTEC? (which AFAIR don't stop at Gateway?)

There's the XC services as well. And Borders to Fife services.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Edinburgh Gateway is very handy for the Marriot, which is more than can be said for South Gyle

 

[takno]

I’d much rather the station was at the Turnhouse site, but that’s not happening now. I’d also much rather the station was named something along the lines of ‘Edinburgh Airport Parkway’. I don’t think people should underestimate the importance of having the word ‘Airport’ in the name. People who don’t have a clue about rail travel can look at Edinburgh Gateway on the map and hve absolutely no clue it’s for the Airport, and combining that with the awful promotion of the station, it can’t be of any benefit to the station.

Completely agree. If you publicised it as the way to the airport from up North, and got the Almond Chord open so it was the logical airport for a lot of people the west of Glasgow then things would look very different.

 

[Stopper]

Completely agree. If you publicised it as the way to the airport from up North, and got the Almond Chord open so it was the logical airport for a lot of people the west of Glasgow then things would look very different.

The only thing about the Almond chord is what trains would call there?

If the 4tph Glasgow shuttles were sent via Gateway, I very much doubt they’d want to slow down all 4 to call there, probably 2tph max.

That would probably mean the Dunblane and the Cumbernauld services would go via Newbridge. Unless 2tph of the Glasgow shuttles were still sent via Park, which would probably mean the Dunblanes could be sent via Gateway to call there, providing a Stirling link.

There are so many things wrong about Gateway currently.

 

[najaB]

The only thing about the Almond chord is what trains would call there?

After the Chord opens the calling pattern might be 2tph Glasgow shuttle services, 1tph of Fife to Borders, 1tph Fife Circle and 1tph of Dundee semi-fast.

 

[Stopper]

After the Chord opens the calling pattern might be 2tph Glasgow shuttle services, 1tph of Fife to Borders, 1tph Fife Circle and 1tph of Dundee semi-fast.

And 1tph Perth I’d assume. I’m not sure where Gateway stands in terms of Inverness HST services though.

 

[najaB]

I’m not sure where Gateway stands in terms of Inverness HST services though.

I'd expect the Perth trains to pick up the call from the Inverness services. If it's timetabled to leave Edinburgh 20 minutes or so ahead of the Inverness service it should be a simple connection to make.

 

[PaulLothian]

I have to ask Where is this Development?

According to the Edinburgh Local Development Plan (2016) the development area will be quite extensive (on both sides of the railway line) and includes all the area south of the airport facilities as far as Newbridge Junction. Also shows the tram extension to Newbridge which would hopefully knit it all together. Copy of map from the plan is attached for reference.

 

[overthewater]

I dont think that whole area will get redevelopment, and also there no chance in hell that trams going to newbridge within the next ten years, there still have even finish the phrase 1 or 1a.

Gateway its just weird.

 

[Stopper]

I dont think that whole area will get redevelopment, and also there no chance in hell that trams going to newbridge within the next ten years, there still have even finish the phrase 1 or 1a.

Gateway its just weird.

There are so many obvious flaws with it that it’s hard to believe it was ever given the go-ahead.

It’s good to see an actual good discussion about Gateway recently rather than ScotRail’s endless defenders demanding that there is nothing wrong with it as usual.