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Edinburgh Gateway - A White Elephant ?
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Butts
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There is no fine, I have undertaken the above journey on foot both ways loads of times.
If you only have hand luggage and the weather is favourable it takes about 15 mins - piece of p...
You have to walk round a "no pedestrians" sign that's been put across the pavement at the P&R, but apart from that it's literally pavement all the way. The access road is getting busier and busier so you couldn't exactly call it a stroll in the country, but it's perfectly reasonable.
Have to wonder what services would call at Gateway post-Almond chord. I think a lot of the usage today at Edinburgh Park is along the A-B, given that Park’s numbers practically doubled in a few years after it’s opening. That suggests there may be a Glasgow-Edinburgh Park market which could serve Gateway via the shuttles if they went up to 6tph.
Loadings to Edinburgh Park from the SDA stations such as Stirling, Falkirk, Linlithgow, Polmont and Dunblane aren’t HUGE, but are enough to warrant at least 2tph (calling at one or the other, preferrably Park I’d assume), and the proposed Winchburgh calls mean that the Dunblanes will probably have to go that way unless there is a timetable rejig. So you’d probably have to send the Cumbernaulds that way adding another 4tph to Gateway (before any new services are considered).
It seems the main question would be whether ScotRail/TS see direct Stirling-Gateway links as necessary or not. I think they might end up sending the SDA services via Gateway as all you’re really gaining from the Cumbernaulds is Linlithgow/Polmont/some Falkirk commuters to the business park. Whereas from the SDAs you’re ‘linking’ another City to the Airport as well as commuters from Falkirk/Larbert/Stirling/Dunblane/Alloa.
Loadings to Edinburgh Park from the SDA stations such as Stirling, Falkirk, Linlithgow, Polmont and Dunblane aren’t HUGE, but are enough to warrant at least 2tph (calling at one or the other, preferrably Park I’d assume), and the proposed Winchburgh calls mean that the Dunblanes will probably have to go that way unless there is a timetable rejig. So you’d probably have to send the Cumbernaulds that way adding another 4tph to Gateway (before any new services are considered).
It seems the main question would be whether ScotRail/TS see direct Stirling-Gateway links as necessary or not. I think they might end up sending the SDA services via Gateway as all you’re really gaining from the Cumbernaulds is Linlithgow/Polmont/some Falkirk commuters to the business park. Whereas from the SDAs you’re ‘linking’ another City to the Airport as well as commuters from Falkirk/Larbert/Stirling/Dunblane/Alloa.
NotATrainspott
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Essentially the same Airport link is available at both Gateway and Park stations. Therefore I don't see one being picked over the other for that reason. It'll probably just come down to timetabling - the Fife lines might not be as busy but they're not exactly empty. The great thing about the Almond Chord is that it will have a grade-separated junction at either end (with a flat junction in the middle for the rarely-used link up to the Forth Bridge) so it'll be easy to timetable around the rest of the rail network.
I thought the Dalmeny chord link was axed?
Postponed indefinitely.
Can they not run trains in the direction of Edinburgh with the existing line? I know they can run them to Fife. I’m guessing as it has speed limintations this is why they don’t run more trains on this line?
No, the current junction layout only lets trains run from Fife to Glasgow (and vv). Edinburgh to Glasgow requires a reversal.
Why would you need to connect Stirling to Edinburgh Gateway? The tram, walk to the businesses in the Gyle and the RBS Gogarburn shuttle bus are all available at Edinburgh Park. I can’t see anything that you’d realistically want to do around there that you can’t do at Park. For the odd person going to Fife, Haymarket offers much better interchange. Agree on the point about there probably being hidden demand for Bishopbriggs -Croy to Gyle area services. Will be interesting to see if the new Cumbernauld service unlocks any of that. Once Robroyston is open that’ll serve some of that demand as well
You can say the same for every E-G and SDA stations. You can do everything at Park (and probably more) than you can do at Gateway. However Park won’t be retaining its 8tph frequency post-Almond chord, it’s likely that one of the Stirlings or the Cumbernaulds (if they even still exist) will be sent via Gateway along with some shuttles. So the decision will have to be made, however pathing and journey times will dictate a lot of this.
Airports make money on car parking. They don’t really want people using the train/tram/bus.
Of course, that ignores the benefits of more people through the door. Might be interesting to see what happens with GARL. I wonder if that changes views
Of course, that ignores the benefits of more people through the door. Might be interesting to see what happens with GARL. I wonder if that changes views
Well, they make money leasing the land to parking companies since they don't care about the noise or congestion, unlike other potential users.
Woah! Is that back from the dead?
tbtc
Veteran Member
I see Gateway as doing well over the first decade of operation - some stations are built for demand that's already there, some are built for demand yet to come - in another few years we'll see more housing squeezed in to the fringes of Edinburgh, which will have a big impact on demand around Gateway.
Maybe it was built too soon, but you could also argue that it should have been built to open when the tram did, so that connections were ready from day one of tram operation.
I used it in the summer - we were the only ones on the platform (and this was during the Festival, when everything in/around Edinburgh feels twice as busy as normal), but it'll come good - it obviously wasn't designed just to meet current demand - it's there for the 2020s and 2030s.
I'm glad someone on this thread is remembering Fife!
Whilst the electrification fairy waves her magic wand at much of the rest of the central belt, Fife's ScotRail services are keeping their 1980s/1990s trains (now with added 1970s ones too).
But not only this - the apparent need for more Glasgow/ Stirlingshire services into Edinburgh will mean squeezing them onto the line through Gateway/ South Gyle, getting in the way of Fife services.
ETA: Happy Two Year Anniversary!
Maybe it was built too soon, but you could also argue that it should have been built to open when the tram did, so that connections were ready from day one of tram operation.
I used it in the summer - we were the only ones on the platform (and this was during the Festival, when everything in/around Edinburgh feels twice as busy as normal), but it'll come good - it obviously wasn't designed just to meet current demand - it's there for the 2020s and 2030s.
I'm glad someone on this thread is remembering Fife!
Whilst the electrification fairy waves her magic wand at much of the rest of the central belt, Fife's ScotRail services are keeping their 1980s/1990s trains (now with added 1970s ones too).
But not only this - the apparent need for more Glasgow/ Stirlingshire services into Edinburgh will mean squeezing them onto the line through Gateway/ South Gyle, getting in the way of Fife services.
ETA: Happy Two Year Anniversary!
coppercapped
Established Member
In the case of Heathrow - I know that is not in Scotland but sweeping statements tend to be very wrong - there are very strong pressures on it to reduce the use of private transport to reach the airport.
You can thank 1880's bridge design for that one, unfortunately.
Indeed there are. And airports will probably adapt by leasing the land to industries that take advantage of the connectivity - package freight and high-value, low mass manufacturers (e.g. aerospace).
The thing about using the Almond Chord is that there’s only around 7-8tph that use the North lines at Haymarket. There’s currently at least 14tph, sometimes up to 16/17tph that use the South lines. Obviously as we know this results in a lot of South lines services using the North lines and crossing over after Haymarket. The Almond chord could take around 4-6tph from that and balance it a bit more. It’s not really about taking away from the Fife passengers as the problem with capacity there is the Forth Bridge and the fact that fast services catch up to slow services etc. The Glasgow/Stirling trains would only be going between Haymarket and Dalmeny Jn with electrification and grade separation. You’re unlikely to get much else over the Forth Bridge anyway before electrification which still looks a bit unclear in terms of Fife.
Exactly this. There isn’t much room for anything else over the bridge without electrifying it which obviously has issues. Fife would probably be next on the agenda alongside EK and Kilmarnock if it wasn’t for it. Until there is a solution for it then all that can be done is increasing capacity on all services possible, which the HSTs on Inverness/Aberdeen services are helping. Get all Fife Circle and Dundee/Arbroath/Perth services doubled up in the peak times if possible.
With electrification and grade separation at Dalmeny, I think at least another 4tph can go via the Almond chord.
There is pedestrian access to Ingliston P&R, but you have to walk right round the P&R. To the main round about. What I notice most people with hand baggage is walking along the entrance/exit where the buses come in and out (the green coloured apsault: https://www.google.com/maps/@55.9386649,-3.3574346,502m/data=!3m1!1e3 ). There is no paving area here and technically, people aren't supposed to walk here, but tend to walk on the grass by the kerb. Obviously if the weather is bad, you're better off going around the official paved "long route"
Perhaps they could repurpose the old Forth Road Bridge for rail transport.
TBH usage seems decent considering its sited and built for the eventual demand once the combined developments around Ingliston, Gogar, Gateway and the former runway are completed in the mid 2030s. It'll be interesting to see if ultimately it turns out the station is undersized..
Maybe they'll be a case for EARL - redux edition.
Please let it be better than the original proposal - junctions in tunnels indeed.
It’s sized for a 9 car HST or 10 car Voyager, isn’t it? Doubt it’ll ever be too small, either in platform or circulation space, especially compared to places like Edinburgh Park
NotATrainspott
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The platforms are 265m long so that 10-car Class 800 trains can call.
47271
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I got stuck at Gateway for around 45 minutes last night thanks to Scotrail cancelling the 1739 Edinburgh-Inverness.
The northbound side was really quite steady with passengers at that time, but it was notable that nearly all of them arrived on foot from the direction of the Gyle. Tram volumes were pitiful, probably about six or seven people arriving from the Airport - and I was one of them.
I had tried to buy a through ticket at the Airport but the rail ticket machine (which is almost impossible to find, it's certainly nowhere near the exit to the tram) was out of order. So £6 for a three minute tram ride, and then another ticket for the train. I'm still convinced that someone somewhere wants Gateway to fail as an Airport station.
One final plus - it's set up well to handle rail replacement buses. That was a good job last night...
The northbound side was really quite steady with passengers at that time, but it was notable that nearly all of them arrived on foot from the direction of the Gyle. Tram volumes were pitiful, probably about six or seven people arriving from the Airport - and I was one of them.
I had tried to buy a through ticket at the Airport but the rail ticket machine (which is almost impossible to find, it's certainly nowhere near the exit to the tram) was out of order. So £6 for a three minute tram ride, and then another ticket for the train. I'm still convinced that someone somewhere wants Gateway to fail as an Airport station.
One final plus - it's set up well to handle rail replacement buses. That was a good job last night...
I struggle to see any point to it as an airport station (even if it were advertised as one, which so far as I'm aware it isn't). For anybody heading into Edinburgh, or changing in Edinburgh, it makes more sense to stay on the tram or bus. For people heading to Glasgow, well, it doesn't go there (at least for now). For people heading north, it might be better than the bus from the airport for nearby destinations in Fife, but the longer-distance trains don't stop there.....
This begs the question: Was it actually intended as an airport station? Or are folk just assuming that because it's near the airport?
No, for me at least travelling from Dundee, it does not. There used to be nothing more annoying than sailing past the airport to get to Haymarket and then come all the way back to the airport. It easily added 30 to 40 minutes onto my journey.
Yes, it most definitely was. Once EARL was abandoned, Gateway became the preferred option and will make even more sense as an airport station once the Dalmeny Chord is built.
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