Edinburgh Connection

[MCR247]

Hi

I am wondering if I could make this connection:

Arrive Edinburgh: 2330 (NXEC. 1830 off Kings Cross) | Depart Edinburgh 2340 (FSR Sleeper to Euston)

I dont fancy getting the 1800 off Kings Cross, but I dont want to miss the connection .

Thanks in advance,

MCR247

 

[me123]

That is the minimum connection time, so theoretically yes.

That said, I know East Coast service timekeeping leaves a lot to be desired, and I also know that Edinburgh Waverley isn't the easiest place to change trains for a lot of people. I'd recommend catching the 1800 which would give you a safety net.

 

[MCR247]

Ok, I will bare that in mind, thanks

 

[yorkie]

But is London to London via Edinburgh a valid connection? If you were going from Berwick then I think they'd have to give you accommodation or give you a taxi to Carstairs, but I don't see how you can justify saying it's a valid connection if you are trying to get a train back to your origin!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Ok, I will bare that in mind, thanks

Don't go bare until you get in the sleeper cabin just a thought to bear in mind

 

[MCR247]

Don't go bare until you get in the sleeper cabin just a thought to bear in mind

Oops!

 

[rail-britain]

It doesn't matter what the purpose of your journey is
I have made an unusual journey, allowed the minimum connection time, and missed it due to late running
When they asked why I was making such a journey I advised them I was making a document transfer

Presumably this is a Sunday 18:30 Kings Cross - Edinburgh
What type of ticket will you be using?
If you are using a Rover then you can always say you were travelling from Dunbar, and intend travelling on the sleeper
If you miss it then you are likely to be put as standby on the Inverness portion, unless it's running so late you miss that as well!

 

[yorkie]

Sorry, couldn't resist

Another one that people often get wrong is "baited breath", not sure what they're trying to catch or what the bait is!

Anyway back on topic, I'd really recommend the 1800, but even that may be dodgy if you are booking on the sleeper as I don't think you would have any 'connectional rights' if you are doing London to London via Edinburgh? (if that is what you are doing?).

I suppose there is the highland sleeper, the Aberdeen portion is unlocked anyway for people from Fort William to board, IIRC that's about an 0130 departure. A seated reservation from e.g. Westerton would be a good idea.

 

[MCR247]

It doesn't matter what the purpose of your journey is
I have made an unusual journey, allowed the minimum connection time, and missed it due to late running
When they asked why I was making such a journey I advised them I was making a document transfer

Presumably this is a Sunday 18:30 Kings Cross - Edinburgh
What type of ticket will you be using?
If you are using a Rover then you can always say you were travelling from Dunbar, and intend travelling on the sleeper
If you miss it then you are likely to be put as standby on the Inverness portion, unless it's running so late you miss that as well!

It was going to be a Friday. But I have changed my plans now, as I cant make thw 1800

Thanks guys for the help

 

[me123]

It's a bit redundant now, but would you have "connectional rights" on a valid rover ticket? Surely that allows unlimited travel through the relevant area, so on an ALR any connection would be valid as long as you allow the 10 minutes.

 

[yorkie]

I'm really not sure if you have rights if you are doubling back for no reason other than to travel (or 'bash') a particular line/loco/whatever! I guess you can give the excuse that you are doing a document exchange () but it seems a grey area to me.

I guess it would be good if it were the case, but I'm just not sure it's at all sensible!

 

[DaveNewcastle]

sensible

? ? ?
Since when was THAT a criterion ? !

Seriously, this thread interests me because of its notion that the traveller's reason for travel is relevant - and having accepted that notion, then questioning if the reason is unusual or even perverse. The consequence is the outcome that the Terms of the contract binding the customer and TOC might be weaker if the passenger's reason is unusual or perverse.

A journey whose destination is the same as its origin IS unusual, but its very common in leisure journeys (consider circular routes on heritage lines or theme park circuits as well as regional "rovers").
A mainline traveller may contract with a TOC to make a circular journey and expect that contract to be honoured equally with their contracts between the TOC(s) and one-way travellers.
Now, its tempting to wonder if a TOC trying to avoid compensation or other redress might look for such an excuse for avoiding re-payment or whatever, but I'm aware of only a very few legal frameworks which would take the customer's reason into account :- there's the Home Office's requirements to notify suspected Money Laundering, Employment of Illegal Immigrants, etc.
But the Sale of Goods Act for example makes NO provision for considering the buyer's reason for purchase.

So - why would a passenger doing an A -> B -> A journey be disadvantaged because of their reason for making the journey?

 

[Bittern]

Waverley is hardly the easiest place to find your way around in if you don't know it well. I too would've recommend getting the 18:00.

Don't go bare until you get in the sleeper cabin just a thought to bear in mind

LMAO!

 

[90019]

If the original train in question is the one I think it is, that is always sitting in Waverley when the Sleeper leaves, then it would've just been a case of going from one side of the station to the other (Platform 2 across to 11), which would only take a couple of minutes.

 

[yorkie]

So - why would a passenger doing an A -> B -> A journey be disadvantaged because of their reason for making the journey?

Well, I was once in that situation.

I was on a HST going on the Tyne Valley to Carlisle, with a good connection to a HST going the other way. Everything seemed fine, but we got held outside for about 20 minutes. They could not let the other train out as we were on the single line section. But the instant we were cleared, it got the road, and my running over the bridge was no use as it pulled out!

The guard was also meant to go back the same way.

A Northern train had been cancelled. However nearly all passengers had been transferred to the HST.

To cut a long story short I ended up at Newcastle with no onward connection.

To be able to get home I could have said I was bashing HSTs and missed it due to mine being delayed, but I wasn't at all convinced that Newcastle to newcastle via Carlisle is a "valid connection", I'd love it if it was, but I wasn't sure. I thought they'd think I was mad! Yes, I could have used the "document transfer" excuse but I didn't think of it, and I'm not certain it would have been accepted.

So I took the easy option and said I had come from an intermediate station. I had a rover anyway. It was accepted and I got home.

So, given that my connection was valid in terms of allowing enough time, but was simply a case of going back to where I had come from, would I have been entitled to a taxi if I had admitted I was "bashing HSTs" or not?

I'd like the answer to be "yes" but I was certainly not going to allow myself to be a test case!

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Well, I was once in that situation.

. . . . . . . .

So, given that my connection was valid in terms of allowing enough time, but was simply a case of going back to where I had come from, would I have been entitled to a taxi if I had admitted I was "bashing HSTs" or not?

I'd like the answer to be "yes" but I was certainly not going to allow myself to be a test case!

An intersesting example, but we still don't know. You're still considering that your reason for travel might be relevant - but I'm not persuaded.

. . . that is always sitting in Waverley when the Sleeper leaves, then it would've just been a case of going from one side of the station to the other (Platform 2 across to 11), which would only take a couple of minutes.

If you know where you're going, and don't have wheeled baggage, and there's not a flock of lost tourists / cleaning staff / train-load of slow moving pax, then yes - go for it. (But how will you know that any of these won't apply?)

 

[90019]

If you know where you're going, and don't have wheeled baggage, and there's not a flock of lost tourists / cleaning staff / train-load of slow moving pax, then yes - go for it. (But how will you know that any of these won't apply?)

Because the station is pretty much deserted at this time.
Just after the sleeper has left, when I've been there, my car was the only one there.

 

[Bittern]

If the original train in question is the one I think it is, that is always sitting in Waverley when the Sleeper leaves, then it would've just been a case of going from one side of the station to the other (Platform 2 across to 11), which would only take a couple of minutes.

Out of nothing more than absolute curiosity, is this train that's there when the sleeper departs an HST or a 225?

 

[90019]

Out of nothing more than absolute curiosity, is this train that's there when the sleeper departs an HST or a 225?

225
Been in platform 2 every time I've been there.

 

[Failed Unit]

Hi

I am wondering if I could make this connection:

Arrive Edinburgh: 2330 (NXEC. 1830 off Kings Cross) | Depart Edinburgh 2340 (FSR Sleeper to Euston)

I dont fancy getting the 1800 off Kings Cross, but I dont want to miss the connection .

Thanks in advance,

MCR247

I know you have changed your plans but I assume that this was going to be a Friday night, if it was a Sunday the sleeper leaves at 2315....

 

[MCR247]

Yeah, it was going to be a Saturday, as the 1830 is FO, as the M-Th it terminates at Newcastle

 

[yorkie]

An intersesting example, but we still don't know. You're still considering that your reason for travel might be relevant - but I'm not persuaded.

I'm not sure it is, but when you're at the mercy of someone who is deciding whether or not you should get a taxi that is going to cost the company a few quid, to them it probably is!

I think that if you go from A to B and back to A again that probably counts as 2 journeys. I'm not sure the minimum interchange times given are usable for the purpose of combining 2 journeys like that.

You hear about connections being "held", well I've never heard of a connection where passengers are expected to go back to where they came from. I'd say that's got to be 2 journeys. The question then becomes: if you do 2 journeys like that, is the minimum interchange time applicable to be the minimum time allowed between the 2 journeys? I don't know. It would be good if it was the case, but I'm sceptical.

The reason for travel may not matter 'officially', but if you are not entitled to it, then you are relying on discretion and goodwill, and if you then can't give a reason that in their opinion is good enough, that may mean that they don't help you. And that's what I wasn't going to risk.

 

[caughtonatrain]

Yeah, it was going to be a Saturday, as the 1830 is FO, as the M-Th it terminates at Newcastle

No FSR sleepers on Sat nights, as far as I know?

 

[yorkie]

No FSR sleepers on Sat nights, as far as I know?

Correct, but the OP said "yeah" to the previous poster who asked was it going to be a Friday night, so I believe it must be a Friday, but with the majority of the sleeper journey taking place on the Saturday.

 

[90019]

No FSR sleepers on Sat nights, as far as I know?

Yes, the Caledonian Sleeper is Sun-Fri only, although, technically, most of the journey on the one that leaves on friday night happens on the saturday morning.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also, one thing to note is that the Sleeper has left a few minutes late every time I've been there.

 

[rail-britain]

It's a bit redundant now, but would you have "connectional rights" on a valid rover ticket? Surely that allows unlimited travel through the relevant area, so on an ALR any connection would be valid as long as you allow the 10 minutes

Providing you have reservations, then they will assist you
This is one of the things I checked when planning mine
If you don't have a reservation then the incoming TOC will decline you assistance so you need to contact the outgoing TOC and see what assistance they will offer

The scenario above is very similar to the one I used, with a 14 day 1st Class ALR
Glasgow - Euston VT
Euston - Glasgow FSR
If the Glasgow VT service is delayed 20 minutes and misses the Glasgow sleeper, what happens...
VT would put you up in a hotel AND make you a reservation on the first suitable service in the morning
However, you MUST discuss with the Train Manager on the Glasgow VT service before getting off the train and make them aware of the missed connection

I nearly had one during my recent ALR, it was a VT to NXEC connection, and VT would have been liable
The Train Manager phoned Haymarket to ask if they would hold the train but they declined
I was advised to see if we would make the connection, if not then stay on to Waverley and proceed from there

The other missed connection I nearly had was when Euston services were being terminated at Milton Keynes, at the time delays were between 30 and 90 minutes
I contacted FSR and asked them for advice
Thankfully it was the Fort William service so had them put an advisory on my reservation that I may board at Crewe instead of Euston
I had 60 minutes between services at Euston, but when I passed Crewe services were still showing as severely delayed, however by the time mine got to Milton Keynes there was no delay...