ECML Shortlist

[Daniel]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6378159.stm

Four in East Coast rail shortlist

GNER East Coast main line



The shortlist for the new operator of the UK's East Coast Mainline train service has been announced by the Department for Transport.

Bids by Arriva Trains, First Rail, National Express Group have progressed to the next stage.

A proposal by Intercity-Railways, a joint venture between Stagecoach and Virgin, has also made the shortlist.

GNER, currently operating the line under a short term management deal, would not say if it had made a bid.

But it insisted it remained in "active discussions" with the shortlisted groups, and hoped to continue to be involved in operating the line through a partnership.

Surrendered

GNER won a 10-year franchise in March 2005, but it has faced financial woes since the London bombings, as passenger numbers dipped, power prices rose and Network Rail's compensation payments declined.

This coincided with financial problems at its parent company Sea Containers.

It surrendered the franchise, as it would not have been able to meet its terms which involved paying hundreds of millions of pounds to the government.

It is now operating the franchise on an agreed 18-month management contract.

The new East Coast franchise will run for a maximum of seven years and five months, with the final 17 months depending on the operator hitting performance targets.

The winning company must keep existing services as well as a regular half-hourly service between London and Leeds.

The operator is also expected to put in a "smart ticketing" system across the franchise area.

The East Coast Mainline runs from London to Scotland with stops including Doncaster, Newcastle and Edinburgh.

Picture:

 

[Guinness]

Arriva - I don't think they're capable of running a Mainline Franchise, no past experience. The only bonus to them is if they keep the current GNER Brand / Part of Management.

First - Monopoly on Travel. I wouldn't think they would be favourites after cocking up with FGW, although it's partly DfT to blame. Obcessed with Money more than Passengers.

NatEx - Mixed feelings. Dodgy management leads to companies such as Central Trains. Brilliant management leads to companies such as Midland Mainline, Best Long Distance TOC for 2 years (IIRC).

Virgin - Major Success with 2 other Long Distance Franchises, mega growth in passengers. Perhaps a few problems here and there but still a good company.

I think is Virgin or NatEx to the get the nod.

 

[Daniel]

I'd like to see NatEx win it - perhaps we'd see some discount tickets on HST round trips, with both MML and the ECML serving York...

 

[Donny Dave]

I can't see Virgin getting the ECML, as this would give them a monopoly on the anglo - scottish traffic. Also, it's highly doubtful that First will win either, as this will give them too much of the network to run, and face it, look at the problems they are having with FGW currently.

That leaves Arriva or Nat-Ex. My money is on the latter....

 

[Guinness]

I can't see Virgin getting the ECML,

I think that's why they're bidding under Intercity-Railways or something like that...

 

[Donny Dave]

Ok, just to re-phrase myself to make it perfectly clear, I cannot see any bid which Virgin is involved with succeeding, as this would give Virgin a monopoly on the Anglo-Scottish routes.

 

[Guinness]

Ok, just to re-phrase myself to make it perfectly clear, I cannot see any bid which Virgin is involved with succeeding, as this would give Virgin a monopoly on the Anglo-Scottish routes.

True, buy perhaps if the 51% was Stagecoach competition rules change?

 

[theblackwatch]

That leaves Arriva or Nat-Ex. My money is on the latter....

Just seen 'Look North' and Alan Whitehouse (Trasport Correspondent, and someone who is actually interested in railways) speculated on Arriva, with the management team from GNER.

 

[Coxster]

I would personally hope for the joint venture between Virgin and Stagecoach. As Chaz says Virgin have a lot of experience by already running two successful long distance franchises, along with Stagecoach who have run the South Western franchise since the start of privatisation and have done very well with it over the years in my own personal experience. They of course have proved they can work together well as part of the Virgin franchises too. If not then I would expect National Express to be successful in being awarded with it.

 

[Techniquest]

Arriva? Not a chance...Not experienced in true IC services. If they get it I would start expecting to see 'Cancelled' and 'Delayed' on screens across the ECML much, much more than currently. Of course, announcements such as "I'm sorry to announce that the 2030 Arriva East Coast service to Leeds is delayed, by approximately 57 minutes. This is due to a shortage of servicable trains" or "I'm sorry to announce that the 2100 Arriva East Coast service to Newcastle...has been cancelled. Arriva East Coast apologise for the inconvienence caused".

Intercity-Railways? Nope, I agree with David on this one, nothing with Virgin in it will win due to monopolising the Anglo - Scottish traffic.

First? With FGW as their primary IC experience? Not a chance in hell...

Nat Ex? Not a huge fan of theirs, but they have done a better than excellent job with MML (of which I am a fan!), the only exception to that being Meridians. In my eyes, with their current record with MML they have a good chance of getting it. OK, so their performance with CT will go against them, but they seemed to do a good job with Silverlink as well (apart from a couple of delays, mainly leading to me going via alternative means to places in London, on SL Metro), so that should help.

Yes, Nat Ex is the winner in my eyes.

 

[Tom B]

First. No. No. Yuk. Just, no.

Virgin *cant* get it, for monopoly reasons.

Personally I would like to see GNER put back in place with a decent franchise agreement, but I doubt that would happen.

 

[Dennis]

Virgin *cant* get it, for monopoly reasons.

Then why are they spending a couple of million preparing bids etc and are DfT a bunch of complete w**kers leading them on?

 

[Coxster]

Then why are they spending a couple of million preparing bids etc and are DfT a bunch of complete w**kers leading them on?

That's what I was thinking. Surely if they *can't* get it then they would not have been shortlisted now. As you say they've spent a hell of a lot on their bid and I'm sure management aren't that useless...

 

[eezypeazy]

Hmm.. this is going to get interesting....

Here in the North East, GNER has an excellent reputation for quality and service. Now Arriva (with its headquarters in Sunderland) would be well placed to drum up support from local politicians for a "local trains for local people" campaign... although, based on the evidence of the last ten years, the MP for Sedgefield doesn't seem to do much for the area he's supposed to represent!

I don't think Virgin is as well regarded as GNER, (although they have to be applauded for extra trains at Morpeth); so I can't see their bid being greeted with much enthusiasm locally. And Stagecoach is still tarred by the "unfair competition" brush that was the debacle in Darlington...

Arriva actually didn't do too bad a job of running our local trains (even managing to repaint most of them, a task which seems beyond the present incumbent). I'm not a betting man, but it seems to me it will come down to a straight fight between Arriva and NEx... and I'd fancy Arriva (I can see the HSTs in turquoise with a cream swipe...)

eezypeazy

 

[Max]

Oh god, it's so hard to pick between these 'superb' train operating companies *cough*

On a more serious note, I would probably go for NEX out of that lot, they seem to do a very good job with Midland Mainline, and hopefully they could successfully keep up GNER's excellent customer friendly attitude (in most cases)

I dread to think what Arriva would do (after the torture of ATN - although it could be said that they did a better job than Northern are doing!), I don't think they have the experience needed for such a big franchise.

Personally I don't like Virgin, and I'm worried that they will see the current ECML stock as 'old and therefore bad' as they did on their other franchises, and subsequently rush into replacing it And as already mentioned, the potential monopoly on Anglo-Scottish routes (with WC, ECML and XC) would surely not allow it!

The Dft would be insane to give it to First after what they have done to GW (although I seem to remember they actually did alright with the long distance aspects before they were also given the local routes). I can't see First getting it somehow.

 

[adambro]

National Express it is then, shall I phone the DfT and tell em we've sorted it?

 

[thefab444]

Virgin as my first choice, but if NatEx could promise an MML-style management NOT one style, then I'd be pleased to see them as well.

Not First and Not Arriva, hate both of these.

 

[Daniel]

National Express it is then, shall I phone the DfT and tell em we've sorted it?

Go ahead, save a few million £'s of taxpayers money!

 

[yorkie]

Virgin as my first choice, but if NatEx could promise an MML-style management NOT one style, then I'd be pleased to see them as well.

Not First and Not Arriva, hate both of these.

Oh great. Goodbye cheap day returns and goodbye unrestricted ("8A") Savers north of Peterborough

 

[Guinness]

Oh great. Goodbye cheap day returns

MML still offer Cheap Day Returns....

 

[yorkie]

MML still offer Cheap Day Returns....

None from London!

And not too many up north either, e.g. Sheffield to Leicester isn't a CDR, neither is Bedford to Leicester.

Can you find an example of a fairly long distance CDR on MML?

The fares on MML are significantly higher than GNER for the medium distance range, where MML only sell relatively expensive Savers but GNER offer CDRs.

 

[Guinness]

None from London!

London - Luton / Luton Airport Parkway £12 Adult CDR.

 

[Max]

London - Luton / Luton Airport Parkway £12 Adult CDR.

This is set by FCC, not MML, as is London-Bedford. Beyond Bedford there are no CDRs, just Savers. Meanwhile, on GNER, there is a Newark-London CDR, far more long distance!

 

[class 313]

I'd like to see NatEx win it - perhaps we'd see some discount tickets on HST round trips, with both MML and the ECML serving York...

Well seeing as MML is going soon how could that happen?

 

[class 313]

This is set by FCC, not MML, as is London-Bedford. Beyond Bedford there are no CDRs, just Savers. Meanwhile, on GNER, there is a Newark-London CDR, far more long distance!

I got a CDR from St Albans - Loughborough...

 

[Guinness]

This is set by FCC, not MML

Still valid on MML though

 

[Daniel]

Well seeing as MML is going soon how could that happen?

Nice to see your first post in this thread is criticizing something i've said!

Midland Mainline’s franchise started in April 1996:

* Initially for a ten year period, conditional on doubling the number of services in 1999
* In 2000, Midland Mainline secured a two year extension to the franchise, which now runs until April 2008

And I for one would expect them to win the franchise again!

The level of punctuality achieved for the three month period is one of the best ever seen by the company. March saw the company break its all time monthly record, with a figure of 97.9%. This was not only a record for Midland Mainline but for the whole of the rail industry since records began in 1998.

Midland Mainline is celebrating after being announced as part of the winning Transport Team of the Year at the London Transport Awards.

Midland Mainline’s new fleet of Meridian Trains picked up one of the top awards at a prestigious national event held in London last night.

Rail passengers have ranked Midland Mainline as the UK’s most customer friendly long distance train operator, according to independent research released today.

The National Rail Trends, published today by the Office of Rail Regulation (ORR) show Midland Mainline as the best performing long distance train operator in the UK for the ninth consecutive month. Midland Mainline has maintained its position at the top of the league by improving its punctuality figures by 8% year on year and is now running at 93.5% punctuality. This means that more than nine out of every ten trains are reaching their destination on time.

All this praise isn't for nothing, and im sure the DfT will take them all into consideration when the franchise comes up for renewal. Read through this thread, Class 313, even enthusiasts have praised MML... (excluding Yorkie )... and my point is with both franchises under one manager we may see some cheaper tickets linking the two! I don't see why you'd want to argue with that.. who would want more expensive tickets!? (Other than the managers..)

 

[yorkie]

Memorex - We won't see cheaper tickets with MML - that's not their policy. The stuff you posted is quotes from MML calling themselves the bees knees, well what do you expect?

Chaz - yes, it's valid on MML but that is beside the point which is that MML have an anti-CDR policy.

The fact remains that, for walk on fares, MML are very expensive especially prior to 9am. If such a policy was implemented on GNER it would be a stealth pay rise. The cost of journeys such as York-Doncaster, Newcastle-Peterborough, etc before 9am would increase MASSIVELY. MML implemented their draconian anti-Saver policy a few years ago, and FGW did the same last year. Such policies are totally unfair and are fare rises through the back door.

I am totally and utterly opposed to any company that engages in such practices.

 

[Guinness]

Memorex - We won't see cheaper tickets with MML - that's not their policy. The stuff you posted is quotes from MML calling themselves the bees knees, well what do you expect?

Cheapest Fares? £6 one way from Derby to St Pancras with an Adult. Of course booking in advance. I'm pretty sure that's cheap.

Walk-On fares for any TOC are completely extortionate anyway, whether it would be GNER, MML, Northern or any TOC...

Voted Best Long Distance Operator last year, so what do think MML are going to put on there website, "Don't travel by Train, we're have an "Anti-CDR" policy"?

GNER had an anti-rover policy but that went out the window didn't it?

 

[adambro]

I like Virgin as they have some great deals on advance fares, are nice about allowing YP discounts and relaxed about saver restrictions. If they could take this over into the Intercity East Coast franchise, I would certainly be happy to see them but as others have mentioned, the monopoly aspect might give them a problem.