ECML - OHLE problems at Stevenage (17 & 18th December)

[transmanche]

Eventually got home at 3am after staying behind past my rostered hours to assist with the disruption.

Good commitment there - well done!

 

[Robsignals]

And as for the third rail... just you wait until we get some properly wintry weather again. The 1048 departure from Redhill to London Victoria (originating South of Horsham) was supposedly delayed by 198 minutes last Wednesday due to a very small quantity of freezing rain on the rails at Christs Hospital. And there are countless other examples, many of which are worse, each year!

Properly freezing weather is easier in some ways, last week it was raining heavily before snowing which must have washed off the de-icing fluid, also was the middle of the night so no trains running to clear the conductor rail. Wonder how fitting heating strip is progressing? I was looking at the south end of Horsham station a few weeks ago (from outside the fence) and it looked like all the running lines were fitted. Even with the few days of disruption in recent years I believe 3rd rail is significantly more reliable than OHLE, problem is the whole London & SE area stops thus attracting more attention than isolated disruptions round the country happening all the time, especially when 'the people that run the country' are delayed!

 

[jon0844]

The ECML is not a benchmark to measure OHLE against. It serves as an example to ensure that all new electrification projects are not done the same way!

 

[philjo]

There was an interview with Robin Gisby from Network Rail on the BBC Look East programme (BBC1 18:30) last night. The hitchin problems were the first item in the programme so if you look on the BBC iplayer it will be after the opening headlines.

He admitted that NR thought they had repaired the OHLE on monday night but it failed again within 30 minutes of trains running again on Tuesday. He also admitted that the OHLE at Hitchin is old infrastucture (as was originally installed in 1970s) so not the best design and they currently only get 3-4 hours maintenance time on a Saturday night but the flyover would give them more flexibility for more maintenance on the junction in future.

FCC running a fairly normal service this morning though some short formed trains (including the 07:15 from Cambridge running as 4 instead of 12 coaches)

 

[dk1]

ITVs Anglia Tonight also interviewed Robin Gisby & even after he appologised & accepted it was NRs fault several times they still trawlled out "do you realise these passengers pay out thousands of £s a year for season tickets", well doh no sugar sherlock. What did they want from him ...blood!!!

 

[elementalpat]

Hopefully this will be investigated fully, but I doubt the travelling public will be informed about the full list of facts.

I speculate that NR worked furiously through the night to get it fixed, but may have been under pressure to open for the morning service. As a result, maybe testing was not done properly and as a result, one train through and blackout again!

 

[Aictos]

Good commitment there - well done!

Thanks, might have taken longer but least passengers were getting home

 

[tsr]

It appears a train has broken down at Alexandra Palace - 1S15 1130 London Kings Cross - Edinburgh was last reported there at 1136 and no further reports have been made. It's just shown up on the NRE website with provisional delays of up to 15mins. It does look like trains are getting through the area quite well at this stage. 1D12 1135 London Kings Cross - Leeds is around 18 or so down at St Neots, having been rerouted onto the Slows at Ally Pally.

EDIT: It looks like 1S15 suffered brake problems, but it has been moved and at 1300 all lines opened. Or so I am told. Hopefully I'm not wrong!

 

[321001]

The ECML is not a benchmark to measure OHLE against. It serves as an example to ensure that all new electrification projects are not done the same way!

It's time Network Rail come out with plans to replace all of the problem OHLE on the East Coast line (all of it )

The cost to the railway companies,passengers and to the economy of all these failures over the years must be huge.

 

[jon0844]

I don't think it was that bad this year... at least not relating to wires coming down. Lots of signalling-related issues and more train faults, from the reports I could see on disruption.

Perhaps that's what jinxed things!

 

[GB]

It's time Network Rail come out with plans to replace all of the problem OHLE on the East Coast line (all of it )

The cost to the railway companies,passengers and to the economy of all these failures over the years must be huge.

I imagine the government would need to stump up the cash for it. I doubt a complete OLE renewal of the ECML is in NRs budget.

 

[jon0844]

There was an awful lot of work done 3 or 4 years ago, at least on the southern section (from WGC at least, possibly further north?).

I remember it well because it was when I was quite regularly using my season ticket to go into London at weekends and for two years in a row, almost six months had no services at weekends due to this upgrade work.

 

[D365]

Huntingdon-Peterborough is being rewired alongside the four tracking, over CP5.

 

[SPADTrap]

There was an awful lot of work done 3 or 4 years ago, at least on the southern section (from WGC at least, possibly further north?).

I remember it well because it was when I was quite regularly using my season ticket to go into London at weekends and for two years in a row, almost six months had no services at weekends due to this upgrade work.

Ahh I remember this. So many nights would there be 66s sitting overnight on the viaduct and on the approach ticking over. (I live pretty much opposite Welwyn North) I got used to going to sleep to the sound of them! Always pictured the drivers sitting in there with a cuppa watching a portable tv...not sure the reality was quite that though!

 

[Goatboy]

Shouldn't we be making sure our existing OHLE is fit for purpose before blowing billions on new electrification projects? This sort of problem doesn't quite happen with the diesels they wish to replace..

 

[Bald Rick]

I imagine the government would need to stump up the cash for it. I doubt a complete OLE renewal of the ECML is in NRs budget.

It isn't! But then renewing the complete OLE system is horrifically expensive and disruptive, as the good folk who live on the GEML have found out.

Campaign replacement of certain components in the system is much easier and delivers most of the benefit. This has been done on the MML over the last few years, and parts of the ECML too.

Having said that, the OLE in Gasworks tunnel is being renewed next week. Guess you have to start somewhere.

 

[Robsignals]

The ECML is not a benchmark to measure OHLE against. It serves as an example to ensure that all new electrification projects are not done the same way!

OHL line problems are often reported all over the network. A broken pantograph will potentially do serious damage to the most modern OHL kit as will wind blown debris, problems that 3rd rail is immune to. Of course if a train loses all shoes it won't get far but as soon as it's been cleared away normal service can resume as the 3rd rail is most unlikely to have been damaged.
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ITVs Anglia Tonight also interviewed Robin Gisby & even after he appologised & accepted it was NRs fault several times they still trawlled out "do you realise these passengers pay out thousands of £s a year for season tickets", well doh no sugar sherlock. What did they want from him ...blood!!!

As the BBC failings show journalists expect perfection from everyone...except themselves when any old rubbish will do.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Shouldn't we be making sure our existing OHLE is fit for purpose before blowing billions on new electrification projects? This sort of problem doesn't quite happen with the diesels they wish to replace..

Or ripping up very reliable 3rd rail in favour of unreliable OHL! Heating Strip solves icing and is being installed now with out disrupting services.

 

[tsr]

OHL line problems are often reported all over the network. A broken pantograph will potentially do serious damage to the most modern OHL kit as will wind blown debris, problems that 3rd rail is immune to. Of course if a train loses all shoes it won't get far but as soon as it's been cleared away normal service can resume as the 3rd rail is most unlikely to have been damaged.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


As the BBC failings show journalists expect perfection from everyone...except themselves when any old rubbish will do.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Or ripping up very reliable 3rd rail in favour of unreliable OHL! Heating Strip solves icing and is being installed now with out disrupting services.

As someone whose journeys have been directly impacted by failings of the third rail on multiple occasions, I feel that is a slightly utopian view!

No electrification system is perfect.

I would especially like to point out that the third rail is affected by debris, including when debris is wrapped around conductor rail contact shoes, or when a power isolation/discharge may be needed to allow safe working to remove debris. I have also had the misfortune to be delayed by ice coating the third rail on many, many occasions, often causing severe delays, as well as dislodged conductor rails.

 

[Bald Rick]

As someone who has been responsible for managing OLE and 3rd rail networks, OLE is far preferable on every measure. Except wind speed.

 

[jon0844]

Or in the case of the ECML, a passenger on a nearby platform coughing.

 

[Bald Rick]

Why do you think the yellow lines are further back on the ECML?

 

[Welshman]

I thought that was in case they had a recurrence of the toilet retention tank problems of a while ago.

 

[jon0844]

They DO still have the problem with not emptying the tanks often enough! I am always amazed how people seem to think they're being sprayed with plain water and haven't considered that the plain water tanks LOSE water as people use the toilets, while the retention tanks fill up and eventually overflow.

So, what is more likely to come spraying out when an Mk4 comes around the curve by Hatfield?! The smell, and if you're really unlucky, taste might also give a clue too..

 

[swt_passenger]

Is there any correlation between 'dewirements' and the more complex areas such as neutral sections, junctions etc?

If the problems aren't purely random, has any thought been given to having the headspans replaced with something more solid such as portals or gantries just in those areas, given that they obviously aren't going to replace 400 miles of headspans...

 

[YorkshireRider]

I have to say having worked for GNER,NXEC and now EC for over 12 years overhead line problems have reduced hugely over the years, you could expect them to be down once or twice a month at least when i first started working on the railway but these days they rarely get pulled down, the problems at Hitchin were the first major problems in some time.

 

[tsr]

Or in the case of the ECML, a passenger on a nearby platform coughing.

Nearby? It doesn't have to be nearby! I could have a tickle in my throat on a train in Newquay and the wires would be down for nine hours at Alexandra Palace...

 

[dstrat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgCPPeYmyKw

Typical day on the ECML

 

[ainsworth74]

So that's why ADDs are important hock: