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ECML Damaged OHL

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tsr

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Normal passenger service punctuality is now reported on the affected stretch of the ECML - until 2200 tonight, that is, when further repairs will require a line blockage (as far as I know).

OHLE above one of the four roads remains discharged.
 
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Deerfold

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Normal passenger service punctuality is now reported on the affected stretch of the ECML - until 2200 tonight, that is, when further repairs will require a line blockage (as far as I know).

OHLE above one of the four roads remains discharged.

Although the EC website is now reporting emergency engineering work between Newark and Retford (and only refers to delays from 2200 rather than a complete blockage).
 
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What actually ended up happening - an HST shuttle doing KGX-SVG-HUN-PBO, with electrics handling onward services, and the normal 365s doing KGX-BIW, seemed eminently sensible. Were locomotives actually needed?

Nope.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It doesn't really happen that much.

And once you subtract the rate of incidents found on other electrified lines with "higher quality" equipment the number of excess incidents diminishes to quite a small value.

Indeed, well said. Thats if there actually is any difference in the number of incidents at all.
 

Deerfold

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EC's website is now starting to show changes later today due to the work going on - the 1845 from Leeds to KGX is cancelled, the 2045 will run via Cambridge. Presumably the 2330 from KGX (and the 2130?) and some york (and beyond) services will also be affected,
 

amcluesent

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I expect PBO-KGX commuters will 'work from home' en mass on Friday rather than face a 3rd day of disruption with overrunning engineering works and the risk of being stranded in London on a Friday night.

It'll be brave pax who take the 23:30 out of KGX tonight for Leeds!
 
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EC's website is now starting to show changes later today due to the work going on - the 1845 from Leeds to KGX is cancelled, the 2045 will run via Cambridge. Presumably the 2330 from KGX (and the 2130?) and some york (and beyond) services will also be affected,

The 2135 is capped, the set that would make the 1845 will go to NL instead so the sets are in the right place for tomorrow. I think the plan is to run the 2200 and 2330 via Cambridge put not 100% sure
 

D365

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I expect PBO-KGX commuters will 'work from home' en mass on Friday rather than face a 3rd day of disruption with overrunning engineering works and the risk of being stranded in London on a Friday night.

It'll be brave pax who take the 23:30 out of KGX tonight for Leeds!

My dad did yesterday, luckily so with the replacement bus carnage! Made it today, don't know about tomorrow. Chaos all around :P
 

Aictos

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EC's website is now starting to show changes later today due to the work going on - the 1845 from Leeds to KGX is cancelled, the 2045 will run via Cambridge. Presumably the 2330 from KGX (and the 2130?) and some york (and beyond) services will also be affected,

I'm on the 23:30 tonight :D
 

ChiefPlanner

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It was minus 2 in Herts last night - respect to those NR OLE gangs and staff out there who restored 3 /4 tracks in good order.
 

ushawk

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I expect PBO-KGX commuters will 'work from home' en mass on Friday rather than face a 3rd day of disruption with overrunning engineering works and the risk of being stranded in London on a Friday night.

It'll be brave pax who take the 23:30 out of KGX tonight for Leeds!

Why would they need to work from home ?

If the work isn't complete, then the affected line would be diesel only, so a service would run like it did today with delays of about 20 minutes, if your going to work from home because of a 20 min delay, then I wouldn't bother working 40 miles away.
 

TUC

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Have to say I'm disappointed by EC's communication.

I realise that things have been tough on the ground.

However, I'm signed up with them to get an e-mail or text message from them when there is disruption on specified trains. I've specified one morning one and one evening one.

I heard absolutely nothing from them until 90 minutes after my evening service should have departed - this was an apology for service disruption today and read as if I should already know what was going on on the line.

As it happened I stayed in London last night (and have chosen to tonight) and knew nothing of the disruption until (within a few minutes of each other) a friend told me he'd been 3 hours late last night and a colleague arrived for work 2 hours late. Surely if they want people to take other routes it's easier for them to do that in the first place than find out about the problems when they arrive at the station.

With so many problems I didn't expect one detailing exactly what would happen with my trains, but some indication of disruption would have been good.

The tone used by the East Coast representative on Radio Four's You and Yours today was noticable. He was asking passengers to contact the company about their experiences during the last couple of days and the tone was very much implying that they knew that things could have been handled better in terms of communication with passengers.
 

jon0844

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Not knowing how everything is managed, how does the information about what is going to happen (or what is hoped will happen) get relayed to the people that inform the general public via the web, Twitter, email, SMS and the platform systems?

Could there not be someone in control that is shadowing the staff making the key decisions to relay the information, if the current system is that it's done by the control staff when they get a chance (and obviously during dire disruption, that's a low priority).

Every single time there are problems, it's always lack of information. Even things like organising alternative services, or bus shuttles, causes problems when many live running info sites will just report loads of cancelled services - but not the alternative services. I know that it takes time to remove services and add in new ones, and - again - this can be a low priority, but these things really do make a MASSIVE difference.

The general public is usually very ignorant and often totally unfair in how it expects the railway to cope with things, but it doesn't help when they're so often not given information or explanations. Simply saying that - as of now - the standard timetable is gone, so forget your booked service, forget your advance tickets and seat reservations; this is what we're aiming to do. Anyone that can find alternative routes, or cancel their journey, do so.. and let's deal with the rest.

I know that's a bit simplistic, but you get the idea. TOCs might need to actually invest in staff to deal with emergencies like this even if they might end up paying staff to do very little when things are going well. The benefits in positive PR and happier passengers would have to be worth a few extra salaries, no?

[If it's the case that many TOCs are sharing offices with Network Rail, then such staff could be shared between multiple TOCs too]
 

Clip

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I agree with you. One problem though.

When you relay information to the ground staff and they then pass that out to the passengers, should that change you end up with some very VERY angry people come rushing back to you telling you that you have told them wrong information and will not accept that things have changed. Especially if a train had left earlier than planned and they had gone off somewhere to grab a bite to eat or drink.

Its a delicate balancing act and I must say, at the cross before the advent of twitter feeds and the like it was much easier to control the crowds during times of disruption because the only place they got info was from us. Twitter feeds will probably get the info out quicker than to the people on the ground which makes staff look like prize chumps when matey boy wakes his phone in your face telling you that you are lying because your TOCS twitter feed tells some thing different.


Of course smashing his phone as you move his angry hand out your face is gratifying but its not the solution ;)
 

jon0844

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I preferred it when I was the only one getting 'inside info' and being able to get to the right platform before a train was announced, and knowing the reason for delays.

Now everyone can do it and it's no fun anymore. :)

I can certainly see how Twitter might have that affect at stations for things like crowd control. I wonder if the TOC is aware of that?
 

Clip

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Most are aware of it but again its getting the info to the front line first, most staff have to have it relayed to them by a supervisor who will have a phone/pager on them so its still a long process, yet twitter has it in seconds.
 

jon0844

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The information should be given to people on the ground first, even if it's just a minute or two before it's Tweeted. Anything to let staff get prepared.

At KGX, given how FCC saved money by not zoning every station that was before, has Network Rail got the ability to do local announcements for individual platforms? When there's a crowd control/safety issue, someone should be able to get on a radio and speak to those people and tell them to move or whatever - as it must be a nightmare if peopel are running down platforms (especially 9-11, and even more especially 10 and 11 which is a very narrow island).
 

Clip

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Im unsure about that since they have had the refit but I remember being able to make announcements for the main shed or WAGN arera or all together on manual. Mind was all manual back then :)
 

mm333

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I preferred it when I was the only one getting 'inside info' and being able to get to the right platform before a train was announced, and knowing the reason for delays.

Now everyone can do it and it's no fun anymore. :)

I can certainly see how Twitter might have that affect at stations for things like crowd control. I wonder if the TOC is aware of that?

The UK Train Times iOS app quite often shows the platforms at KGX before they've been announced.
 

STEVIEBOY1

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With these overhead line problems on the East Coast Route and similar problems on the Midland Mainline a few days ago. Perhaps there is alot to be said in favour of third rail electrification. At least they dont get pulled or blown down by trains or bad weather. (It was interesting re the report on the radio about the MML problems as they said an EMT train pulled down the wires, I think that was an error as EMT are not electric.
 

jopsuk

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You'd quickly lose shoe gear from trains if you attempted to run a 125mph railway using 3rd rail- that, or the conductor ramps would have to be so long stopping trains would run into difficulty. The higher the service speed, the longer/shallower the ramps have to be as I understand it.

Also, AC requires far less power feed locations, and loses far less power from the system, whilst being able to deliver much more power. Then there's DC problems in cold weather whilst AC keeps going...
 

A-driver

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With these overhead line problems on the East Coast Route and similar problems on the Midland Mainline a few days ago. Perhaps there is alot to be said in favour of third rail electrification. At least they dont get pulled or blown down by trains or bad weather. (It was interesting re the report on the radio about the MML problems as they said an EMT train pulled down the wires, I think that was an error as EMT are not electric.

That is sort of correct-a thameslink is thought to have initially damaged the lines but the cable smashed into the windscreen of a passing intercity service which dragged the cable along with it until coming to a stand. That is what made the problem so major as it ripped quite a long section down.

They are investigating what went wrong as the cable was still live when it cut through the EMT windscreen-must have been a change your trousers moment for the driver! But the wires should automatically de-energise when they are broken which they didn't at radlett.

As for all the claims about re-wiring/going with 3rd rail etc-its just coincidence really that there have been 3 problems in as many months-its really not that common a problem and I think a few people are somewhat over reacting on here!
 

TUC

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I agree with you. One problem though.

When you relay information to the ground staff and they then pass that out to the passengers, should that change you end up with some very VERY angry people come rushing back to you telling you that you have told them wrong information and will not accept that things have changed. Especially if a train had left earlier than planned and they had gone off somewhere to grab a bite to eat or drink.

Its a delicate balancing act and I must say, at the cross before the advent of twitter feeds and the like it was much easier to control the crowds during times of disruption because the only place they got info was from us. Twitter feeds will probably get the info out quicker than to the people on the ground which makes staff look like prize chumps when matey boy wakes his phone in your face telling you that you are lying because your TOCS twitter feed tells some thing different.

The problem didn't just arise with Twitter. I remember several years ago when there were major delays at Kings Cross with large crowds there. There was an announcement that the train at Platform xx is now available for boarding. Everyone headed towards there, only to be met by a member of staff who insisted that this was not the case but then gave up trying to stop the flow, faced with the number of insistent passengers. When everyone got to the train it was indeed getting ready to depart.

Similarly at Darlington several years ago the London-bound side of the station was closed due to a passenger on the line. he platform staff continued to insist all the way through that there was no information on when the next train would be, even though the display screens were clearly showing information that was being updated on a regular basis.
 

Class377/5

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That is sort of correct-a thameslink is thought to have initially damaged the lines but the cable smashed into the windscreen of a passing intercity service which dragged the cable along with it until coming to a stand. That is what made the problem so major as it ripped quite a long section down.

They are investigating what went wrong as the cable was still live when it cut through the EMT windscreen-must have been a change your trousers moment for the driver! But the wires should automatically de-energise when they are broken which they didn't at radlett.

As for all the claims about re-wiring/going with 3rd rail etc-its just coincidence really that there have been 3 problems in as many months-its really not that common a problem and I think a few people are somewhat over reacting on here!

Very sorta correct. Thameslink train brought them down initially but wasn't cause of them coming own.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The UK Train Times iOS app quite often shows the platforms at KGX before they've been announced.

It'll be showing booked platforms where announcements are triggered by something manual (depending on location can be headcode or staff putting it in).
 

jon0844

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I think we've found a solution!!

I wonder if, one day, we'll be able to power trains by inductive charging/power; such as the trials being carried out by Qualcomm to charge cars (http://www.slashgear.com/qualcomm-h...largest-wireless-car-charging-trial-07255855/)

Obviously there's a difference between charging and actually moving, and a train consumes rather a lot of power, but I still wonder if we'll be able to do it in the next 10, 20 or 30 years. That would mean no need for wires that can fall down, or third rail that can get iced up.. just the whole track as one big power grid - yet people could walk on.

[Then we'll discover it causes cancer or something and...!]
 
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