ECML Damaged OHL

[harz99]

This is something that needs to be addressed in the next EC franchise. There should be a Milton Keynes style or Season Ticket restriction put in place at Peterborough and Stevenage.

Would it not be better to give the 5th EC path to FCC to run Peterborough sweepers with 12 car EMUs to cater for the spiralling commuter flows. How many North East and Scottish passengers find themselves standing or unable to board long distance IC services due to overcrowding caused by London commuters, especially on days like this?

Your wrong, and by a long way with PBO being an East Coast and former InterCity station; the Peterborough commuter market grew in the 80s and 90s as Peterborough expanded. Much was made of the ease of commuting to London, thus many people relocated to Peterborough and were rewarded by better, faster and more frequent peak services - BUT the season ticket prices were then increased by up to 11% year on year, making it a very expensive commute - the main justification for these swinging increases being
that the commuters had benefitted from a vastly superior Inter City service.

To now say they should go back to a lower quality, slower service on FCC is nonsensical - I suppose you do know there are already FCC only seasons at a lower rate that few people take up due to differing service levels and standards between EC and FCC.

As to standing pax - I assume you mean northbound in the evening peak - most from the north east and beyond will be travelling with advance reservations anyway, it is the commuters themselves who often stand from KGX due to almost every seat being reserved at peak times.

On days like this would you suggest that the commuters stay at home then?

 

[stut]

When are VT reinstating these peak stops?

Apologies, tense misuse on my part. A number of peak stops have been reinstated (between 6am and 7:15am).

 

[js47604]

Apologies, tense misuse on my part. A number of peak stops have been reinstated (between 6am and 7:15am).

Yes,they added 2 about 18 months ago.Still nothing between 1543-1843 ex Euston.Pathetic really.

 

[L&Y Robert]

BBC news at 17-10 approx. said the problem had been caused by "A cable failure". How misleading is that?

 

[Goatboy]

Given the amount of problems, if money were no object, how quickly could the ECML's OHLE be upgraded to the same standard as the WCML if Network Rail worked flat out?

Which, of course, can have different definitions - so let's say, full-weekend possessions, as opposed to the "nuclear option" of 24/7 rolling possessions until it's done.

And should making sure our existing OHLE is fit for purpose not be a priority thats addressed BEFORE we set about spending a fortune putting up a load of new OHLE elsewhere?

 

[YorkshireBear]

And should making sure our existing OHLE is fit for purpose not be a priority thats addressed BEFORE we set about spending a fortune putting up a load of new OHLE elsewhere?

It is fit for purpose. Stuff breaks.... 99% of the year it works as it was intended.

 

[E-Rail]

Your wrong, and by a long way with PBO being an East Coast and former InterCity station; the Peterborough commuter market grew in the 80s and 90s as Peterborough expanded. Much was made of the ease of commuting to London, thus many people relocated to Peterborough and were rewarded by better, faster and more frequent peak services - BUT the season ticket prices were then increased by up to 11% year on year, making it a very expensive commute - the main justification for these swinging increases being
that the commuters had benefitted from a vastly superior Inter City service.

To now say they should go back to a lower quality, slower service on FCC is nonsensical - I suppose you do know there are already FCC only seasons at a lower rate that few people take up due to differing service levels and standards between EC and FCC.

As to standing pax - I assume you mean northbound in the evening peak - most from the north east and beyond will be travelling with advance reservations anyway, it is the commuters themselves who often stand from KGX due to almost every seat being reserved at peak times.

On days like this would you suggest that the commuters stay at home then?

I am certainly not going to get the mini violin out for the very people who are responsible for house price inflation across the south east. An entire generation have been priced out of ever owning their own home by bleating commuters who want the best of both worlds.

As for inflation busting fare rises, again no sympathy. We constantly (thanks mostly to the BBC) hear how fares on SE have risen by 50% in a decade. Wow, if only petrol and diesel had only risen by that instead of the 100% increase that car commuters have had to find since 2009.

There is an easy solution to commuting woes. London wages are higher than Home Counties wages for a reason.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Well if we are in rant/pick to pieces mode then its pritty bad for every communitty on line esp at feb half term when foalk do tend to go away and this
must
be addressed next major upgrade as if we want the railways to be taken seriusly then farses such as this dont helpthe cause! I do however feel for the stranded many and in particular those on the crashed RRB and who spent the evening at the Cross

 

[rdwarr]

Whilst I normally commute home Kings X to Stevenage with FCC I sometimes choose an East Coast train because I know there will be more room (except on Fridays). The 18.33 always has plenty of seats available at the front even when the coaches further back are full of standing passengers.
So, if you're travelling long-distance and don't want to be inconvenienced by nasty commuters:
1) Reserve a seat, or
2) Sit near the front, or
3) Turn up more than five minutes before the train leaves.

I'm more than happy with the service I get from both FCC and EC. As for blaming the price of houses on commuters, that's just complete rubbish. House prices have gone up everywhere, not just in Peterborough and Stevenage.

 

[Goatboy]

It is fit for purpose. Stuff breaks.... 99% of the year it works as it was intended.

It is happening reasonably frequently of late.

 

[dstrat]

Why are sets not being dragged through with a diesel loco?

 

[Goatboy]

Why are sets not being dragged through with a diesel loco?

What diesel loco would that be?

 

[dstrat]

Are you seriously telling me there is nothing that can be moved in for these situations?

 

[A-driver]

Why are sets not being dragged through with a diesel loco?

Because the lines are blocked for repairs. They can't repair the damage with trains running through.

Once they could open 2 out of the 4 lines with the OHLE isolated (so only for diesels) they couldn't run a full service anyway so it was possible to run a limited service with just diesel units.

Plus there arnt enough locos to pull through all the trains and it would take too long and cause more delays if the electrics had to stop, attach to a loco (not as quick as joining 2 units together), run through from barford to connington, detach the loco, shunt it round for the next train back etc.

 

[Goatboy]

Are you seriously telling me there is nothing that can be moved in for these situations?

Neither FCC nor EC have suitable diesel locos and why bother going to the trouble of hiring some in, not commercially viable, easier to just cancel everything. Plus I'd imagine there is then all sorts of faff about crews signing the route etc etc blah blah.

Welcome to the modern railway.

 

[ainsworth74]

Neither FCC nor EC have suitable diesel locos and why bother going to the trouble of hiring some in, not commercially viable, easier to just cancel everything.

Only they've not cancelled everything and EC do have some diesel locomotives available to them as they hire a number of 67s from DBS for drags and thunderbird duties. However it's only about five or six and they're spread throughout their network.

Plus I'd imagine there is then all sorts of faff about crews signing the route etc etc blah blah.

I take it therefore that you'd be happy for drivers to drive routes of which they have little to no knowledge? This is hardly a problem of the modern railway that's something that's been around for a while...

 

[87015]

I take it therefore that you'd be happy for drivers to drive routes of which they have little to no knowledge? This is hardly a problem of the modern railway that's something that's been around for a while...

It is a direct result of having a fragmented railway, regardless of how long that has now been around is still c***.

 

[Goatboy]

Only they've not cancelled everything and EC do have some diesel locomotives available to them as they hire a number of 67s from DBS for drags and thunderbird duties.

Are they using them? I thought they were not.

I take it therefore that you'd be happy for drivers to drive routes of which they have little to no knowledge?

Thats not what I said at all.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Are they using them? I thought they were not.

They are stabled at Edinburgh, Newcastle, Doncatser and Peterborough(i think) all year round. So they have 4 avaliable to them plus more if they can be musted up (which they are for engineering works so maybe sometimes they can be for this depening on DBS workloads). I saw one the other day take a Leeds service via kirkgate so they are definitely using them.

 

[Goatboy]

They are stabled at Edinburgh, Newcastle, Doncatser and Peterborough(i think) all year round. So they have 4 avaliable to them plus more if they can be musted up (which they are for engineering works so maybe sometimes they can be for this depening on DBS workloads). I saw one the other day take a Leeds service via kirkgate so they are definitely using them.

I meant in todays disruption.

 

[amcluesent]

How many North East and Scottish passengers find themselves standing or unable to board long distance IC services due to overcrowding caused by London commuters, especially on days like this?

PBO pax are already 'not worthy' on EC, we get a sandwich while long distance pax get their hot meal. Don't know what it's like in Standard.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I meant in todays disruption.

Oh right, i think they havent yet but i theres less paths than there are HSTs so i dont think theyve had oppurtunity.

 

[A-driver]

Are they using them? I thought they were not.

No, they are not. Read my earlier post for the reasons why-I listed them there.

Also, 67s arnt stabled at peterbourgh, one is kept at kings x east sidings though.

 

[YorkshireBear]

No, they are not. Read my earlier post for the reasons why-I listed them there.

Also, 67s arnt stabled at peterbourgh, one is kept at kings x east sidings though.

AH thanks, i couldnt remember the last one Was a toss up between kings cross and peterborough.

 

[Essexman]

Why are sets not being dragged through with a diesel loco?

BBC London News tonight said that some trains now getting through with diesel locomotives - over film of an Adelante going by.

 

[stut]

BBC London News tonight said that some trains now getting through with diesel locomotives - over film of an Adelante going by.

They also had confused passengers wondering where on earth Biggleswade was. Helpfully, BBC provided a map... Where it was located near Royston. They helpfully explained it was on the Cambridge branch.

As anyone from Biggleswade knows, it's more Royston Vasey than Royston...

 

[Deerfold]

Have to say I'm disappointed by EC's communication.

I realise that things have been tough on the ground.

However, I'm signed up with them to get an e-mail or text message from them when there is disruption on specified trains. I've specified one morning one and one evening one.

I heard absolutely nothing from them until 90 minutes after my evening service should have departed - this was an apology for service disruption today and read as if I should already know what was going on on the line.

As it happened I stayed in London last night (and have chosen to tonight) and knew nothing of the disruption until (within a few minutes of each other) a friend told me he'd been 3 hours late last night and a colleague arrived for work 2 hours late. Surely if they want people to take other routes it's easier for them to do that in the first place than find out about the problems when they arrive at the station.

With so many problems I didn't expect one detailing exactly what would happen with my trains, but some indication of disruption would have been good.

 

[Crossover]

Don't you just love the media(!)

Was watching our local ITV News programme for a bit this evening (Calendar) and it was second story on (followed by the HS2 debate...how convenient!) so pretty high up. They had a reporter at Leeds advising of all the issues and how loads of people not knowing before turning up to catch a train.

So, their solution was to stand outside the station and seemingly accost some of the passengers as they arrive with sentences such as "Did you know that you are going to have to take a bus from Peterborough to London today?" - I mean...what a way to have passengers start the day and before they have got a full "rundown" of what is going on (e.g. they may get a train through if it is diverted or such"

Then of course you have the passengers saying how disgusting it is that they have had to bustitute the service...again, probably someone who has been pounced on as they arrive and don't know that the entire ECML is totally screwed and they have no bloody choice (i.e. it is either bustitute or leave them at Peterborough!)

And we wonder why the general public have such a low opinion of railways :roll:

</rant>

No, so far as I am aware it needs down grading to 1960's standards.

From what I have read when BR put up the OHL on the ECML they had to do it as cheaply as possible, so as to get the price down to an amount the government of the day would authorise. So everything is built right out at the maximum end of what the equipment is fit for, with no spare capacity kept in reserve.

The most quoted example of this is the use of headspan wires strung between two stanchions rather than portal frames, where there are more than two tracks to wire, and that these masts are all spread out as much as possible to reduce the number needed per mile.

The down side of this is that if damage to one road affects a headspan wire you tend to loose power to all lines. Whereas in portal frame equipment each lines equipment is more separate, and you are more likely to lose just a single line.

The further apart the masts are the more potential for sideways movement there is in the wires, and the more critical a problem at any single headspan becomes. As the adjacent sound headspans are too far away to help hold the damaged section in line. Should the weather or a fault move the wire far enough to one side that it comes off the end of a pan. The pan being sprung to press on the wire, can rise ending up caught between the lower contact and upper support wire, ripping out the dropper wires between them as it goes.

Thanks for the info Trog - very interesting

 

[jon0844]

Whilst I normally commute home Kings X to Stevenage with FCC I sometimes choose an East Coast train because I know there will be more room (except on Fridays). The 18.33 always has plenty of seats available at the front even when the coaches further back are full of standing passengers.

Wouldn't that also be true of the 12-car FCC services? Or if the exit at Peterborough is at that end, perhaps some coaches further down or near the middle.

At least at KGX you can get on an empty train, so it's surely a case of planning ahead and not running for your train with 30 seconds to spare!

It is happening reasonably frequently of late.

Besides signalling problems, which I assumed include cable thefts, I thought the wires did a fairly good job of staying up for most of 2012. I wonder what has changed that so rapidly?

 

[Chrisgr31]

I dont know what else has been said in the thread but I have been up to Skipton and back by train today.

I was on an early train out of Crowborough today. Got to London Bridge on time, down to the tube where in the tunnel from the rail station to the underground I saw a screen displaying a warning of engineering works near Gleneagles which might cause delayed journeys. So I pondered how many people who saw it would be affected, probably none.

Anyway continued to Kings Cross where I found very few people and a lot of cancelled trains, first I knew of the problems. There were a few people hanging round the information desk where a coupl,e of staff were helping customers, and I was told to got via St Pancras and And Sheffield, which is what I did. Got a seat on the Sheffield train, then X Country to Leeds, got a seat too, then leeds to Skipton, same route return home, seats all the way home too.

Delayed by an hour each way but other than that no real problem.