Ebbsfleet International

[williamn]

Does anyone know how its doing? I was a bit dubious about the cutting of services at Ashford in favour of Ebbsfleet - though I am biased as have family near there! Everytime I have stopped there only a handful of people have got on.

 

[Galvanize]

IMHO, it is a bad idea scrapping the call at Ashford! Ebbsfleet was designed to encourage people to arrive by road from the M25, A2, A20 etc rather than by train!

Ashford however, I suppose the fact that less trains are calling there, eliminates any potential conflicting movements if trains from Tonbridge direction want to head towards Canterbury! Aside from that, Ashford international had so much more potential than Ebbsfleet, as it is easily accessible from north and east kent, by rail and by road! The Marshlink services were extended to Brighton so that more people would be encouraged to use it!

From what i've read though in TR:UK magazine, Ebbsfleet is quite a poor service, as there is only a couple of shops which are never open, the station has a cold and uninviting feel to it, and the parking is quite expensive!

 

[JoshW1992]

To be honest, I cant see the point in Ebbsfleet station. Ashford Intl was the perfect spot, as train service from everywhere in Kent connected to it. If someone from East Kent decided to take a Eurostar, they would have to go all the way to Ebbsfleet to get one, if they cut services from Ashford.

 

[Suggs]

I agree completely, even though I am right near Ebbsfleet, it is a right pain to get there as I dont have a car. Even though Ashford is 10 miles further away, I would rather go there as I dont have to change onto the stupid Fastrack to get there from the train.

 

[JoshW1992]

Yeah, Ashford is easily accesible by anyone... and pretty much slap bang in the centre of the county (almost!)

 

[Suggs]

Why at Ebbsfleet could they have not connected it properly with Northfleet? I believe all there is is the footbridge from the station over the lines into Ebbsfleet's car park. Surely they were capable of building a proper covered walkway between the two, like at Waterloo and Waterloo East, and then we could have 'Northfleet for Ebbsfleet International'. Would there also be slack to allow an additional stop at Northfleet on the Charing Cross-Gillingham Semi-Fast?
Or are they stopping it from having a direct rail link to London or Medway only a couple of hundred metres away because they don't want any competition with the pricier High Speed Services from serving there from Ebbsfleet next year?

 

[JoshW1992]

I agree, Waterloo and Waterloo East are fine examples of how this station should have been modelled.

 

[Crompton Karl]

Having lived around the Corner from Ebbsfleet for a While and used it quite a lot in the last 6 months i would like to see some form of ability to connect with the National Network at Northfleet too. A really big oversight in my opinion.

Karl

 

[JoshW1992]

I totally agree with you Karl

 

[Suggs]

There's no reason why Northfleet couldn't have the same treatment as Greenhithe has, with a spanking-new station building, and the walkway over the tracks with lifts for disabled passengers, and then the end of the walkway pointing towards Ebbsfleet would just continue on into the Ebbsfleet Station building. Simple.
And then get the Charing Cross-Gillingham semi-fast to stop at Northfleet, its only all that busy between London-Dartford (did it call at Greenhithe before Bluewater?). Not having a direct rail link discourages those not within reach of the buses of using it, making some people in the Greater London area(Bexleyheath/Abbey Wood/Sidcup etc.)travel into London to go back out again, costing them more money.
Surely an International Rail Terminal is as important as a shopping centre?

 

[metrocammel]

Yesterday, I travelled on the 1613 ex Gare du Nord to St. Pancras, which stopped at Ebbsfleet- I had a quick look out while stopped- and I would say no more than 15 people alighted- and the rest of the station seemed desserted too. At the moment, it does seem to be a white elephant....

 

[Suggs]

Yes, you get the idea that Ebbsfleet is way bigger than what is needed. The only time ive seen it full was on comic relief night, and nobody was getting on any trains!
It should get more passengers next year hopefully when the High Speed Domestics begin, but more staff there than passengers at the moment.

 

[Crompton Karl]

However, speaking with my knowledge of what happens the other side of the counter, it does seem to be that the numbers booking from Ebbsfleet are equal to what we did for Ashford too, Eurostar have not yet started promoting Ebbsfleet big time yet, that plan is due to commence once the Domestic HS services are started.

 

[JoshW1992]

Ashford gets incredibly busy at times. Nearly every train has about 200 passengers alighting there.

 

[Suggs]

And a lot more trains go to Ashford than Gravesend.

 

[JoshW1992]

Yes, a heck of a lot more

 

[Max]

To be fair, Ebbsfleet is much better placed for the rest of the country. I thought some trains were still calling at Ashford anyway?

 

[Suggs]

It is a very good location, geographically, but in terms of transport links it is poor compared to Ashford and I believe (and i'm sure the others on this thread will agree) the loss of services from Ashford to Ebbsfleet aren't justified.

 

[Max]

It is a very good location, geographically, but in terms of transport links it is poor compared to Ashford and I believe (and i'm sure the others on this thread will agree) the loss of services from Ashford to Ebbsfleet aren't justified.

I do agree that Ebbsfleet is more designed as a 'park and ride' and an integrated public transport centre. Personally, I believe that Eurostar could have used Ashford in a much more clever way after pulling out of Waterloo. Presumably, for people living south and south east of the capital, the loss of trains from Waterloo now means a trek across London, or a fairly long car journey to Ebbsfleet. Perhaps more money could have been invested in rail services to Ashford - Ashford could have become a useful interchange point between national rail and Eurostar, for people who would before have travelled into Waterloo.

Then, you would have a virtually nationwide appeal, St Pancras being a national rail-Eurostar hub for the Midlands, North of England and the West Country, Ebbsfleet a car-Eurostar hub for greater London and the North, and Ashford a national rail-Eurostar hub for the south east.

 

[CraigS]

I thought some trains were still calling at Ashford anyway?

Thats what I thought, I'm sure I heard or read something that said only four Eurostar services a day will call at Ashford.

 

[JoshW1992]

Yeah thats right... well, last time I heard it was...

 

[paul1609]

I think the problem with Ashford is that the cross country road network is very poor in the South East. For anywhere west of the Brighton Main Line the quickest way is up to the M25 and then down the M26 and M20. Unfortunately this route then takes you within 10 miles of Ebbsfleet. Ebbsfleet has the advantage of saving you 40 miles driving each way.
Despite the publicity released by Eurostar I'd suggest the move to St Pancras has lost them a considerable chunk of the business market from the South East.
I live in the Southampton TV area (just) and we are being bombarded with adverts telling us about our convient park and ride station at Ebbsfleet just off the M25!

 

[Metroland]

Cross Channel train operator Eurostar has reported ticket sales between January and June 2008 totalled £368.8m – an increase of 24.7% against the same period in 2007. Passenger numbers reached 4.63m – an 18.3% year-on-year increase.

The company says demand at its new Ebbsfleet International station in north Kent, just off junction 2 of the M25 and close to Bluewater shopping centre, is fully meeting expectations. Traveller numbers at Ashford International also continue in line with expectations following the opening of High Speed 1.

http://www.transportbriefing.co.uk/story.php?id=5089

Richard Brown, Eurostar’s chief executive, said the impact of the new line’s opening had been immediate, with the speeding-up of services and Eurostar’s better environmental record winning passengers from short-haul airlines. “We expect to see this growth continue throughout 2008 as the impact of the new through fares from across the UK drives growth in the number of travellers using Eurostar from towns and cities north and south of London,” he said. Growth for 2007 was particularly strong among business travellers, where ticket sales were up 11.9 per cent on 2006.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1b5260bc-be97-11dc-8c61-0000779fd2ac.html

 

[Suggs]

The company says demand at its new Ebbsfleet International station in north Kent, just off junction 2 of the M25 and close to Bluewater shopping centre, is fully meeting expectations.

Cant have been expecting much then

And I swear the reason ticket sales were up was because Eurostar was undercutting the Airlines.

 

[Crompton Karl]

Cant have been expecting much then

And I swear the reason ticket sales were up was because Eurostar was undercutting the Airlines.

Well i have worked for both Eurostar and currently work for the UK office of the French National railways for over 8 years now combined and in that time Eurostars Lead in Fare has always started at £59.00 per person return. Sometimes there are special offers, however, across their fare range i would say they have slightly increased and their passenger numbers have still increased dramatically. So it can't be undercutting Airlines thats whats doing it, i think a number of Factors are responsible, People are more aware of the Green credentials of travelling by trains, the Government does not Tax Train travel like it does airlines now a days, also Eurostar is not as affected by the cost of fuel being electric.

Karl

 

[EE Type 3]

I agree, Waterloo and Waterloo East are fine examples of how this station should have been modelled.

You can't say Waterloo East is a fine example. It isn't exactly a nice station
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thats what I thought, I'm sure I heard or read something that said only four Eurostar services a day will call at Ashford.

Four Services isn't much. Dovey Junction see's more trains a day than that. Mind you, what we get isn't exactly a Eurostar

 

[glynn80]

According to E* research 2/3 of passengers passed Ebbsfleet on there way travelling to Ashford, one of the excuses of less services stopping there. Another excuse for cutting the Brussels service was that approx. 40 pax per day used it (2/3 of which would of passed Ebbsfleet if research was correct) and if people were that desperate to go from Ashford to Brussels they can change at Lille.

 

[williamn]

That seems odd to me. If you were passing Ebbsfleet en route to Ashford then it implies you live pretty close to central London or even North of London in which case why not just get on in London?

Its the passengers who live in mid and east kent, and Sussex who are most disadvantaged.

 

[paul1609]

Broadly if you live outside the M25 and to the West of the London to Brighton Road M/A23 (or main Line) or much of west and south West London and you are traveling to Eurostar by road you will pass through junction 5 of the M25. From there you can continue on the M25 then A2 to Ebbsfleet which is around 14 miles or you can join the M26,M20 to Ashford which is 40 miles. Traveling by Car to St Pancras isn't practicable because of the high cost of parking, congestion charge, long journey time.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Traveling by Car to St Pancras isn't practicable because of the high cost of parking, congestion charge, long journey time.

That's why you should use the tube/overground/bus to reach St.P

Although, having said that St.P is not in the Congestion Charging Zone