East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

[hwl]

nowt is happening.

Surely newt is happening

On a more serious note, vegetation clearance and wildlife moves are a huge part of making this happen and will also reduce issues at the Inquiry.

 

[gallafent]

Incidentally, intended services and opening dates for the Western section are at http://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/train-services/

“No change to the existing hourly sopping service […]” — except that they have clearly added air conditioning using the same system as the IETs.

 

[SwindonBert]

Will there be the capacity to run more trains between Didcot & Reading, especially at peak hours? Understand why they would want to link into Reading, but surely it would be easier to run to Didcot

 

[swt_passenger]

Will there be the capacity to run more trains between Didcot & Reading, especially at peak hours? Understand why they would want to link into Reading, but surely it would be easier to run to Didcot

The original idea was that potential EWR services across Oxford would replace existing stopping services south of Oxford, but electrification to Oxford sometime before EWR starts probably ruins that idea now...

 

[Andyjs247]

The original idea was that potential EWR services across Oxford would replace existing stopping services south of Oxford, but electrification to Oxford sometime before EWR starts probably ruins that idea now...

EWR is supposed to be getting bi-modes (which GWR don't have for stopping services). And the schedule seems to be firming up to 2022. But there is still no date for wires to be extended from Didcot to Oxford.

Also it makes sense for EWR to go beyond Oxford to Reading - which is has always been the plan. Didcot to Paddington goes electric from January so it will be all change there for the stoppers. If EWR starts up in 2022 and can be run through Oxford, it will solve the problem of the Turbos still needed for Oxford - Didcot. It will free them up to go west. The capacity improvements and resignalling through Oxford will be needed before electrification and I can't see electrification to Oxford happening before EWR.

 

[jimm]

Why not? The GW electrification teams will need something to do from early 2019 onwards, otherwise they will probably be disbanded and their hard-won expertise will be lost if that's what happens.

Control Period 6 starts on April 1 2019 and Oxford resignalling will be completed next summer, so as long as CP6 funding to complete the delayed bits of GW wiring (Oxford and Bristol area) is finalised and allocated in good time, then it should be possible for wires on Didcot to Oxford to go up long before 2022. Most of the piling work was done a long time ago, so it's really a case of getting steelwork up and wiring strung.

 

[cle]

Why not? The GW electrification teams will need something to do from early 2019 onwards, otherwise they will probably be disbanded and their hard-won expertise will be lost if that's what happens.

Control Period 6 starts on April 1 2019 and Oxford resignalling will be completed next summer, so as long as CP6 funding to complete the delayed bits of GW wiring (Oxford and Bristol area) is finalised and allocated in good time, then it should be possible for wires on Didcot to Oxford to go up long before 2022. Most of the piling work was done a long time ago, so it's really a case of getting steelwork up and wiring strung.

How about Swansea!

Does that assume Bristol both routes is done?

If E/W began, they could run up to Bletchley at least.

 

[jimm]

Cardiff-Swansea was cancelled by Mr Grayling - unlike Didcot-Oxford and the Bristol area routes, which were deferred.

 

[cle]

Yep I know, it was a bit ironic - as in, if the teams had nowhere else to go, why not back to the intended next stretch...!

 

[richieb1971]

Happy to see work is still in progress on EWR. There is a distinct lack of publicly announced "hard" dates on these things. Its a shame the transport minister never goes public on an actual promised date on when the gaps in the EWR will be filled. When you read something like "work will start in 201*" it gives the impression its very vague and acts as a placeholder more than anything.

Changing the subject a tad bit, what is the Transport ministers order of priorities on rail at the moment say from 1-5. That would give me (and others) and idea of where EWR sits in the line of priorities. Thank you.

 

[D365]

Changing the subject a tad bit, what is the Transport ministers order of priorities on rail at the moment say from 1-5. That would give me (and others) and idea of where EWR sits in the line of priorities. Thank you.

This discussion might be relevant to your query.

 

[jimm]

Yep I know, it was a bit ironic - as in, if the teams had nowhere else to go, why not back to the intended next stretch...!

Swansea was always at the back of the queue, even if it was still going ahead - and on the original schedule electric trains would have been running to Oxford last December and to Bristol from the middle of this year

 

[Bald Rick]

Happy to see work is still in progress on EWR. There is a distinct lack of publicly announced "hard" dates on these things. Its a shame the transport minister never goes public on an actual promised date on when the gaps in the EWR will be filled. When you read something like "work will start in 201*" it gives the impression its very vague and acts as a placeholder more than anything.

Changing the subject a tad bit, what is the Transport ministers order of priorities on rail at the moment say from 1-5. That would give me (and others) and idea of where EWR sits in the line of priorities. Thank you.

And you won't get a firm date for starting work, let alone finishing it, until all the relevant preparations are done. Not least obtaining the necessary planning consents.

 

[Chris125]

And you won't get a firm date for starting work, let alone finishing it, until all the relevant preparations are done. Not least obtaining the necessary planning consents.

That's exactly it - the TWAO for Oxford-Bicester dragged on for years.

 

[YorkshireBear]

And you won't get a firm date for starting work, let alone finishing it, until all the relevant preparations are done. Not least obtaining the necessary planning consents.

Not only that network rail are pushing for no commitment to dates till the end of grip 4? So basically at the start of the detailed design.

 

[bspahh]

Happy to see work is still in progress on EWR. There is a distinct lack of publicly announced "hard" dates on these things.

You could ask Peter Austin, Delivery Director of the new East West Rail Company. He will be addressing the national rail campaigning organisation Railfuture. It is a public meeting in Cambridge at 2pm on Saturday December 2nd, at the Tamburlaine Hotel 100m from Cambridge station.

There is more on page 13 of this PDF file http://www.railfuture.org.uk/east/rail-east/

 

[work-traveller]

Ah yes, the 'East West Rail Company'. Expect it to sit between the funder (DfT) and designer/deliverer (EWR Alliance - incl. Network Rail). So little difference from the way it's been operating for a good long while now. You could fit the employees of EWR Ltd in a people carrier - room for luggage too!

 

[bspahh]

You could ask Peter Austin, Delivery Director of the new East West Rail Company. He will be addressing the national rail campaigning organisation Railfuture. It is a public meeting in Cambridge at 2pm on Saturday December 2nd, at the Tamburlaine Hotel 100m from Cambridge station.

I took these notes during the talk:

Peter Austin, East West Railway Company

Chartered Accountant. Rail supporter rather than an enthusiast.
Managing Director at London Overground. Joined EWR in August
as Delivery Director. His focus is on the Western end of the line.

The Eastern section is embryonic at the moment.

Hansford Review, June 2017 looked at competition. Increase contestability
to compete with Network Rail.

NIC National Infrastructure Commission report 2017
By 2030 deliver the central section.
Deliver the Western section by 2023, commitment of £1Bn for delivery
Oxford-Cambridge Expressway by 2030

The report is advisory, but has had a lot of discussion.

Momentum in the last couple of months. Mention in the budget.
£5m for Cambridge South station.

November 2017,
Strategic Vision for Rail, by 2024 the Western section will be complete.

Chairman Rob Brighouse (non-Exec director of Network Rail)
Delivery Director Peter Austin
Commercial Director Chris Nicholson
Strategy Director Will Gallagher
A few others.
Secretary of State is their sole shareholder. "Mobilising resource and capability for April 2018

EWRco Objectives
Customer Focus - Effective Delivery - Private Sector Investment - Agent
for Growth. Quicker and cheaper than Network Rail.

Housing development is a key part. Railway needs to go to the right places.

Pooling labour markets. Getting commuting to work, rather than long distance
travel.


Its not being built for Engineers, but customers.

Network Rail already has contracts to build the Western section. They are
at the single design stage. They don't want to disrupt this, but help out.

Bedford-Cambridge Central section EWR can make the biggest impact.

Other companies will be able to use the EWR tracks.

Embryonic business plan. Set up EWRco. From now to April work out what
they are doing with Network Rail, select a route for the central section.
Funding?

Railway Operations - infrastructure manager, train operations, management.
Ideally bundle in one group.

Western Section. Oxford-Bicester

New bay platforms in Oxford. 5 cars at the moment, can be extended to 8.
Electrification for the line would be £250m more.

Oxford has 4 tracks, but has a lot of traffic.

London Road level crossing in Bicester. 2 trains per hour Oxford to MK,
1 train per hour Oxford to Bedford, 1 train per hour Ayelsbury MK,
later 1 train per hour Oxford Cambridge.
Bridging is a problem here

A4421 Charbridge Lane crossing

Complex crossing with HS2

North from MK into Bedford is expensive, and is less likely.

Marston Vale line is a real challenge will have some improvement. Current work
is to extend 2 stations and closing level crossings. Not much to speed up
Close to M1, Amazon warehouse. Plans to add a car park and bus stop


Central section:

Land value uplift and capture. Beneficiaries pay. Railway will cost several
billions. TFL got funding for 2/3rs from a developer. Options:
Development Corporations, S106 infrastructure levy, bespoke agreements.
Hansford wasn't very clear on this. Refers to development corporations and
relaxing S106 levies. Some of money should go to national infrastructure,
some should be for local infrastructure (schools, hospitals etc).

Value for Money, deliver for more customers

Delivery model: most are delivered by Network Rail who subcontract.
They sometimes do well. Not always. Usually a target-cost model.
Formal alliance. Target price, shared risk. Contractors like this.
EWR would like to look at fixed price bids. More certainty, more
incentive for on time delivery.

Network Rail are accused of gold-plating, interpretation of technical
standards. Push methods, has to be safe.

Cost of capital is higher for private finance. Still need to work with
Network Rail.

DBFOM Design Build Finance Operate Maintain
Then the operators may need to take to take revenue risk. The railway
is not isolated from the rest of the network.

Route Selection

The Old Varsity Line, closed in 1967. In 1957 2 trains each day in each
direction. 2 hours 20 minutes. Not great.

The old route has either been built on, Sustrans, observatory,
noise insulate 100s of houses. Look for a new route. Sensitive

Formal options process.

Probably coming up Marston Vale, leave at Lidlington.

Northern through Bedford Midland
Southern through Bedford South Parkway

To get lots of housing growth, don't just take the fastest route, hit the
big housing markets, meet ECML near Sandy. Limited numbers of stations.
Looking at cost, journey times, environment, business case. Sandy station
may well be moved a bit North or South.

Options vary between 53km and 41 km, £3.5bn - £2bn, journey times 30 - 25 mins.
Nothing is funded.

For the Cambridge approach, most go through Shepreth junction.
Tunneling through the left goes through Granchester meadows and
the airport. Dedicated platforms in a tunnel, cost is ~ £1bn
and saves 90 seconds in journey time (2 minutes, less 30 seconds on
an escalator.
Shepreth junciton ~ £100m instead.

Route selection in 2018 would have been nice, but housing deals might push
this back to 2020.

 

[MarkRedon]

Thank you bspahh, very interesting. Any mention of four-tracking on approaches to Cambridge "Central"?

 

[Bald Rick]

Thank you bspahh, very interesting. Any mention of four-tracking on approaches to Cambridge "Central"?

That's required for Cambridge south station, regardless of whether EWR happens of not.

 

[richieb1971]

Sounds a lot like a wish list for the tooth fairy when you don't have any teeth. Still looking for signs of government backing on the project to get the first big things moving.

Since the Marston Vale already exists I don't see any reason to wait to replace the level crossings and upgrade the stations and track.

Still mentioning a chord linking MK with Bedford (albeit unlikely) It seems like nothing has been taken off the table with 3 options for the central section (Northern, Southern, central options). Going off at Lidlington seems premature and its rather hilly round there. I bet thats the highest point of the Vale track. Going through Bedford Midland wasn't an option that was chosen, but its mentioned here which is weird. But the central option looks like the option that was chosen and is most likely.

 

[Rational Plan]

The Arc between Oxford and Cambridge is a high tech high wage job and population gorowth zone. It is also the favoured arc for new housing.

Reading the Oxford Cambridge expressway routing option's it's clear that they want both the new motorway and rail line to be close to each other to maximise development. The rail is to act a means for fast city to city centre links, while the road is to access the outskirts of same towns for business parks, freight and suburban housing.

The costs of both will be more than £2 billion each. But they intend to get their tax money back through housebuilding and job growth. Milton Keynes is expected to be the key hub with population pushed towards 500,000 and plenty of other new towns on a scale not seen since the 1960's.

Talk of hundreds of thousands stretching from Bletchly to Buckingham and Bicester. Looking at a realingnment of the East Coastline at Sandy , for a major expansion of that town as well.

 

[mr_jrt]

The only reason I can come up with for mentioning Lidlington is that it's the easternmost bit of the Marston Vale line that you can guarantee will be used by EWR come what may - as that's the point any route heading south to Luton or north to Bedford via the MML would use. More likely, the Marston Vale line would be used in its entirety to Bedford...

 

[Chester1]

Since the Marston Vale already exists I don't see any reason to wait to replace the level crossings and upgrade the stations and track.

The lack of funding to develop the line is not very encouraging. It has a huge number of level crossings and platforms so short that they need converted D trains because 2 coach sprinters won't fit! Three or four of the level crossings will be very difficult to close or bridge but rest will be easy. A TWA to close or bridge these crossings and lengthen platforms to fit 4 coach trains would be a very visable way of commiting to EWR and make the project easier to start at a later date. £100m of DfT funding would make a good start.

 

[whittlesfordok]

They mentioned the airport I can see this being right as Cambridge airport is in the north east of Cambridge!

 

[bspahh]

Still mentioning a chord linking MK with Bedford (albeit unlikely)

He did make a comment about not having a direct run from Milton Keynes to Cambridge, which makes it sound that they wouldn't have that chord.

It seems like nothing has been taken off the table with 3 options for the central section (Northern, Southern, central options). Going off at Lidlington seems premature and its rather hilly round there. I bet thats the highest point of the Vale track. Going through Bedford Midland wasn't an option that was chosen, but its mentioned here which is weird. But the central option looks like the option that was chosen and is most likely.

He showed a slide with a schematic showing 6 different routes between Bedford and Cambridge. I'm not sure if he mentioned anything that was not in the engineering report here http://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Engineering-Summary-Report.pdf

 

[bspahh]

They mentioned the airport I can see this being right as Cambridge airport is in the north east of Cambridge!

That was when he was talking about a tunnel through the centre of Cambridge, where it would start in Granchester and come out near the airport. He said that it would cost £1Bn instead of £100m, and save 90 seconds of journey time, so it seems unlikely.

 

[jimm]

The Arc between Oxford and Cambridge is a high tech high wage job and population gorowth zone. It is also the favoured arc for new housing.

Reading the Oxford Cambridge expressway routing option's it's clear that they want both the new motorway and rail line to be close to each other to maximise development. The rail is to act a means for fast city to city centre links, while the road is to access the outskirts of same towns for business parks, freight and suburban housing.

The costs of both will be more than £2 billion each. But they intend to get their tax money back through housebuilding and job growth. Milton Keynes is expected to be the key hub with population pushed towards 500,000 and plenty of other new towns on a scale not seen since the 1960's.

Talk of hundreds of thousands stretching from Bletchly to Buckingham and Bicester. Looking at a realingnment of the East Coastline at Sandy , for a major expansion of that town as well.

The western end of a road route (MK-Oxford) is likely to run further south than the railway - in Oxfordshire there is a clear preference among the powers-that-be for option A on the options map in this document https://www.aspleyguiseparishcouncil.gov.uk/assets/documents/he-presentation-to-mk

This would relieve the A34 between junction 9 of the M40 past the western edge of Oxford to Abingdon, which has to accommodate high volumes of local and long-distance traffic and where widening through Botley and Hinksey isn't really an acceptable move. Option A would also relieve the A418 between the M40 and Thame and put fast-growing Aylesbury on the trunk road network.

 

[B&I]

So if this is to be primarily a frequent-stop commuter railway, does that not make the lack of plans to electrify even more bizarre? Or is this all a token effort designed to appease people who will be up in arms about the amount of money going on the 'expressway'?

 

[jimm]

So if this is to be primarily a frequent-stop commuter railway, does that not make the lack of plans to electrify even more bizarre? Or is this all a token effort designed to appease people who will be up in arms about the amount of money going on the 'expressway'?

What gives you that idea? On the core Oxford-Cambridge route here will be one intermediate stop between Oxford and Bicester, one between Bicester and Bletchley, East West services will only serve two of the stops between Bletchley and Bedford (with the local stopping service continuing to cover the rest) and part from Sandy, there isn't anywhere of any size the rest of the way to Cambridge. Plus there will be Oxford and Marylebone/Aylesbury services to MK operating at the western end, as well as the Bedford/Cambridge services.

None of which looks much like a frequent-stop commuter railway.