East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

[Bald Rick]

There's a lot of stations in France operated by SNCF with no trains.

Well kept bus stop out the front through.

 

[kevconnor]

I'm struggling to understand how a station could be 'effectively operational' if there's no track!

Much like the hospital without any patients

[youtube]x-5zEb1oS9A[/youtube]

 

[fflint]

Build it and they will come.

 

[midlandred]

I notice from a railway magazine that Network Rail have disbanded their site at Verney Junction, and that the line is becoming overgrown again where there had been some clearance work done
Any significance?

 

[The Planner]

None whatsoever.

 

[MarkRedon]

The prepared text of a speech made by the Right Honourable Chris Grayling, Secretary of State for Transport, to the County Councils’ National Conference on 07/11/2016 appears as a press release on the Department for Transport website: https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/better-transport-in-county-council-areas. It makes no reference to the East West rail scheme, but explicitly warns that the text of the speech as delivered may differ from that on the website.

Interestingly, it would appear that at the conference itself Chris Grayling reiterated the commitment of the government to the East West scheme in a departure from that prepared text. The East West Rail Consortium website at http://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/2016...nt-restates-the-importance-of-east-west-rail/ states:

“The Secretary of State for Transport has confirmed the Government’s commitment to deliver East West Rail at the earliest opportunity. East West Rail is important and exactly the type of project that is needed to support our growth plans, was the clear message from the Rt Hon Chris Grayling MP when he addressed local authority leaders…”

Cllr Rodney Rose, Deputy Leader of Oxfordshire County Council and Chairman of the Joint Delivery Board for East West Rail Western Section, appears to remain optimistic that at least phase 2 (Bicester to Bedford and Milton Keynes to Aylesbury) will be built, probably in CP6 timescales. Councillor Rose is quoted on the same East West Rail Consortium webpage:

“Following a period of uncertainty over delays due to pressure on the national rail budget, we’re optimistic that Government will now follow through on its commitment by making funds available for earliest possible completion. We continue to work closely with Department for Transport and Network Rail to make this happen. We look forward to having a clear, realistic and accelerated delivery programme by January 2017.”

EWRC continues to push for explicit commitment to reopening Bedford to Cambridge via Sandy and making connections with the East Coast main line.

This same story is picked up, and slightly amplified, by the Public Sector Executive website at http://www.publicsectorexecutive.co...uncils-welcome-dft-support-for-east-west-rail. They additionally report that:

In August, Paul Maynard, the rail minister, wrote to Cllr Rose saying that despite the project’s deferral, the Department for Transport was “working hard to explore ways which could see its delivery brought forward”.

It is difficult in the current febrile climate not to be a little cynical about politics and politicians. But it would certainly seem that at least the Secretary of State and his Rail Minister are keen to see early progress on this important rail project.

 

[snowball]

but explicitly warns that the text of the speech as delivered may differ from that on the website.

That's standard whenever ministers' speeches are reported in government press releases or websites.

 

[Class 170101]

Been suggested elsewhere on this board that DMUs will use the line for longer than envisaged as wiring has been postponed.

 

[richieb1971]

Been suggested elsewhere on this board that DMUs will use the line for longer than envisaged as wiring has been postponed.

So that doubles the price of the wires when they get introduced and erected when a fully functioning railway is trying to operate. Nice.

I suppose its a catch 22, i'd rather just see it open in some capacity or other.

 

[The Ham]

A holding statement which does atleast give some reassurances on this project:

https://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2016/11/14-east-west-rail-link-details.html

COUNCIL leaders have been reassured by a restated commitment to build East West Rail, in spite of concerns about Network Rail's budget and the possible impact of the Chancellor's Autumn Statement later this month. They are also hoping that details of an accelerated programme of construction will be published in the New Year.

Transport secretary Chris Grayling has told the national conference of county councils that the project is important and 'exactly the type of project that is needed to support our growth plans'.

His optimistic message has been greeted with relief by councils along the route between Oxford and Bedford.

Cllr Rodney Rose, who is deputy leader of Oxfordshire County Council and chairman of the Joint Delivery Board for the project's western section, said: “East West Rail is one of the top three rail investment projects in the UK. Compared to other projects, it is relatively low cost project that will provide an exceptional return on investment and benefits to the communities it will serve. When the Consortium handed its costed Prospectus across to Government in 2011 the scheme was forecast to give back £6 for every £1 spent, and have recouped its cost within five years of operating. It’s also forecast to deliver wider economic benefit to the tune of £200 million per year.

“Last year Chiltern Railways started services from the new Oxford Parkway station to London Marylebone via Bicester Village. The service has been an extraordinary success and has already carried more than one million passengers. This service will start operating from and to Oxford city centre within a matter of weeks.

“It’s vital that momentum is maintained and we build on this success to deliver the next phase of East West Rail, from Bicester to Bedford, and Milton Keynes to Aylesbury, so that train services can provide the much-needed connectivity between these key areas of economic activity and population. This is the critical next step in re-establishing the key strategic link between Oxford and Cambridge.

“There is overwhelming support from the public, the business community and investors. We need to crack on and get it built so we can realise the opportunities it presents to boost the economy, create new jobs, support housing growth and improve the quality of life of people in the region.

“Following a period of uncertainty over delays due to pressure on the national rail budget, we’re optimistic that Government will now follow through on its commitment by making funds available for earliest possible completion. We continue to work closely with Department for Transport and Network Rail to make this happen. We look forward to having a clear, realistic and accelerated delivery programme by January.”

The Chiltern Railways service from London Marylebone is set to be extended from Oxford Parkway to the city's main station next month

 

[LTJ87]

The National Infrastructure Commission has published its interim report on the East-West corridor:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...pportunity-for-britains-silicon-valley-armitt

This interim report makes practical recommendations to that end:

Government should go ahead with East West Rail’s initial phase, a new link cutting journey times by more than half on the route from Oxford to Bedford and Milton Keynes, ensuring it is delivered before 2024; and it should invest in developing as soon as possible detailed plans for both the next phase of East West Rail (which would complete the link to Cambridge) and for a new Oxford-Cambridge Expressway.

 

[The Planner]

So it has reported what is already happening then?

 

[Andyjs247]

So it has reported what is already happening then?

Sounds like a direct request to HMG basically to provide £100m of funding for EWR2 in advance of the autumn statement next week (instead of waiting for CP6). In particular it would allow them to get on with the job around Claydon - where HS2 is going to have its Maintenance depot and major construction. Not doing the EWR2 work risks increasing HS2's costs.

Page 47 of the National Infrastructure Commission Report that LTJ87 linked is quite interesting...

Given the strong strategic and economic case for the EWR Western Section, and its potential to unlock a step-change in housing development, the Commission believes that the project should proceed without further delay.

4.13 Work to develop the remaining elements of the Western Section is only part funded within Network Rail’s current ‘Control Period’ (Control Period 5 (2014-2019)). Network Rail is resourced, within this period, to develop a single option for the route, and to develop options for a delivery strategy. Funding for Control Period 6 (2019-24), where detailed design and construction is planned to be undertaken – has yet to be confirmed.

4.14 The EWR project’s complex interaction with HS2 also presents a risk of further delay:

l The planned route of HS2 crosses EWR in two places and runs alongside the existing route from Aylesbury to the Calvert junction.
l There is an HS2 construction base at the Calvert Junction, which will serve as a maintenance base once construction is complete.
l There is also a waste site near the Calvert junction which is likely to enable the disposal of excavated material from arising from the construction of HS2.

4.15 Given the need to access the Calvert construction/maintenance base and the waste disposal site, the HS2 programme assumes that rail access to the junction will be available at all times via the EWR route (either via Oxford or via Aylesbury).

4.16 The HS2 project will blockade sections of the EWR route from 2018 to 2022. The Oxford - Bletchley section will be blockaded in the Calvert area until September 2020, to allow HS2 to develop a new alignment of existing track across the high-speed line. The Aylesbury - Calvert Junction section of EWR will then be blockaded between September 2020 and September 2022. This will allow for the construction of the HS2 track to the south of Calvert Junction.

4.17 If detailed scheme design for the EWR project was advanced, and if
the EWR project had the permissions and a clear commitment to fund construction, then an integrated work programme could be developed allowing EWR and HS2 to be built between Aylesbury and Calvert at the same time. But without an integrated work programme, the only option for EWR would be to take possession of the Aylesbury - Calvert line after the HS2 blockade is lifted: blocking the line again and delivering an operational rail service from c.2025 at the earliest. This would also preclude the EWR route being used for HS2 construction waste, leading to a material increase in HS2 costs.

 

[Stuart-h]

any one got any uptodate news on weather phase 2 is going to start or is it still on hold?

 

[The Planner]

Nothing is likely to happen before CP6 2019.

 

[AM9]

Nothing is likely to happen before CP6 2019.

Has the government just decided to press ahead with road improvements allowing them to kick EW rail into the long grass:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38041466

There will also be £27m of funding for an expressway connecting Oxford, Milton Keynes and Cambridge, following the National Infrastructure Commission's recommendation to back the project.

It seems that the road lobby have just persuaded willing ears that more roads solve the problems of EW travel.

 

[BananaRepublic]

Has the government just decided to press ahead with road improvements allowing them to kick EW rail into the long grass:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38041466

It seems that the road lobby have just persuaded willing ears that more roads solve the problems of EW travel.

The road improvement is desperately needed, irrespective of EW rail being completed. While it would be very useful, the rail link cannot hope to satisfy all the transport needs between these different areas.

Whether this announcement will lead to a further setback in EW rail, is yet to be seen.

 

[daodao]

The road improvement is desperately needed, irrespective of EW rail being completed. While it would be very useful, the rail link cannot hope to satisfy all the transport needs between these different areas.

Whether this announcement will lead to a further setback in EW rail, is yet to be seen.

The Bletchley-Bicester link is likely to reopen eventually, creating a useful through route from Oxford to Bedford, linking the GW/West Coast/Midland main lines. However, the announcement of this road enhancement probably kicks any possible new line from Bedford to Cambridge, which would be very expensive to build and of limited benefit, into the long grass.

 

[Andyjs247]

£27m doesn't buy much. It is for further studies. There isn't a preferred route yet for an expressway between Oxford and Milton Keynes and there certainly isn't a single line on a map to draw. For example the NIC report showed options to the south of Oxford and Bicester closer to Abingdon and Thame. I'd say from the M1 to Cambridge is fairly well defined though. The same report asked for £10m to develop a single rail option for the Bedford-Sandy-Cambridge corridor. The NIC had this to say...

Further work on the Expressway is not resourced beyond the current Strategic Studies programme. Investment will be required to enable work to progress. If resources were brought forward in 2017-18 then, subject to the development of a compelling strategic plan for the corridor that can inform national decisions on the prioritisation and phasing of both the Expressway and East West Rail schemes, construction could potentially begin before the end of the RIS 2 period (2024-25).

Recommendation 6: The government should commit £27m to the end of 2018/19 to fund the next phase of development work on the Oxford-Cambridge Expressway study, allowing the detailed design process to begin as soon as possible.

The map showing broad options for the road scheme is on page 52 of the report.

 

[ac6000cw]

£27m doesn't buy much. It is for further studies. There isn't a preferred route yet for an expressway between Oxford and Milton Keynes and there certainly isn't a single line on a map to draw. For example the NIC report showed options to the south of Oxford and Bicester closer to Abingdon and Thame. I'd say from the M1 to Cambridge is fairly well defined though. The same report asked for £10m to develop a single rail option for the Bedford-Sandy-Cambridge corridor.

As a cost comparison, the Cambridge to Huntington A14 upgrade scheme is costing £1.2 to £1.8 billion for 23 miles of new and rebuilt road, so even if you spent the £27m on 'shovels in the ground' it wouldn't buy you much - a couple of junction improvements maybe.

 

[CdBrux]

Both projects have been in development for a few years now. So this announcement on additional funding to further develop the road project should not mean anything for the rail project.

 

[deltic08]

Both projects have been in development for a few years now. So this announcement on additional funding to further develop the road project should not mean anything for the rail project.

Oh yes it does, it is a smack in the face for rail as road is given preference again over rail. Oxford-Cambridge coach operators must be laughing their socks off as they can now compete on time as well as price with East-West Rail. Profit on a plate.

 

[snowball]

Oh yes it does, it is a smack in the face for rail as road is given preference again over rail. Oxford-Cambridge coach operators must be laughing their socks off as they can now compete on time as well as price with East-West Rail. Profit on a plate.

I don't think the "now" is accurate. It will be years before construction starts on any road sections not yet extant. All the statutory processes have yet to happen.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

In the days when this Varsity line was operating, how did it serve Bletchley, was the flyover built then and if so was there a high level platform for through trains from Oxford to Cambridge, or was it a sort of flat crossing across the main LNWR/LMS lines using the main platforms?

I presume now they would either have to build high level platforms on the flyover or omit calling at Bletchley, or I suppose the trains could bypass there going to MKC, reversing there and again at Bletchley to continue towards Bedford and beyond.?

 

[edwin_m]

In the days when this Varsity line was operating, how did it serve Bletchley, was the flyover built then and if so was there a high level platform for through trains from Oxford to Cambridge, or was it a sort of flat crossing across the main LNWR/LMS lines using the main platforms?

I presume now they would either have to build high level platforms on the flyover or omit calling at Bletchley, or I suppose the trains could bypass there going to MKC, reversing there and again at Bletchley to continue towards Bedford and beyond.?

There were never any platforms on the flyover - it was intended to be part of an inter-regional route for freight. Trains used the platforms at ground level - not sure if there was a bay/loop to the west of the WCML where Oxford-Bletchley trains could terminate, but the few Oxford-Cambridge through trains would have crossed the WCML on the flat.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't think the "now" is accurate. It will be years before construction starts on any road sections not yet extant. All the statutory processes have yet to happen.

But how do the timescales for the road compare with those for extending the railway from Bedford to Cambridge?

 

[coppercapped]

In the days when this Varsity line was operating, how did it serve Bletchley, was the flyover built then and if so was there a high level platform for through trains from Oxford to Cambridge, or was it a sort of flat crossing across the main LNWR/LMS lines using the main platforms?

I presume now they would either have to build high level platforms on the flyover or omit calling at Bletchley, or I suppose the trains could bypass there going to MKC, reversing there and again at Bletchley to continue towards Bedford and beyond.?

The flyover was built as a Modernisation Plan scheme to route through freight around, rather than through, London. The was also to be a large marshalling yard just to the west of Bletchley at Swanbourne - but the plans were abandoned in the light of falling freight traffic. The flyover has been a white elephant ever since it was built.

The line was never really operated as a through route, although there were a couple of trains a day which went through in the late 50s, early 60s which I used a few times when I was getting interested in transport. (I had some, now long dead, relations living near Islip). The trains were painfully slow 2 car Cravens units which rattled badly...and they crossed the main line on the flat. It was as quick - if not quicker depending on the time of one's journey - to get from Oxford to Cambridge via Paddington and Kings Cross and a lot more comfortable!

Essentially the LMS and later BR operated the route as two independent branch lines which happened to meet at Bletchley. Even the connections from one to the other were not ideal.

 

[DarloRich]

Has the government just decided to press ahead with road improvements allowing them to kick EW rail into the long grass:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38041466



It seems that the road lobby have just persuaded willing ears that more roads solve the problems of EW travel.

not at all :roll: £27m buys next to nothing. It wont even give you detailed design!

The roads between MK & Oxford are poor.

 

[muddythefish]

Has the government just decided to press ahead with road improvements allowing them to kick EW rail into the long grass:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38041466



It seems that the road lobby have just persuaded willing ears that more roads solve the problems of EW travel.

Fully what I am expecting.

 

[Hadders]

Road schemes in this country take jut as long as rail schemes to get going. Just look at the M1/M6/A14 replacement junction - it's taken 15 years from original plans through to opening. Ridiculous situation for such a strategic junction on the road network.

In truth both the road and rail links between Oxford and Cambridge need improving,

As for £27 million pounds on the roads - it wouldn't even sort out Black Cat!

 

[Bletchleyite]

There were never any platforms on the flyover - it was intended to be part of an inter-regional route for freight. Trains used the platforms at ground level - not sure if there was a bay/loop to the west of the WCML where Oxford-Bletchley trains could terminate, but the few Oxford-Cambridge through trains would have crossed the WCML on the flat.

I don't believe so. Bletchley did have a north facing bay (for parcels I believe) but not south-facing. Of course it was nowhere near as busy then as now.

If you didn't want to build platforms on the flyover the easiest way would be go to (Aylesbury/Oxford)-MKC (reverse)-BLY (reverse)-Bedford - but that would be quite frustrating for passengers, I'd imagine.