East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

[route:oxford]

Is there potential for the E-W to operate between Winslow and Oxford in the first instance as part of a staged opening?

 

[cle]

And not much future proofing for growth on the Aylesbury route, or the Marston line...

 

[swt_passenger]

Is there potential for the E-W to operate between Winslow and Oxford in the first instance as part of a staged opening?

It's always possible that they'll be ready to open from Bletchley first - which end will be nearer?

 

[The Planner]

Considering the need for HS2 spoil trains then if it was to be phased (which I dont think it will) then the Bletchley end would come first.

 

[Chris125]

Many of us have said previously that sections of the Spine will get quietly dropped. It has never been funded.

I can't see anything being dropped, far easier just to push more into CP6 as we've already seen with the Bedford-Bletchley upgrade.

Chris

 

[MidlandMainlie]

I can't see anything being dropped, far easier just to push more into CP6 as we've already seen with the Bedford-Bletchley upgrade.

Chris

Plus if the 3rd rail is "life expired" then it isn't going to last for ever so conversion to OHLE or replacement like for like will have to happen eventually.

 

[The Planner]

I can't see anything being dropped, far easier just to push more into CP6 as we've already seen with the Bedford-Bletchley upgrade.

Chris

It will get to the point where we wont be able to deliver the CP6 work if we keep deferring from CP5. I still don't believe the Spine will come to fruition in the extent it was originally proposed.

 

[midlandred]

Is that new bridge only capable of taking single track? I realise the initial plan is only for a single track reopening but that's a bit short sighted if future traffic increases require redoubling between Aylesbury and Claydon.

Yes, the bridge walls are set up for a second span to be added

 

[Hophead]

It will get to the point where we wont be able to deliver the CP6 work if we keep deferring from CP5. I still don't believe the Spine will come to fruition in the extent it was originally proposed.

It always seemed to me that this "Electric Freight Spine" was more the product of the enthusiasm of someone at the Department for Transport rather than to meet any perceived need by, or demand from, the freight operators who might be expected to benefit.

Not entirely unlike a recent procurement exercise for Inter-City trains, you could say.

 

[edwin_m]

With Lib Dems being anti-roads and pro bus regulation and the Tories the other way round, I wonder if the only thing the Coalition agreed on in transport was rail electrification. So when good news was called for they just announced another one of those.

 

[route:oxford]

With Lib Dems being anti-roads and pro bus regulation and the Tories the other way round, I wonder if the only thing the Coalition agreed on in transport was rail electrification. So when good news was called for they just announced another one of those.

Depends on where in the country you are.

In Oxford the North Oxford Lib-Dems are campaigning against rail electrification, the East-West link and associated improvements.

Lives of residents in £M+ houses are being ruined and views from Port Meadow (a fairly mediocre area of scrub land popular with doggers and dog walkers) industrialised.

 

[midlandred]

A work compound has been set up at Virney Junction to enable exploratory work along the trackbed to be carried out by contractors.When the work has finished the compound will close and move to another location.

Travelled in the area yesterday - a few photos here
Noticed the presence of new trespass warning signs at some locations

Also 56301 at Quainton Road yesterday

Latest from Oxford Parkway added in same link

Latest from Islip also added in same link

 

[MK Tom]

Travelled in the area yesterday - a few photos here
Noticed the presence of new trespass warning signs at some locations

I'm very curious to see how much of Swanbourne station survives after a double track 100mph electrified line has been built through it. I can't see that being fit between the original platforms.

 

[TheKnightWho]

It always seemed to me that this "Electric Freight Spine" was more the product of the enthusiasm of someone at the Department for Transport rather than to meet any perceived need by, or demand from, the freight operators who might be expected to benefit.

Not entirely unlike a recent procurement exercise for Inter-City trains, you could say.

Enthusiasts blame the government for being enthusiasts when they don't do what they want?

Who do you think has the studies/calculations here, and who is just relying on "common sense"?

 

[jimm]

It always seemed to me that this "Electric Freight Spine" was more the product of the enthusiasm of someone at the Department for Transport rather than to meet any perceived need by, or demand from, the freight operators who might be expected to benefit.

Not entirely unlike a recent procurement exercise for Inter-City trains, you could say.

So someone at DafT has what looks like a half-decent idea for once, a bit of long-term vision - so let's knock it...

I'm sure the freight operators are in favour - just so long as no one expects them to foot the bill.

Do you really think that DBS and Freightliner are so mad-keen on diesels that they wouldn't use electric traction between the likes of Manchester/Leeds and Southampton if the option was there?

And while the boss of GBRf was a bit sniffy about the electric spine idea in a recent interview with Rail, he was all for wiring Birmingham-Nuneaton-Leicester-Peterborough-Ipswich-Felixstowe. Funnily enough, his company operates a lot of container trains out of Felixstowe to terminals up the ECML and WCML, but none from Southampton...

Both ideas make a lot of sense, along with East West reopening, Transpennine and South Yorkshire electrification, etc, etc. Connect up existing electrified lines, those due to be wired, such as GWML and MML, and hey presto, you have a half-decent electrified network, with various links that avoid the London area and offer additional diversion options, and make more widespread use of electric traction on freight a realistic proposition.

 

[The Planner]

The problem you have is persuading the FOCs to invest in electrics, I suspect DB and FL aren't quite as willing to go for it like DRS have with 68s and 88s. GBRf do have a bit of a point though as the F2N scheme has never really delivered.

 

[aylesbury]

When the East West link is open the opportunities for travel by passengers in Nth Bucks will be amazing plus commuting will rise on routes never thought of now.Winslow will undoubtley treble in size once electric services start also the Chiltern mainline will be wired and hopefuly High Wycombe Aylesbury Calvert all of which will cause a rise in travel and a boost to the economy, pity its taken so long to start all this work.

 

[jimm]

The problem you have is persuading the FOCs to invest in electrics, I suspect DB and FL aren't quite as willing to go for it like DRS have with 68s and 88s. GBRf do have a bit of a point though as the F2N scheme has never really delivered.

It's chicken and egg stuff though, isn't it? They aren't going to use more electric traction until it makes business sense - and that relies on there being more wires in place to allow end-to-end electric running.

Given the vagaries of when the electric spine may actuality become a reality, I wouldn't expect anyone to place loco orders until there is some clarity on when there might be work for such locos - and DB has a fair number of underemployed 90s and 92s on its books already, so may not be in any hurry to buy new machinery.

But if East West is wired up by 2019, offering the possibility of 92s running all the way to Southampton from Glasgow, Manchester and Birmingham on 25kv and 750v - assuming SWML power supplies are up to the job - then a changeover may start to happen.

 

[Class 170101]

But if East West is wired up by 2019, offering the possibility of 92s running all the way to Southampton from Glasgow, Manchester and Birmingham on 25kv and 750v - assuming SWML power supplies are up to the job - then a changeover may start to happen.

This is already possible via South West Lines to London thence the West London Line then WCML from Willesden.

 

[jimm]

This is already possible via South West Lines to London thence the West London Line then WCML from Willesden.

Apart from the fairly obvious problem of trying to path freights on the southern end of the WCML and through the west of London, which is why they go via Oxford and Reading - landslips permitting.

And container services to/from Birmingham and Leeds, to take a couple of examples, use terminals on non-electrified lines.

 

[swt_passenger]

This is already possible via South West Lines to London thence the West London Line then WCML from Willesden.

It isn't gauge cleared to W10 though, so the route isn't a practical alternative even if paths were possible; the canal aqueduct at Farnborough is not going to be easy to clear.

 

[edwin_m]

It isn't gauge cleared to W10 though, so the route isn't a practical alternative even if paths were possible; the canal aqueduct at Farnborough is not going to be easy to clear.

Southampton trains leave the WCML at Basingstoke then the normal route is via the triangle west of Reading to Didcot, Oxford and Leamington. During the landslip they are running through Reading station and transferring from the GWML to the WCML in the Acton/Willesden area. When Crossrail starts running this diversion is likely to become much more difficult, and the WCML isn't exactly empty either especially in the suburban area, so East West will provide a useful alternative to the Leamington route in the future.

 

[swt_passenger]

Southampton trains leave the WCML at Basingstoke then the normal route is via the triangle west of Reading to Didcot, Oxford and Leamington. During the landslip they are running through Reading station and transferring from the GWML to the WCML in the Acton/Willesden area. When Crossrail starts running this diversion is likely to become much more difficult, and the WCML isn't exactly empty either especially in the suburban area, so East West will provide a useful alternative to the Leamington route in the future.

I was referring only to the point that the SWML route east of Basingstoke to the WLL via Farnborough, then the Byfleet Curve and Kew etc is not W10, which is why that route isn't such a freight artery as Class 170101 might have been suggesting.

 

[Class 170101]

I was referring only to the point that the SWML route east of Basingstoke to the WLL via Farnborough, then the Byfleet Curve and Kew etc is not W10, which is why that route isn't such a freight artery as Class 170101 might have been suggesting.

I wasn't suggesting the route was an actual freight artery. Merely that it is possible to run a Class 92 all the way from Southampton to Scotland and doesn't need to wait for wiring between Basingstoke and WCML via Reading

 

[edwin_m]

Fairly sure a 92 can't run on the SWML due to either insufficient power supply or signalling interference or both. Either would be very expensive to resolve.

 

[jimm]

Fairly sure a 92 can't run on the SWML due to either insufficient power supply or signalling interference or both. Either would be very expensive to resolve.

I did qualify my initial mention of 92s by saying if the power supply was up to handling them.

But I assume the new SWML signalling is/will be immunised as a matter of course and the need to renew the power supply at some point not too far into the future was among the justifications for the electric spine plan to include 25kv conversion from Basingstoke to Southampton. You are going to have to spend money one way or the other, so who knows what might happen down the line.

 

[edwin_m]

The signalling is probably OK west of Basingstoke as that has been re-signalled fairly recently. The Waterloo signalling covering the inner suburban area is older and likely to be more prone to interference, which is probably one reason why DC-AC conversion is less of a priority east of Basingstoke. Conversion to AC would probably give the ability to run 92s at no extra cost, but retention of DC supply might mean that 92s couldn't run without more money being spent on extra upgrades.

 

[Andyjs247]

In the light of recent announcements regarding the MML electrification being "paused", GWML electrification over budget and behind schedule, and Oxford remodelling/resignalling seemingly also delayed, what's actually happening with East West Rail electrification?

It's all gone very quiet of late. EWR ought to be one of the easier and cheaper bits to wire up, especially between Bicester and Bletchley without the constraints of trying to do the wiring with trains running and having limited time for possessions. I suspect Bletchley - Bedford electrification has been kicked into the long grass for now, but Oxford to Bletchley wiring was supposed to be a priority. Are there any spare DMUs that could be used to run a service from Oxford to Milton Keynes if electrification doesn't happen by 2019?

 

[The Planner]

Considering they arent out of GRIP 3 yet I doubt that anything is off the table.

 

[Andyjs247]

Hi,

Took these photos this morning from the bridge at Tubbs Lane, Bicester. I was surprised to see what appears to be a number of steel tubular piles of the type used for electrification masts. I was thinking it was too soon for any signs of electrification to be seen on the ground anywhere on EWR, not least because of the delays elsewhere and supposed lack of design/planning resources on this scheme to date.

There are 3 piles on the Up side (towards Oxford) west of the bridge and another pair to the east, one either side of the track adjacent to Gavray Junction. I guess this could be to support a portal structure - or possibly a signal gantry - or a pair of cantilevers.

But the other 3 piles, being regularly spaced, do look to be for electrification. I can't see that you'd need that many signals in such close proximity. Also I did notice a new pair of (still to be commissioned) signals on the Chiltern line immediately to the north of the new Bicester South Junction. The line is bi-di here so there is a signal either side. They appear to be of the newer lightweight modular type although I couldn't see clearly from distance. I doubt whether this type of signal would need such substantial piles for foundations.

All of which suggests to me that these are indeed the first electrification piles. They seem to have undertaken more drainage work recently, judging by the fresh stone. Lots of orangemen around today. I couldn't see any new signals on the EWR part of the route yet but I'd suspect they will be using the same lightweight modular signals. All the signalling is due to be connected up and the Bicester chord completed by mid-September.