East West Rail (EWR) Consultation - speculation

[HSTEd]

Freight:
In the document "our approach to freight" - it outlines a long-term requirement for up to 10 additional freight trains/day each way between Oxford and the WCML.

Whilst I'm very excited by the prospects for batteries, even for freight locomotives, it might suggest that full electrification of this section could be a better option. A new substation at Quainton/Claydon could also perhaps feed other future electrification including around Oxford or Aylesbury.

However, the document does make it clear that this is what EWR is thinking about in the absence of other upgrades, so being more pessimistic, they might not be considering this impact because their terms of reference assume that all freight is going to need diesel haulage anyway South of Oxford.

10 freight trains a day is essentially nothing in terms of justifying electrification.
And even if it was electrified, I am very doubtful the freight operators are going to give up their Class 66s until/unless the government takes them away.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think indoor skiing will move the needle on rail use though. Most will drive, but maybe people from 'Anglia' are going already. Who knows, but edge.... Universal however will definitely have an impact, and many will come via MKC/Bletchley I'm sure.

While I don't doubt that there'll be on site provision, there are well over a thousand hotel rooms, if not more, within walking distance of MKC station, at all price ranges (but typically not that expensive for that price range at weekends because they're mostly there for business users and Silverstone weekend). Considerably more than there are in Bedford. Potentially a lot of people will look to stay in Milton Keynes and travel to the Universal site each day. I doubt they will want to change at Bletchley *and* Bedford* (and equally don't doubt that if EWR fails to provide someone will put a bus service on commercially).

There are hotels within walking distance of Bletchley station but they're at the budget pub/B&B end of things and nowhere near the capacity available in the centre.

* Noting that the 5-station proposal is likely to go ahead, which means no Kempston Hardwick - the station for the park will therefore be Wixams which is so close to Kempston Hardwick that it in effect replaces it.

 

[weeklycommuter]

It's never likely to have high demand is basically the sum up. What you do is something almost nobody else would even consider doing, they'd buy a bicycle in preference to it, let alone a car.

Would a new Eastern entrance to the new high level platforms at Bletchley Station be a more useful alternative to Fenny Stratford Station?

 

[Verulamius]

The freight maps in the technical report have a big ring around Ely as a constrained pinch point.



Could Network Rail be thinking about the Denbigh East curve as an alternative to the Ely complications?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Would a new Eastern entrance to the new high level platforms at Bletchley Station be a more useful alternative to Fenny Stratford Station?

It would help, certainly.

 

[bspahh]

The freight maps in the technical report have a big ring around Ely as a constrained pinch point.

View attachment 169150

Could Network Rail be thinking about the Denbigh East curve as an alternative to the Ely complications?

I don't think its an alternative to Ely, but a possible as well as.

Its single track between Soham to Ely, but a lot easier to double track than the route through to Cambridge, where Warren Hill tunnel is single track.

Getting paths through Cambridge would also more difficult than through Ely.

 

[Magdalia]

I have been reading the oral evidence of the House of Commons Transport select committee meeting of 11 December 2024, which is here:

https://committees.parliament.uk/oralevidence/15124/pdf/

Transport Committee Oral evidence: Rail services and infrastructure, 445 Wednesday 11 December 2024 HC Ordered by the House of Commons to be published on 11 December 2024. Watch the meeting Members present: Ruth Cadbury (Chair); Steff Aquarone; Dr Scott Arthur; Catherine Atkinson; Olly Glover; Alex Mayer; Baggy Shanker; Rebecca Smith; Laurence Turner. Questions 1–77 Witnesses I: Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill, Minister for Rail, Department for Transport; Conrad Bailey CBE, Director General for Public Transport and Local Group, Department for Transport; Alex Hynes, Director General for Rail Services Group, Department for Transport; and Alan Over, Director General for Major Rail Projects Group, Department for Transport

Q50 was specifically about East West Rail and I thought it worth repeating the answer in full here:

Q50 Alex Mayer: Finally on East West Rail, is the East West Rail economic growth board still a thing?

Alex Hynes: I believe so, yes. East West Rail essentially is a jobs, growth and housing project. It has very strong support from across Government, Treasury and MHCLG, because of the impact on growth and housing. That cross-Government approach to the project is at the heart of it. One of the things that really impressed me when I did a site visit of East West Rail recently was how the jobs, growth and housing elements are an integral part of the project. Other railway projects could learn from that. Both the East West Rail company and the Government have this vision, and Departments are working together to make sure we maximise the potential of the new railway

For a long time I have been banging on about East West Rail being for growth, jobs and housing. It is good to see that DfT recognise that it is not just a transport project.

 

[BrianW]

I have been reading the oral evidence of the House of Commons Transport select committee meeting of 11 December 2024, which is here:

https://committees.parliament.uk/oralevidence/15124/pdf/

Q50 was specifically about East West Rail and I thought it worth repeating the answer in full here:




For a long time I have been banging on about East West Rail being for growth, jobs and housing. It is good to see that DfT recognise that it is not just a transport project.

So, does this indicate support from the 'new' government for the private company outside of Great British Railways? Is EWR somewhat akin to the Metropolitan railway and its development of 'growth, jobs and housing' aka Metroland?

 

[Magdalia]

So, does this indicate support from the 'new' government for the private company outside of Great British Railways? Is EWR somewhat akin to the Metropolitan railway and its development of 'growth, jobs and housing' aka Metroland?

The comparison with the Metropolitan Railway is an interesting one, and I don't know enough about that to give a definitive answer.

What I can say is that there are other players too, notably the Cambridge Growth Company and the New Towns Taskforce.

My suspicion is that the whole Cambridge area growth jobs and housing project will be driven forward by something like the London Docklands Development Corporation. That might evolve from the Cambridge Growth Company or from yet another new body.

 

[Nottingham59]

The comparison with the Metropolitan Railway is an interesting one, and I don't know enough about that to give a definitive answer.

What I can say is that there are other players too, notably the Cambridge Growth Company and the New Towns Taskforce.

My suspicion is that the whole Cambridge area growth jobs and housing project will be driven forward by something like the London Docklands Development Corporation. That might evolve from the Cambridge Growth Company or from yet another new body.

The area around Cambridge clearly needs something like a Development Corporation as the planning authority and prepared to use powers that already exist under New Towns legislation to get things moving, and to address the water supply issue.

 

[mwmbwls]

Have any indicative point to point journey times ever been cited in both the sections of the route that have been completed and in the yet to be built sections?

 

[The Planner]

Have any indicative point to point journey times ever been cited in both the sections of the route that have been completed and in the yet to be built sections?

Clearly Oxford to MK is known. The rest will be targets at the moment.

 

[swt_passenger]

Have any indicative point to point journey times ever been cited in both the sections of the route that have been completed and in the yet to be built sections?

42 mins achieved Oxford to Milton Keynes according to NR press releases. It was usually stated as ‘under 45 mins‘ during the construction phase, but it’s not really speculation on that section anymore if training runs are taking place.

 

[gallafent]

Have any indicative point to point journey times ever been cited in both the sections of the route that have been completed and in the yet to be built sections?

This is very interesting to me too! In a sense, my consultation responses will be primarily based on this. As for the wiggly route from Bedford to Cambridge, from this perspective, the less said the better. I guess that for me driving to Cambourne on the fast, dualled, A421, and using it as a Park and Ride _might conceivably_ make sense, depending on journey time Cambourne to Cambridge (central) ... anyway ...

I'm interested in Oxford <-> Bletchley (for interchange to/from Leighton Buzzard), Bletchley (again coming from LBZ) <-> Cambridge (or Bedford <-> Cambridge, coming from Harlington), and Oxford <-> Cambridge. For each choice, whichever of the available options gives me the fastest journeys on those EWR flows (OXF<->BLY, BLY<->CBG, BDM<->CBG, OXF<->CBG), is the one which I am in favour of! In particular (right now) I haven't seen what the differences will be regarding the two fundamental options for the Marston Vale line (Existing vs Consolidated) mean for the journey time between Bletchley and Bedford, which is the only important aspect of the difference between the two options, from my perspective!

 

[Magdalia]

Have any indicative point to point journey times ever been cited in both the sections of the route that have been completed and in the yet to be built sections?

Yes. They are in the Technical Report figure 4 on page 34.

These are:

Oxford-Milton Keynes 45 minutes
Oxford-Bedford 60-65 minutes
Oxford-Cambridge 95-100 minutes
Bedford-Cambridge 35 minutes

 

[Iron_Duke]

East-West Rail has been the subject of some unfavourable commentary in the railway press and other organs in the last few weeks. Roger Ford had, an unusual, dig at the company especially about its attitude towards the rest of the railway industry, it's record on "innovation" and the company's former "Innovation Manager". Criticism over the number of people employed by the company has been made in the current edition of Private Eye too. There must be something about how the company operates that's getting under the skin of certain journalists!

 

[BrianW]

East-West Rail has been the subject of some unfavourable commentary in the railway press and other organs in the last few weeks. Roger Ford had, an unusual, dig at the company especially about its attitude towards the rest of the railway industry, it's record on "innovation" and the company's former "Innovation Manager". Criticism over the number of people employed by the company has been made in the current edition of Private Eye too. There must be something about how the company operates that's getting under the skin of certain journalists!

Are they going to be a part of (or apart from?) Great British Railways?

Are they to be nationalised?

A paragon of private enterprise?

 

[Nottingham59]

There must be something about how the company operates that's getting under the skin of certain journalists!

Or maybe the criticisms are justified?

 

[fishwomp]

East-West Rail has been the subject of some unfavourable commentary in the railway press and other organs in the last few weeks. Roger Ford had, an unusual, dig at the company especially about its attitude towards the rest of the railway industry, it's record on "innovation" and the company's former "Innovation Manager". Criticism over the number of people employed by the company has been made in the current edition of Private Eye too. There must be something about how the company operates that's getting under the skin of certain journalists!

It may be fair comment - and MR described it as a "mini HS2" or something like that. After 8 years, we don't know the final route, nor even the stations on Marston Vale or the shape of Bedford itself.

The saving grace is that there is at least something to show from it imminently with the Oxford-Milton Keynes reopening.

It does look like a litany of political announcements, nimby disruption and procrastination. Whatever the causes, it's got to be a learning experience. Perhaps they could've practised by getting this right before committing HS2 .

It's 8 years since the announcement of Chris Grayling - EWR announced, The Guardian, Dec 2016:

Chris Grayling unveils plans for fully privatised rail line​

Single company to own track and run trains on Oxford–Cambridge route in first such operation since 1990s privatisation

.. a year later: December 2017. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...ks-own-silicon-valley-rail-link-on-fast-track is established:

East West Rail will be one of the country’s most strategically important rail projects, with its direct link through the corridor dubbed the UK’s own ‘Silicon Valley’ when it is completed in the mid-2020s.

and here we are in January 2025, and there are no spades in the ground between Bletchley and Bedford where the rail formation is there and in use, and they are still consulting when by now it should be 'doing' - and they are now aiming to get it running by 2030. ( https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/local-news/east-west-rail-update-after-30269806 )

The East West Rail Company has announced an update on the project after Chancellor Rachel Reeves renewed commitments to the project in the Budget on Wednesday (October 30). The update includes plans for partial electrification of the route, which will link Oxford, Milton Keynes, Bedford, and Cambridge.

Ms Reeves said: "We will deliver East West Rail to drive growth between Oxford, Milton Keynes and Cambridge, with the first services running between Oxford, Bletchley and Milton Keynes next year and trains between Oxford and Bedford running by 2030." She did not commit to a deadline for trains between Cambridge and Bedford.

Perhaps the Cambridge end will happen by 2035.

 

[swt_passenger]

The single company to own track and trains never happened. It’s completely normal Network Rail infrastructure with Chiltern as the TOC. I can’t see it changing later, this has been discussed many times in the earlier threads, it would not be a big enough organisation.

IIRC the idea of a separate a mini-TOC also made the early PR about the Northumberland Line, but look at the way that turned out. An absolutely normal set up.

 

[zwk500]

The single company to own track and trains never happened. It’s completely normal Network Rail infrastructure with Chiltern as the TOC.

The single company to own and operate never happened (and was never likely to) but there was a shift from NR leading delivery of a consortium/alliance to having a separate East-West Railway company to focus on the Oxford-Bedford section. The delivered bit has obviously now been handed over to NR.

I can’t see it changing later, this has been discussed many times in the earlier threads, it would not be a big enough organisation.

Agreed, the only change I could see would be the services being moved from Chiltern to LNR when it extends further, if that's slightly more efficient for crewing the longer services. However given that GBR is coming in that may all be moot anyway.

IIRC the idea of a separate a mini-TOC also made the early PR about the Northumberland Line, but look at the way that turned out. An absolutely normal set up.

Ironically, I could see a decent case for the North East section of Northern's services to be split off and run as it's own TOC, but that wouldn't be the Northumberland line on it's own, and is a subject for a different thread.

 

[Magdalia]

After 8 years, we don't know the final route,

The route was decided in 2023.

If you look at the current consultation, the only significant uncertainty on the route is crossing the river at Tempsford.

It's 8 years since the announcement of Chris Grayling

In those years there had been a lot of political uncertainty, especially during the period when Johnson was Prime Minister and Schapps was Transport Secretary. More recently, although Hunt and Gove were positive, Sunak wasn't. This current consultation should have started last summer and was postponed because of the general election.

nor even the stations on Marston Vale or the shape of Bedford itself.

Consultation is an iterative process, and there is still a statutory consultation to come before the Development Control Order application. These will be firmed up for the statutory consultation, on the basis of the responses to this consultation.