East West Main Line - Network Rail's view

[Trog]

Would be somewhat amusing if derivatives of the Bindenburg ended up running to the nearest station to Cardington.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Even MK Central as a station does have a slight flaw as it isn't that central.

It's the main station, the interchange for Avanti and long distance LNR services, and is adjacent to the central business district and about 1km from the main shopping centre with frequent buses. It's far better sited than Bletchley, which is why you'll see, if you look at usage stats, they are far, far higher than Bletchley.

Near enough to the centre for people travelling from further afield such as Oxford, Bicester and Aylesbury, but for people nearer to MK, buses (never mind cars) may still take them closer to where they actually want to go.

There are now no bus services (other than odd once a week type ones, school buses or ones operated by the railway) serving any intermediate Marston Vale station other than I think Fenny Stratford. Woburn Sands once had a half hourly service to MK but it was 5-year planning gain and the money ran out. It's rail or car/taxi (or the useless MK Connect DRT if you can get one, good luck with that).

Winslow doesn't have a frequent bus to MK either. And the X5 is now split at Bedford, so Cambridge doesn't either.

 

[A0]

There are now no bus services (other than odd once a week type ones, school buses or ones operated by the railway) serving any intermediate Marston Vale station other than I think Fenny Stratford. Woburn Sands once had a half hourly service to MK but it was 5-year planning gain and the money ran out. It's rail or car/taxi (or the useless MK Connect DRT if you can get one, good luck with that).

Bow Brickhill from the Caldecotte Lake business park half hourly to the centre. Whilst it doesn't serve the station itself the stop is only about 100 yards away.

Ridgmont gets an hourly bus between MK and Ampthill.

Stewartby gets buses to Bedford.

 

[Cantab26]

Even if you assume that - and of course the government will know exactly what the plan is for Bedford-Cambridge - it still makes sense to electrify Bicester-Bletchley, during construction.

There is no confirmed plan at the moment, at least as far as electrification is concerned. It may well be that the Bletchley to Cambridge section is fully electrified upfront.

However, this idea that some others seem to have that electrification of the entire thing will somehow not cause disruption rather misses the fact that trains are already running on the line at the Oxford end. To say nothing of the fact that the Oxford end is not electrified anyway so you would either have to try to feed everything from the Bletchley end or interfere with HS2 or put in a completely new supply at Oxford.

There is no easy way to electrify the whole line so it is a case of choosing when to incur the pain (and the cost). Part of the analysis which is currently being undertaken is whether it would be more cost effective overall to electrify everything in one go later rather than piecemeal electrification of parts: some now and some later.

 

[Andyjs247]

Oxford to Bicester was rebuilt and gauge-cleared before electrification was deaconed. Towards Bletchley any new structures like the new bridge over the Bicester perimeter road (where I’m stood) have been built with sufficient clearance for overhead wires. The next bridge (which can be seen in the background) is one of those not now being replaced because the line is not now being electrified. It would have needed replacement to give the necessary clearances plus it would also have improved access to Launton village. There are another 4 or 5 structures between here and Bletchley like this not being replaced which will be a barrier to future electrification.

This will have “saved” some money, but there was extra cost involved with redrawing various plans, new environmental statements and extra consultations etc. In the meantime new trains (Class 196 DMUs rumoured) will have to be procured to run the service, whilst there are surplus electric trains being sent for scrap. If electrification does eventually get authorised it will no doubt cost considerably more and and be much more disruptive if the work is done subsequently on the live railway rather than what is essentially a building site.

 

[Class 170101]

No new Class 196s are being procured for East - West Rail. They are being 'borrowed' from West Midlands Railway.

 

[Mikey C]

Bow Brickhill from the Caldecotte Lake business park half hourly to the centre. Whilst it doesn't serve the station itself the stop is only about 100 yards away.

Ridgmont gets an hourly bus between MK and Ampthill.

Stewartby gets buses to Bedford.

Exactly, buses don't need to serve the Marston Vale line stations themselves, they are there to serve houses and shops.

It's the main station, the interchange for Avanti and long distance LNR services, and is adjacent to the central business district and about 1km from the main shopping centre with frequent buses. It's far better sited than Bletchley, which is why you'll see, if you look at usage stats, they are far, far higher than Bletchley.

I'm not comparing the convenience of the MK Central and Bletchley stations, I'm questioning the convenience of MK Central full stop, for local residents just wanting to go into the centre of MK. Why would residents of the wider MK area want to take a train to MK Central, to change to a bus to the centre of town, instead of just taking a bus all the way?

MK is a sprawly type of place anyway. The flexibility of buses to cover more areas makes them hard to compete with for local journeys.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In short, because UK bus operations are dire, and Arriva MK is one of the worst by far. For most inhabitants of these middle class suburbs and villages, they are not even a consideration. If you want them out of their cars, an existing railway line is going to have more chance.

That, or you need lots of clones of Alex Hornby. But if the railway is there and you're subsidising it, it is better to make use of it than pay again for quality bus provision.

 

[Mikey C]

In short, because UK bus operations are dire, and Arriva MK is one of the worst by far. For most inhabitants of these middle class suburbs and villages, they are not even a consideration. If you want them out of their cars, an existing railway line is going to have more chance.

That, or you need lots of clones of Alex Hornby. But if the railway is there and you're subsidising it, it is better to make use of it than pay again for quality bus provision.

Improve the buses then, whether through more subsidy, regulation, nationalisation or whatever.

A fleet of electric buses operating from 5am to midnight is a hell of a lot cheaper than any rail extension or reopening, and more attractive than a rail line if it's far more door to door.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Improve the buses then, whether through more subsidy, regulation, nationalisation or whatever.

A fleet of electric buses operating from 5am to midnight is a hell of a lot cheaper than any rail extension or reopening, and more attractive than a rail line if it's far more door to door.

A fleet of buses is less expensive than extending an existing rail service five miles on existing infrastructure? I very much doubt that.

The curve proposal (which I support) is a slightly different argument, but if EWR does go to Cambridge I think the case is strong.