East Sussex changes from January 2019

[alex397]

A number of bus services in East Sussex are changing in January, mostly ESCC council contracts but also some commercial. Largely down to Compass Travel's financial pressures, and also ESCC - a story repeated across the bus industry of austerity Britain!

"Changes to Compass Travel service from 7 January 2019
Compass Travel is unable to continue to provide all of their current provision of services due to financial pressures. This has been caused by higher fuel and insurance costs, along with reduced levels of income because of declining passenger numbers. The County Council’s own financial pressures mean that we are not able to provide additional funding for bus services.

Several services have few or no changes, with the main alterations affecting the worst performing journeys. Further information can be found in the documents below. Timetable details will be available from Compass Travel’s website "

https://www.eastsussex.gov.uk/roadsandtransport/public/buses/bus-service-changes/

This is quite a shame as Compass Travel have a good reputation, and even they are struggling. East Sussex County Council also appear to be a good council for transport, but are struggling financially thanks to central gov. For a start, there is lots of bus information on their website including timetables and maps - this contrasts hugely with Kent County Council who put very little effort into public transport, and the only information about buses in Kent is a link to the Traveline website.

One interesting thing to point out is the commercial 228/229 service (Jarvis Brook-Crowborough-Tunbridge Wells). Arriva struggled with it, and deregistered it, leaving Seaford & District to replace it. Compass Travel then took it over from Seaford quite recently (along with most of Seaford's other routes). Compass will be reducing it further (incidentally their only route to enter Kent). The route seems a bit of a lost cause! Of course, Brighton & Hove also operate between T Wells and Crowborough on the popular 28 route, but the 228/229 go much further into the Crowborough estates.

 

[pdsalford]

Reading elsewhere on this forum, surely many of the problems faced by Compass are caused by its fare levels - or is it another case of predatory pricing, which was pretty rife when I lived in the area at the tail end of the 20th century.

 

[swt class 450]

Bus services in East Sussex have been severely reduced over in recent years due to all the cuts by ESCC.

It looks like the latest changes to the 228/229 mean that it will now have a PVR of just one vehicle instead of two vehicles (it was once half hourly with a PVR of four vehicles in the Arriva days). Personally i think that Go Ahead should divert some of their 28/29 journeys via Crowborough railway station and Jarvis Brook seeing as the 228/229 journeys have become so reduced.

Compass Bus keeps reducing their services more and more every year. These days almost all of their East Sussex services are commercial as ESCC has withdrawn the funding.

For example if you go back about five years the 121 (Lewes to Newick) and 123 (Lewes to Newhaven) were hourly and ran until after 20:00. Now they are only two hourly and run until only around 18:00. All the Sunday services and many of the Saturday services on most of their routes have also been withdrawn. The 125 from Lewes to Eastbourne via Alfriston used to be two hourly (and originally hourly) and now we are down to just two journeys a day in each direction.

The 231 (Uckfield to Etchingham) was also previously hourly up until about five years ago and used to have through buses to Heathfield. Now it is only every two or three hours. The 261 was also much more frequent and the Chelwood Gate section has now been cut.

Another more extreme example is the villages of: Brightling, Cade Street, Cackle Street, Chapel Cross, Dallington, Netherfield, Punnetts Town, Rushlake Green, Three Cups Corner, Turners Green, Twelve Oaks, Woods Corner, (all located between Battle and Heathfield) which have gone from having an hourly bus service on weekdays (and two hourly at weekends) in the early 2000s to having just eight journeys a week (two in each direction on Tuesday and two in each direction on Thursday) in 2018. They have gone from having 144 journeys a week in 2004 to just 8 journeys a week now in 2018.

I'm not sure if the ridiculously high fares charged by Compass Bus have much to do with it as the majority of their passengers are OAPs so won't pay for a ticket. I think it is mostly down to ESCC having stopped funding all these routes about five years ago meaning that Compass Bus has to carry on operating them commercially.

It's a shame as ESCC are indeed quite good when it comes to public transport but i think it is the government to blame for this.

 

[duncombec]

Bus services in East Sussex have been severely reduced over in recent years due to all the cuts by ESCC.

I'm not sure if the ridiculously high fares charged by Compass Bus have much to do with it as the majority of their passengers are OAPs so won't pay for a ticket. I think it is mostly down to ESCC having stopped funding all these routes about five years ago meaning that Compass Bus has to carry on operating them commercially.

I think this is more likely to be the case. Because the majority of passengers are ENCTS holders, and they are now taken on commercially because there is no council funding, Compass has to charge that much, and cut that much, to actually afford to run the service. After all - if these routes really were money-spinners in their previous format, they wouldn't have needed council support to start with!

Don't get me wrong - as a non car-driver with more years to go until I get my bus pass than I have yet been around, I despair at fares and cuts of this sort. But if the vehicle is only carrying fresh air it is hard for anyone, be it community transport, subsidised, commercial or even nationalised, to justify it.

 

[Robertj21a]

I think this is more likely to be the case. Because the majority of passengers are ENCTS holders, and they are now taken on commercially because there is no council funding, Compass has to charge that much, and cut that much, to actually afford to run the service. After all - if these routes really were money-spinners in their previous format, they wouldn't have needed council support to start with!

Don't get me wrong - as a non car-driver with more years to go until I get my bus pass than I have yet been around, I despair at fares and cuts of this sort. But if the vehicle is only carrying fresh air it is hard for anyone, be it community transport, subsidised, commercial or even nationalised, to justify it.

True. Some of these could possibly end up as some form of Dial a Ride but I'm not sure there's anything similar yet set up in that part of the country ?. Otherwise, as is now common elsewhere, the services will simply be withdrawn before too long.

 

[swt class 450]

Sadly i can certainly see it going that way. In ten years time from now (and possibly a lot earlier) i reckon a lot of these villages will have no bus services at all. It's a shame as all it will do is increase car usage and make the elderly much more isolated. But with the constant cuts by the government this means that the councils and bus operators don't really have any other option.

 

[duncombec]

Thinking about it, I have a vague memory that something similar happened with Pennine, Skipton: the cash fares were ridiculously high (£11 springs to mind) because they were being paid peanuts for the majority of service users - and twice as much in one direction as the other!

I still lost all colour from my face when told the fare between Skipton and Settle a few years ago on Kirby Lonsdale - that was about £8 for 40 hair-raising minutes each way - and notably involves North Yorkshire, whose derisory rates of ENCTS reimbursement are well-known.

 

[Busaholic]

Thinking about it, I have a vague memory that something similar happened with Pennine, Skipton: the cash fares were ridiculously high (£11 springs to mind) because they were being paid peanuts for the majority of service users - and twice as much in one direction as the other!

I still lost all colour from my face when told the fare between Skipton and Settle a few years ago on Kirby Lonsdale - that was about £8 for 40 hair-raising minutes each way - and notably involves North Yorkshire, whose derisory rates of ENCTS reimbursement are well-known.

It needs a test court case between an operator and a local authority. Realistically, it would have to be an operator with services in many areas with some financial padding which wouldn't go under if they lost the case. The nearest situation to this I'm aware of is when Stagecoach in South Wales threatened to take the Welsh government to court, but the matter got resolved before ever coming to court, with the implication that a compromise was reached. This wouldn't, in any case, have involved the ENCTS with its separate legal enactment and wording.

 

[MotCO]

If services are not viable, then other solutions need to be found. I don't know the geography of Sussex that well, but if the 28 and 228 serve similar roads, but the 228 goes further into the estates, why is there not a volunteer driver type service available for the estates to link up with the main 28? I know that competition is encouraged, but surely operators should work together for the common good.

 

[swt class 450]

The 28/29 are operated by Go Ahead (Brighton & Hove) and operate between Brighton - Lewes - Uckfield - Crowborough - Eridge - Tunbridge Wells at a frequency of every 10 mins (Brighton to Lewes) and every 15 mins (Lewes to Uckfield) and every 30 mins (Uckfield to Tunbridge Wells). So the Crowborough section is served every 30 minutes in each direction.

Whilst the 28/29 are very frequent (and run fairly late at night) they only serve Crowborough Town Centre and a very small part of the residential areas. So to get from all of the major residential areas and the Railway Station and the large Tesco you have to walk (which can take up to 30 minutes depending where you live) to the main road in the Town Centre where the 28/29 stop.

The 228/229 are operated by Compass Bus and operate between Crowborough - Eridge - Tunbridge Wells but unlike the 28/29 these routes go deep in to all of the residential areas and cover pretty much all of Crowborough. A few years ago when operated by Arriva these were also every 30 minutes in each direction (just like the 28/29) but have been gradually reduced by Seaford & District and then by Compass Bus who are now even further reducing them. The new timetable basically has just six journeys a day in each direction. So basically one bus every two or three hours. The new timetable for the 228/229 will have a PVR of 1 (and also designed to include breaks so it can use one driver all day) compared to a PVR of 4 just a few years ago.

The 228/229 is the same as the 28/29 between Tunbridge Wells - Eridge - Crowborough but the 228/229 then goes in to all the residential parts while the 28/29 just serves the main road and the Town Centre.

So the 228/229 service is alright for going in to Crowborough Town Centre or for going shopping in Tunbridge Wells for a few hours if you plan it well but it is nowhere near as convenient as before. You can't just pop out and take a bus with such a low frequency. It is also useless for commuters as it no longer runs late enough.

Wealdlink Community Transport do operate their own Crowborough Town Bus routes (224/225/226/227) with volunteer drivers but they are very limited with just a few journeys a day and only on certain days of the week. So they are useful for going in to Crowborough Town Centre to do some shopping but not very useful for commuters or for connecting to buses going in to larger towns like Tunbridge Wells.

Personally i think the answer is for Go Ahead (Brighton & Hove) to divert some of their 28/29 journeys via the 228/229 route via Crowborough Railway Station and Jarvis Brook. I reckon if they provided a frequent service then it would get well used. It would only add around five to ten minutes extra to the 28/29 journeys and would also provide residents of these areas with direct service to Brighton and Lewes and Uckfield as well as to Crowborough and Tunbridge Wells. I think this would really be the best solution.

 

[Robertj21a]

The 28/29 are operated by Go Ahead (Brighton & Hove) and operate between Brighton - Lewes - Uckfield - Crowborough - Eridge - Tunbridge Wells at a frequency of every 10 mins (Brighton to Lewes) and every 15 mins (Lewes to Uckfield) and every 30 mins (Uckfield to Tunbridge Wells). So the Crowborough section is served every 30 minutes in each direction.

Whilst the 28/29 are very frequent (and run fairly late at night) they only serve Crowborough Town Centre and a very small part of the residential areas. So to get from all of the major residential areas and the Railway Station and the large Tesco you have to walk (which can take up to 30 minutes depending where you live) to the main road in the Town Centre where the 28/29 stop.

The 228/229 are operated by Compass Bus and operate between Crowborough - Eridge - Tunbridge Wells but unlike the 28/29 these routes go deep in to all of the residential areas and cover pretty much all of Crowborough. A few years ago when operated by Arriva these were also every 30 minutes in each direction (just like the 28/29) but have been gradually reduced by Seaford & District and then by Compass Bus who are now even further reducing them. The new timetable basically has just six journeys a day in each direction. So basically one bus every two or three hours. The new timetable for the 228/229 will have a PVR of 1 (and also designed to include breaks so it can use one driver all day) compared to a PVR of 4 just a few years ago.

The 228/229 is the same as the 28/29 between Tunbridge Wells - Eridge - Crowborough but the 228/229 then goes in to all the residential parts while the 28/29 just serves the main road and the Town Centre.

So the 228/229 service is alright for going in to Crowborough Town Centre or for going shopping in Tunbridge Wells for a few hours if you plan it well but it is nowhere near as convenient as before. You can't just pop out and take a bus with such a low frequency. It is also useless for commuters as it no longer runs late enough.

Wealdlink Community Transport do operate their own Crowborough Town Bus routes (224/225/226/227) with volunteer drivers but they are very limited with just a few journeys a day and only on certain days of the week. So they are useful for going in to Crowborough Town Centre to do some shopping but not very useful for commuters or for connecting to buses going in to larger towns like Tunbridge Wells.

Personally i think the answer is for Go Ahead (Brighton & Hove) to divert some of their 28/29 journeys via the 228/229 route via Crowborough Railway Station and Jarvis Brook. I reckon if they provided a frequent service then it would get well used. It would only add around five to ten minutes extra to the 28/29 journeys and would also provide residents of these areas with direct service to Brighton and Lewes and Uckfield as well as to Crowborough and Tunbridge Wells. I think this would really be the best solution.

Unfortunately, the best solution for Crowborough residents may well not be the best solution for Brighton & Hove Buses, or for the bulk of the passengers who are travelling to/from Tunbridge Wells, Brighton, Lewes, Uckfield etc. It is also treated as a quality ('Regency') route to attract tourists etc. Nipping around some back streets to get to Jarvis Brook does not seem to fit very well with what Brighton & Hove need to achieve !

 

[Hophead]

Diverting the 29 and adding "5 to 10 minutes" would add at least one more bus to the schedule, and that cost would have to be recouped.

When we last discussed the Crowborough routes, I thought it unlikely that the A26 could sustain much more than 2 buses per hour. What I didn't say then was that my solution would be to keep the 228/229 as largely local and offer through fares to Tunbridge Wells on the Brighton and Hove services.

Of course, in the harsh deregulated, commercial world of bus operation in Britain, that's problematic. There are examples of this sort of practice, and I'm expecting instances from the Netherlands and Switzerland at least. However, I'll not go so far and I'll mention, errr, East Sussex. In Lewes, Newhaven and Seaford, Compass do accept certain variants of the Brighton and Hove Network Saver. The difference there is that the services are operated under contract to ESCC, whereas the 228/229 are fully commercial.

Something similar here would, I'm sure, be helpful to existing and prospective passengers, but sadly, I can't see it happening.

 

[Typhoon]

When we last discussed the Crowborough routes, I thought it unlikely that the A26 could sustain much more than 2 buses per hour.

Totally agree. When I've used the route from T. Wells, journeys starting before 08:15 loadings very good until Crowborough when pupils disgorge; between 08:15 and 08:45 loadings OK (many passengers look like students - sixth form?); following journey low numbers until ENCTS kicks in at Crowborough. I once travelled on a 229 from T. Wells and Crowborough when run by Arriva - just me and the driver. Return between midday and mid afternoon - loadings nothing to write home about.

Diverting the 29 and adding "5 to 10 minutes" would add at least one more bus to the schedule, and that cost would have to be recouped.

I think the previous poster was being optimistic here. On 228 journey time Crowborough to Whitehill via Jarvis Brook 23 minutes, direct on 29 six minutes. Even keeping to the main roads and avoiding deviations I think you would be lucky to add much less than 12-15 minutes to the journey time. If the plan was to divert one bus an hour that way, it would lead to uneven frequencies, presumably from Crowborough north; if the plan is that all journeys then we are probably looking at two more buses at least as well as depriving passengers on the direct route a service they currently patronise. From my experience schedules over this section are currently tight to say the least.​

What I didn't say then was that my solution would be to keep the 228/229 as largely local and offer through fares to Tunbridge Wells on the Brighton and Hove services.

... sadly, I can't see it happening.

Sorry, neither can I. Good idea though. I wonder whether co-operation might be easier if a non-profit organisation like Wealdlink operated the 228/9? (Lots of assumptions here, I'm afraid).

 

[Statto]

It's the same almost everywhere, because of austerity council funding has been cut ten fold the last few years, so council funded bus services are going to be the first to go, can't see it changing anytime soon.

 

[swt class 450]

It looks like East Sussex County Council are looking to save £5,000,000 (five million) by making more cuts to all their services:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-46867017

I imagine that this will be more bad news for bus services. It will probably mean that their very few remaining bus contracts and funded services will be withdrawn.

 

[Wirewiper]

I wonder whether co-operation might be easier if a non-profit organisation like Wealdlink operated the 228/9?

This may not be a solution. In Torbay, Our Bus Torbay (a subsidiary of Torbay Community and Development Trust, a not-for-profit organisation) had to suspend its operations in December as it was losing £1,000 a week - losses of that level could not be sustained without compromising the Trust's other activities and possibly forcing the organisation to close entirely. Much of the loss was blamed on inadequate reimbursement for ENCTS passes, which represented 90% of the journeys on the company's two routes. Part of one route has been taken on by another operator, but on much-reduced hours of operation.

Torbay Council (a Unitary Authority) ceased all funding for bus services a few years ago.

 

[Man of Kent]

It looks like East Sussex County Council are looking to save £5,000,000 (five million) by making more cuts to all their services:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-46867017

I imagine that this will be more bad news for bus services. It will probably mean that their very few remaining bus contracts and funded services will be withdrawn.

Detailed study of the council papers shows that the "transport hub" budget is expected to save £100,000 against its current spend of £1.525m, with effect from 2020/21. It's not a massive amount compared to many authorities, and suggests that there is unlikely to be a mass slaughter of East Sussex's subsidised routes in the near future.