East Midlands Trains to close buffet cars

[Welshman]

Been in Nottingham this week - EMT are putting their First Class advertising to the max! Weekend upgrades etc, catering offers, and even produced a leaflet comparing how much a lawyer could earn extra by taking first Class by trai and not driving etc

Not half as much as that same lawyer could earn if the dispute re the right of way over the Sheffield footbridge ever went to court!

 

[gordonthemoron]

I have just noticed something odd on the EMT website. They are advertising Advane tickets from a variety of stations, Leicester & points north, to London. Most of the ticket prices look OK, except:

Nottingham-London from £18
and, East Midlands Parkway-London from £20

 

[mickey]

I'm simply objecting to cheap foreign labour being used instead of people in half decent jobs

I have no problem with anyone who has the legal right to work in the UK doing so, and I wish people would stop demonising them for it. However, this discussion is best left for another place.

Back to the OT, I have to say I'm one for buffet cars. Trolleys are only for the lazy, and I really like the flexibility you get from being able to choose when to go to a buffet car, not to mention the exercise you get walking to one halfway through a journey. The best thing Virgin ever did is bring in proper coffee (made from beans! and hot water!), and as a result when I travel VT I enjoy going to get a nice coffee. Arriva made a huge backward step when they got rid of it, and I've never bought anything from them since then. More importantly, surely sales go down on busy trains - since when the trolley can't get through at least those near the shop can still buy stuff?

(I should add that I can't stand crap coffee, and would much rather go without than have to put up with it. Ever. Take note XC, TPE, and so on.)

 

[Invincibles]

I use EMT quite a lot between Sheffield and Leicester and the old free coffee offer was brilliant because inevitably when you went to buy the coffee it was easy to be attracted by cakes, crisps or chocolate. To my mind it would be much better to get some cheaply made cakes and "suggest" people getting a coffee might like some.

I must be honest though and say that I now buy a coffee on Sheffield station before getting onto the train as the prices are similar and the coffee shops make from the bean. I do buy coffee on virgin trains rather than from the station because theres is so good in comparison. A change to a trolley will not change things for me so maybe I am now reflective of what people do, I do not know.

The idea that there is catering available all day is an important one though, companies who switch to trolleys than remove the trolleys after 2000 do annoy me, especially as later at night I am more inclined to be hungry/thirsty and make impulse buys...

 

[lm321412]

Quite annoyed to see that yet another TOC are closing their buffet cars on their trains. I travel alot with XC and feel that the catering is rubbish due to absolutely nothing to choose from, only comes through once or twice and that you feel rushed to buy your stuff before it goes and if you are taking your time you are holding up the trolley.

For instance, Tonight on XC all the sandwiches they had was Breakfast Sandwiches which at 1700, isn't exactly what I require

Also, I am only ever likely to want to use EMTs 1st class is if they ever bother to actually offer more for your money rarther than the current tripe!

 

[158856]

30% cut in Premium Passengers. Most businesses would cut Prices but EMT just cut staff.
Many of the Premium Passengers who have left will not return to First Class because of changes in Company Policies concerning First Class Travel. EMT need to address this by looking at its prices. Nothing will happen.

Just to put the record straight, EMT cut its First Class prices in January 2010. For example the price of an Off Peak First Class return from Nottingham to London was reduced by £27 to £134 and a Super Off Peak First Class return was introduced, saving 36% on the previous price. First Anytime returns were held or reduced in price. First Inclusive prices are being cut further in September 2010.

Baguettes will still be available to standard class passengers.

No EMT employees are being made redundant or will be transferring to Rail Gourmet; they will be retained to provide the enhanced service to First Class passengers.

 

[E&W Lucas]

Just to put the record straight, EMT cut its First Class prices in January 2010. For example the price of an Off Peak First Class return from Nottingham to London was reduced by £27 to £134 and a Super Off Peak First Class return was introduced, saving 36% on the previous price. First Anytime returns were held or reduced in price. First Inclusive prices are being cut further in September 2010.

Baguettes will still be available to standard class passengers.

No EMT employees are being made redundant or will be transferring to Rail Gourmet; they will be retained to provide the enhanced service to First Class passengers.

That reads like a company press release!!!!

All I'm bothered about is the last paragraph - I very much hope that's the truth!

 

[NightatLaira]

Sounds like another step backwards, will hardly attract customers to the railway if all they can get on board is a cold sandwich and crap coffee. If I lived in Sheffield I'd be tempted to get the train to Donny and get an East Coast from there with a decent selection of food.

One of my friends in Sheffield who regularly goes to Edinburgh refuses point-blank to use XC because of the lack of buffet. He either flies or goes to Donny to get an East Coast service... :roll: EMT could learn a lot from this case
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This does sound very much like some sort of a contractual ploy, particularly as the buffet counter usually only has one person serving as opposed to a fair few in first class on week days. There seems to be no practical reason why one of these couldn't take a buffet trolly down through standard now and again.

I too will miss the hot baguettes. Whilst there isn't such a thing as an Inter-City brand anymore, I would still have thought it better for the railway as a whole if all the companies operating Inter-City type services offered a minimum threshold of service. That way passengers would know that wherever they travelled long distance, they could at least expect, for example, provision for first class and a buffet car.

If I were transport minister - that would be one of the first things I'd do. Any 'intercity style service' should have as a matter of course a hot buffet, with a minimum of 5 cooked options, real from-the-bean coffee, and a few other things!

Just one of the many reasons why I will never become transport minister!

 

[Invincibles]

I have just completed a Manchester to Cheltenham run with XC and their lack of catering, would not be too bad if there had been time to get something at Birmingham but because the train from Piccadilly terminated on 12 it took so long to get across the throat that I only had a couple of minutes to get across to the Bristol that was already waiting on 11. (An odd move surely to send anything to/from wolverhampton to platform 12)

I often get good value first class tickets on EMT, and while the offering is not as good as Virgins it did strike me as ok given the distance covered by most passengers. Having the option to make more substantial purchases was better than nothing, though I did not ever partake.

 

[AlexS]

I've only ever seen, on quite a lot of journeys, an XC trolley 'pass through the train' once.

This was Wednesday on the 15:03 New Street to Dundee, which was a double unit and therefore not hugely crowded (though it seemed to well and truly become 'busy' at Leeds).

On a Sunday XC trolleys shouldn't even bother as the trains are rammed throughout the day.

EMT have similar issues on Sunday trains that they run the 7 car 222s on.

Another retrograde step

 

[MidnightFlyer]

That reads like a company press release!!!!

All I'm bothered about is the last paragraph - I very much hope that's the truth!

EMT staff must like these Forums, there was a Thread in the Fares things I think a while ago bigging upp their advance thing

 

[Greenback]

Remove the buffets and put more seats in, it makes commercial sense. In addition sales will increase in standard as people are more likely to buy from an at seat service than walk half the length of the train to the buffet, security is enhanced because there is one less reason for anybody to leave unattended luggage, and first class gets a boost by having more staff and thus a more personal service. Nobody appears to be losing their job so it seems to me like a pretty good idea.

East Coast will eventually go the same way, just as GW, VT, XC and now EMT have done, it seems hard to imagine that at one time there was even a buffet car on London to Portsmouth, Brighton, Southend services.:roll:

Not really true. Sales do not increase when trolleys are introduced to replace proper buffet counters. The lack of choice, running out of stock, and uncertainty over when, or if, a trolley will appear merely encourages people not to rely on on train catering. Many people enjoy a walk down to the buffet car on a long journey, it can be a nice steretch of the legs.

Very true. The economic situation over the last two years or so has encouraged many companies to amend their travel policies to ban all First Class travel (unless authorised by someone at the top).

Exactly. All TOC's need to reassess their pricing policies. They have taken advantage of the first class market for too long. It;s not now so easy to get businesses to pay for first class travel. BR decided in 1984 that first class was only used by those on expenses. that decision now looks out of date, and more leisure travellers need to be attracted.

My main problem with a trolley service is they often run out of hot water, I could go on but we'll be here for hours.

They run out of hot water and pretty much everything else, there's not a lot of space on those things!

I have to say I'm one for buffet cars. Trolleys are only for the lazy, and I really like the flexibility you get from being able to choose when to go to a buffet car, not to mention the exercise you get walking to one halfway through a journey. The best thing Virgin ever did is bring in proper coffee (made from beans! and hot water!), and as a result when I travel VT I enjoy going to get a nice coffee. Arriva made a huge backward step when they got rid of it, and I've never bought anything from them since then. More importantly, surely sales go down on busy trains - since when the trolley can't get through at least those near the shop can still buy stuff?

Quite right, couldn't put it better myself!

This idea looks as though it has come directly from the head bean counter at EMT. It will lead to less revenue, trolleys will be cut, First Class ticket sales will not increase and no one will be any better off at all.

 

[caliwag]

Unless I'm on EC, I always take a picnic and a bottle of wine! Doesn't take that much planning. Recently travelled XC 125 York to NA in First...trolley came through several times and the staff were very efficient and friendly.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Unless I'm on EC, I always take a picnic and a bottle of wine! Doesn't take that much planning. Recently travelled XC 125 York to NA in First...trolley came through several times and the staff were very efficient and friendly.

What's NA? Must just be something about HSTs that make first class good!

 

[button_boxer]

What's NA?

I'd guess Newton Abbott.

 

[142094]

One of my friends in Sheffield who regularly goes to Edinburgh refuses point-blank to use XC because of the lack of buffet. He either flies or goes to Donny to get an East Coast service... :roll: EMT could learn a lot from this case

I try to avoid XC at all costs, unless I'm sure I'm on the HSTs. Voyagers are pretty awful trains, and a lack of decent food/drink makes things even more worse.

 

[devon_metro]

As far as I am aware both FGW and VT continue to have buffet cars

Correct, FGW found that services with trolleys were unpopular - and unsafe.

Hence all HSTs have some sort of buffet counter capable of serving hot food and drinks.

 

[met331]

Ok lets debunk some myths and histerics being thrown about. Yes the buffet car is being closed and replaced by a trolley. However the trolley will be replenished with endless hot water from either the HST Kitchen or the Meridien Kitchen. The stock for the trolley will also be kept there as well. Extra stock can be carried and stored quite safetly.

With the maximum journey time of 2hr 30 EMT feel that they can sell more refreshments off a trolley than the counter as this part of the business has suffered with over 40% less revenue since the start of the current franchise.

The staff affected will be moved to first class and it will mean less agency staff being recruited meaning that EMT jobs will be more secure for the future.

I will miss the counter service but can also see why the desicion was taken.

The Norwich - Liverpool will continue to be operated by railgourmet who provide a damn better service than connect or Express catering ever could.
I speak as an ex-guard who operated those services for over 8 years and the service provided now is more reliable than it ever was.

 

[yorksrob]

I will miss the counter service but can also see why the desicion was taken.

Mmm still not convinced myself. Certainly at peak times when they have a fair number of staff anyway - surely they can spare one for the buffet?

 

[Greenback]

Ok lets debunk some myths and histerics being thrown about. Yes the buffet car is being closed and replaced by a trolley. However the trolley will be replenished with endless hot water from either the HST Kitchen or the Meridien Kitchen. The stock for the trolley will also be kept there as well. Extra stock can be carried and stored quite safetly.

With the maximum journey time of 2hr 30 EMT feel that they can sell more refreshments off a trolley than the counter as this part of the business has suffered with over 40% less revenue since the start of the current franchise.

The staff affected will be moved to first class and it will mean less agency staff being recruited meaning that EMT jobs will be more secure for the future.

I will miss the counter service but can also see why the desicion was taken.

The Norwich - Liverpool will continue to be operated by railgourmet who provide a damn better service than connect or Express catering ever could.
I speak as an ex-guard who operated those services for over 8 years and the service provided now is more reliable than it ever was.

I have no doubt that EMT are mistaken. They will not sell more from the trolley, they will actually sell less. As has been said, trolleys are unpopular on Inter City type routes where people are used to, and feel they ought to, have a proper buffet service. Has EMT even bothered to do any research into this? Customers will vote with their wallets and buy even more from supermarkets than they did previously.

Also, if they are not installing extra seats, the decision is even more questionable. Still, if it means they can restore the buffet fairly easily when they finally realise what a monumental error they have made, all the better.

 

[E&W Lucas]

as this part of the business has suffered with over 40% less revenue since the start of the current franchise.

Perhaps they need to be looking at their catering offer & pricing in that case?

 

[Greenback]

Quite. The FGW buffet cars in Cornwall recently were pretty busy. One chap couldn't close after several announcements because there was still a queue, and people were still ariving to buy stuff! So there's clearly a demand for for more than a trolley on longer distance services.

I rarely purchase anything from ATW trolleys, even on long journeys to Manchester, as I prefer to buy drinks and snacks in advance at cheaper prices. I don;t want to rely on a trolley that may not appear, almost certainly will not appear when Iw ant it, and if I go and look for it will find the staff member sitting reading a book as they are 'on a break'. You cna also pretty much guarantee that on a late afternoon service there won't be any of the eprishables like sandwiches left, as no company over orders just to be left with out of date food.

I still can't wait to see the hot baguettes off the EMT trolley...

 

[theblackwatch]

With the maximum journey time of 2hr 30 EMT feel that they can sell more refreshments off a trolley than the counter as this part of the business has suffered with over 40% less revenue since the start of the current franchise.

Or perhaps this is related to people not visiting the buffet now because EMT stopped offering free tea and coffee to standard class passengers? I'm sure many people went down to the buffet to collect a free drink, and at the same time would buy something to go with it, like a flapjack, pack or crisps, burger etc.

 

[Greenback]

I agree. Impulse buys make up a lot of my own revenue. If I can get people in to my establishment, they will usually spot something they want, but hadn't planned on buying. EMT seems to have approached everything from the point of view of an accountant, a common failing in mdoern business.

 

[Lampshade]

I agree with theblackwatch, if the buffet service was profitable under MML and revenue has fallen, it's obviously a decision EMT has made that's caused it. Free tea and coffee was a killer strategy, more people going to the buffet, more people likely to buy stuff, so while they lose out on tea and coffee, they sell a lot more of everything else.

 

[jon0844]

To be honest, I probably prefer a trolley - but the problem is usually lack of stock. If they can restock easily, I am not really against the idea.

What would be good was some sort of menu on the train so you can see what you might want to buy before the trolley arrives. Otherwise you're going to be asking 'what do you have' and wasting time, or just going for something 'safe'.

For longer distances, you want to stretch your legs and possibly eat in the buffet area -but I too would be concerned for my personal possessions or just coming back to find someone has taken my seat. I'd be particularly worried about being in the buffet when the train stops and that gives someone a chance to run off with my stuff, or someone to come on and nab the seat.

 

[Greenback]

Those are valid points. When travelling alone, I make sure I only visit the buffet in between stops, and I ask a couple of people around me if they can keep an eye on my things, just as I do when I'm in the library and nip outside for a 'breath of air'!

 

[met331]

i would agree with the complimentry tea and coffee it got people to the counter and led to sales. However upper level managers decided that cuts must be made.

 

[Greenback]

Which then leads to even fewer sales, lower revenue and a continuing circle of decay. It's something that was seen under BR over and over again.

When the trolleys don't increase revenue and sales continue to fall, they will be the next to go. The leack of any refreshments at all will be a idsincentive to take the train for some people and so revenue will fall again.

Cateiring cannot be looked at in isolation, but needs to be seen as an integral part of the product offering for lng distance trains, and not just in First Class either.

 

[142094]

i would agree with the complimentry tea and coffee it got people to the counter and led to sales. However upper level managers decided that cuts must be made.

An easy way to make a bit more money from this would be to have a promotion where you get a free hot drink when you buy something else, such as a sandwich or biscuit.