East Midlands Trains doubled up 158s

[CallySleeperKid]

Does anyone know which of the Nottingham to Liverpool lime Street 158s are doubled up to 4 coaches in length?

I am travelling Nottingham to liverpool on Monday 17th May on the 09.45. I have seen some doubled up and others not, so wondered if there was some that are doubled up and some not, or if it just depends on the availablilty of a second unit?

 

[First class]

Capacity really is varied on this line at the moment.

For the Grand National race meeting, a 7 car 222 visited Liverpool a few times.

Also, due to the lack of 158s, the ex Hull Trains (4-car) class 222s have also been to Liverpool vice a 158 in the last few weeks. I think EMT are a bit short due to various operating incidents/refurbs happening with them at the moment.

I would say that the 0945 from Nottingham (1R66) is most likely to be a 2-car as it is off-peak in both directions, arriving at Liverpool 1231. The return working is the 1252 (1L11) which is pretty much "off-peak" throughout. By off peak, I mean out of busy commuter hours, (0630-0930, 1600-1800).

4-car (usually) workings:

1L05 0643 Liverpool-Norwich
1L06 0743 Liverpool-Norwich
1R52 0640 Nottingham-Liverpool
1R78 0957 Norwich-Liverpool
1R82 1057 Norwich-Liverpool
1L14 1552 Liverpool-Norwich
1L15 1652 Liverpool-Nottingham
1L20 2137 Liverpool-Nottingham (couples up at Liverpool, usually 1 x 158 and 1 x 153/156)




It is also not uncommon for a class 158 to terminate at Nottingham, with a class 153 or 156 taking some passengers the rest of the way to Norwich.

 

[bse35]

Did the 222's get to Norwich?

 

[ukrob]

Did the 222's get to Norwich?

Highly unlikely.

On the 15th of last month 222101 did a Liverpool - Norwich service as far as Nottingham where a 158 took over.

 

[transportphoto]

I personally have never seen any other EM units other than a 158 in [stn]NRW[/stn].

However this does not mean there have not been others - should guess that gen groups would make a big thing over a 222 in Norwich! (meaning there would be a picture somewhere!)

 

[MCR247]

A 222 is cleared from Liverpool - Ely

 

[Big Chris]

I've personally seen a EMT 156 in Norwich a while ago and I've seen a picture of a 222 at Ely which was coming from Norwich; ithe pic is hidden on the Railway Herald site somewhere can't find it atm

 

[TheBigD]

One 222 has been to Norwich on a test run.

They are very unlikely to go to Norwich on a service train as the speed differentials east of Ely mean it would lose quite a lot of time. It would be limited to 40mph from Ely to Lakenheath (I think). This would also cause delay the following Cambridge-Norwich Train. There would be similar problems on the return.

Far better to send them to Liverpool if necessary and use the 158 arriving from in Nottingham from Norwich to return back to Norwich.

Hope this helps!

 

[ChrisTheRef]

222's ran to Liverpool in April 2009 during the Grand National

 

[transportphoto]

One 222 has been to Norwich on a test run.

They are very unlikely to go to Norwich on a service train as the speed differentials east of Ely mean it would lose quite a lot of time. It would be limited to 40mph from Ely to Lakenheath (I think). This would also cause delay the following Cambridge-Norwich Train. There would be similar problems on the return.

Far better to send them to Liverpool if necessary and use the 158 arriving from in Nottingham from Norwich to return back to Norwich.

Hope this helps!

A 222 is cleared from Liverpool - Ely

I've personally seen a EMT 156 in Norwich a while ago and I've seen a picture of a 222 at Ely which was coming from Norwich; ithe pic is hidden on the Railway Herald site somewhere can't find it atm

Interesting that 222 can get to Ely - why the speed restrictions between there and Norwich? Why can't they go at maximum line speed?
Is it to do with the breaking distance - if they are at line speed they won't be able to stop at the stations intime?

 

[jopsuk]

222s aren't able to use "Sprinter" differential speeds- whilst 170s and 158s can. it'l be due to factors such as weight, mainly.

 

[WillPS]

Interesting that 222 can get to Ely - why the speed restrictions between there and Norwich? Why can't they go at maximum line speed?
Is it to do with the breaking distance - if they are at line speed they won't be able to stop at the stations intime?

No, it's to with the quality of the land beneath the trackbed (the moist land which makes Norfolk great for agriculture); the track around there literally sinks and the weight/speed differentials are in place to limit this effect. There's evidence of this in nearby unlevel pylons and telegraph poles.

 

[dk1]

Queen Adelaide (near Ely North Jn) to Lakenheath is 75sp but 45 for all other traffic. The xx.16 EMT departure Ely to Norwich would be caught up & delay the following xx.27 NXEA service due to long signal sections between Brandon-Thetford-Harling Road.

 

[Bellwater]

Only one i can think off the top of my head is the 0640 Nottm-Liverpool.

 

[Max]

1257 Norwich-Liverpool tends to be 4 cars (although I'm not sure if it's like this throughout or just from Nottingham!).

 

[dk1]

1257 Norwich-Liverpool tends to be 4 cars (although I'm not sure if it's like this throughout or just from Nottingham!).

Just from Nottingham.

 

[Aictos]

Just seen the most rare of workings just leave Peterborough, a 4 car 158 formation formed by 2 car 158s coupled together.

Very very rare as most EMT workings between Peterborough and Norwich are only 2 car 158s.

 

[Bellwater]

From the new timetable, i think there's going to be 2 diagrams starting from Norwich using 4 car 158s.

 

[Aictos]

Good they need it, some of these trains suffer from much overcrowding - I remember when Central Trains used to operate both 170s and 158s between Norwich/Stansted and Liverpool/Birmingham and having a 3 car 170 turn up on a Norwich bound working.

Oh there's were the good old days,