East Midlands Railway short formed services

[janetdownroad]

Looks like some ex-greater anglia 156s have been painted into northern livery, are these expected to leave soon? Can't imagine it will help the short forming issue even if it's not for awhile.

 

[liamf656]

Looks like some ex-greater anglia 156s have been painted into northern livery, are these expected to leave soon? Can't imagine it will help the short forming issue even if it's not for awhile.

Only one has been done so far, but all of the former Greater Anglia 156s will be done in due course. They will stay with EMR until more 170s arrive from the West Midlands (which in turn need to wait for 196s to enter service)

 

[janetdownroad]

Only one has been done so far, but all of the former Greater Anglia 156s will be done in due course. They will stay with EMR until more 170s arrive from the West Midlands (which in turn need to wait for 196s to enter service)

Ah it's good that they won't be going until there's enough incoming stock to replace them

 

[Jozhua]

It's funny because the government wants the railways to "pay their way", yet despite always being full and standing, EMR still never seems to meet the requirements for even basic rolling stock upgrades.
Gov doesn't want to take the political hit of raising fares even more, yet doesn't want to bother stumping up the cash to invest. So we're left with a service which works for no-one.

Maybe I am cynical and this will simply be "temporary" while disruption from Covid continues and new trains are under construction/awaiting transfer.

The treasury controlled DfT messed up in not really tackling the challenges of the franchise. EMR really struggles in that it has limited alternative service in times of disruption and some of the shortest trains of any franchise. This combined with poor reliability of the fleet means that there is a high chance of short forms.

New trains have really helped Northern and TPE. I do worry though that the 810 order is not enough. What I would hope is that the 222's are kept in a similar fashion to the re-introduction of HSTs to help with capacity.

The 222's are a reliable and solid enough fleet to continue intercity operations until the eventual arrival of HS2's eastern leg and the associated electrification. This is of course assuming treasury don't decide to run bi-modes on HS2...

It's sad because I hear so many stories of friends and family being put off rail travel by the awful overcrowding. Most countries would love to have the levels of demand, return on investment and high farebox revenue we have in the UK. In turn, they would happily release extra funds for the continued growth and prosperity of the network, which of course supports a strong UK economy and increased quality of life.

 

[WesternLancer]

Reposted that post in more suitable place

Revised EMR Regional Timetables - From 19th June

Thankyou for reporting back. It remains infuriating that things that are totally in thier power like decent comms are so poor. They recently put out a post on social media with a half apology linking to what was described as a new statement that was the same as the one in June. Why post to say...

www.railforums.co.uk

Mods please feel free to delete this post.

 

[Andy Pacer]

I see in another thread that two 156's are off to Northern on Tuesday which surely will exacerbate the unit shortages.

 

[43055]

I see in another thread that two 156's are off to Northern on Tuesday which surely will exacerbate the unit shortages.

I don't think unit shortages are that much of a problem any more in the current timetable, obviously this could change in December. Over the last few weeks there are at least 2 or 3 156's, 2 153's and a 158 or 170 lined up alongside the shed at Etches Park most days. Things do seem to be improving with 170's now running on the Newark - Crewe services in the last week which have been just 156/158's since May.

 

[Skymonster]

Utter madness that two 156s are going during a period when EMR is seemingly short of units - the 153s finish in two weeks time too, meaning another 156 has to be deployed To Cleethorpes. It’s bizarre that EMR can’t have the 170s it’s due from West Midlands, and yet it has to give up 156s to Northern. Maybe - maybe - the situation has eased with more crews trained on 170s, but EMR is still cutting Skegness (on which those 156s could be used). If there are shortforms on Regional after the two 156s go, it will be clear that EMR management just don’t care about service provision.

 

[liamf656]

I see in another thread that two 156's are off to Northern on Tuesday which surely will exacerbate the unit shortages.

There are currently 4 156s (470, 473, 497, 498) which are seldom used at the moment, these will return to more regular duties soon which will balance out the shortfall

 

[Andy Pacer]

I don't think unit shortages are that much of a problem any more in the current timetable, obviously this could change in December. Over the last few weeks there are at least 2 or 3 156's, 2 153's and a 158 or 170 lined up alongside the shed at Etches Park most days. Things do seem to be improving with 170's now running on the Newark - Crewe services in the last week which have been just 156/158's since May.

Are we to assume that the units outside Etches Park are serviceable - in which case if unit shortages aren't "that much of a problem" then it rather leaves this thread redundant.

 

[liamf656]

Are we to assume that the units outside Etches Park are serviceable - in which case if unit shortages aren't "that much of a problem" then it rather leaves this thread redundant.

Those units outside Etches Park are serviceable, they are the 4 156s that I mentioned in my post above, although you may have missed it as we posted at the same moment

 

[STINT47]

If EMR have four 156s serviceable and sat in sidings it shows that short formed services and overcrowding is something that has been chosen to be done by management.

It's appalling that people are suffering from overcrowding when trains are sat idle at Derby.

 

[liamf656]

If EMR have four 156s serviceable and sat in sidings it shows that short formed services and overcrowding is something that has been chosen to be done by management.

It's appalling that people are suffering from overcrowding when trains are sat idle at Derby.

They wouldn’t have been sat without good reason, I’m sure.

 

[Bald Rick]

If EMR have four 156s serviceable and sat in sidings it shows that short formed services and overcrowding is something that has been chosen to be done by management.

It's appalling that people are suffering from overcrowding when trains are sat idle at Derby.

AIUI There’s 4 x 156s that can’t be used in Autumn because they don’t have WSP fitted. I presume it is the 4 mentioned above. They can be back in service shortly.

 

[dk1]

AIUI There’s 4 x 156s that can’t be used in Autumn because they don’t have WSP fitted. I presume it is the 4 mentioned above. They can be back in service shortly.

That makes perfect sense. Thank you.

 

[QSK19]

Utter madness that two 156s are going during a period when EMR is seemingly short of units - the 153s finish in two weeks time too, meaning another 156 has to be deployed To Cleethorpes. It’s bizarre that EMR can’t have the 170s it’s due from West Midlands, and yet it has to give up 156s to Northern. Maybe - maybe - the situation has eased with more crews trained on 170s, but EMR is still cutting Skegness (on which those 156s could be used). If there are shortforms on Regional after the two 156s go, it will be clear that EMR management just don’t care about service provision.

Unfortunately, WMR can’t release the 170s until their 196s are in service - quite simply, WMR would have nothing to replace them with.

For all of EMR’s faults, I do sympathise with them to a small extent - their Regional rolling stock plans are being (excuse the pun) derailed due to factors out of their control.

 

[WesternLancer]

Unfortunately, WMR can’t release the 170s until their 196s are in service - quite simply, WMR would have nothing to replace them with.

For all of EMR’s faults, I do sympathise with them to a small extent - their Regional rolling stock plans are being (excuse the pun) derailed due to factors out of their control.

But they could have started refurbing the interiors of the trains they are going to keep - which are in a very poor state... and which passengers are having to put up with day in day out.

Noting and sympathizing with your point however.

 

[Bald Rick]

But they could have started refurbing the interiors of the trains they are going to keep - which are in a very poor state... and which passengers are having to put up with day in day out.

They could ... but then there would be fewer units to put out...

 

[dk1]

Damn

They could ... but then there would be fewer units to put out...

Damned if they don’t, damned if they do. Can’t win.

 

[Skymonster]

Unfortunately, WMR can’t release the 170s until their 196s are in service - quite simply, WMR would have nothing to replace them with.

I get that, but in that case EMR should not be releasing 156s to Northern until the 170s arrive either.

 

[Bald Rick]

I get that, but in that case EMR should not be releasing 156s to Northern until the 170s arrive either.

*refers to Northern overcrowding thread*

 

[Mariner16]

158863 should be back out soon surely? Having its C4 at Etches Park post incident from 12 months ago.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Unfortunately, WMR can’t release the 170s until their 196s are in service - quite simply, WMR would have nothing to replace them with.

For all of EMR’s faults, I do sympathise with them to a small extent - their Regional rolling stock plans are being (excuse the pun) derailed due to factors out of their control.

Frankly, someone loses out either way, and considering it’s WMR that ordered the late trains, it’s their issue, not EMR/Northern’s.

 

[Trainfan2019]

I noticed on the EMR app this morning that there's quite a few cancellations/early terminations due to 'short notice change to the timetable'. What exactly does this mean and what are the causes behind it please?

 

[LowLevel]

I noticed on the EMR app this morning that there's quite a few cancellations/early terminations due to 'short notice change to the timetable'. What exactly does this mean and what are the causes behind it please?

Intercity route is incomplete engineering work.

Regional routes is shortage of available drivers.

 

[Skymonster]

Short forms on Nottingham-Liverpool and Mansfield today - it’s difficult to understand how it will be any better tomorrow when two units go off to Northern. And how can Cleethorpes-Barton be cancelled all day due to a ‘short notice change to the timetable’? If it’s a lack of crew, it’s not a timetable change is it? And if there’s a lack of crew for many services (eg Skegness, some Crewe’s, some Lincoln’s) how come they need to short form the Liverpool?

 

[Trainfan2019]

Short forms on Nottingham-Liverpool and Mansfield today - it’s difficult to understand how it will be any better tomorrow when two units go off to Northern. And how can Cleethorpes-Barton be cancelled all day due to a ‘short notice change to the timetable’? If it’s a lack of crew, it’s not a timetable change is it? And if there’s a lack of crew for many services (eg Skegness, some Crewe’s, some Lincoln’s) how come they need to short form the Liverpool?

That's exactly what I thought about the cancellations not really being a timetable change. I've seen it on odd occasions before on the app but never as much as today which is what brought me to ask on here.

 

[edwin_m]

A short notice change to the timetable is basically just saying it's cancelled because it's cancelled, with a hint that as it was a timetable change, delay repay isn't payable.

 

[Killingworth]

Good to be able to see EMR details on Realtime Trains from 20th December. Not good to be able to confirm that half the Liverpool- Norwich services through Sheffield are running with 2 coaches and not 4.

As peak loads may have dropped again after latest WFH guidance this may be OK for now but the fleet is still thinly spread and IL06 isn't due to be restored until January.

 

[robbeech]

Good to be able to see EMR details on Realtime Trains from 20th December. Not good to be able to confirm that half the Liverpool- Norwich services through Sheffield are running with 2 coaches and not 4.

As peak loads may have dropped again after latest WFH guidance this may be OK for now but the fleet is still thinly spread and IL06 isn't due to be restored until January.

On at least 2 occasions we have seen 2 consecutive Liverpool - Nottingham (Norwich) services cancelled and the next one short formed. What I cannot understand when cancellations are announced the day before is why there STILL has to be short forms. I can understand last minute cancellations but when things are known about in advance why the operators just leave the rolling stock sat there instead of strengthening the remaining services is astonishing. I’m specifically talking about areas where trains of the resultant length are permitted to run.

For example if the 1205 and 1305 are cancelled at 2200 the day before due to short staff and the 1405 should run as a 4 car, what is the excuse for running the 1405 as a 2 car, other than saving diesel and other running costs and not giving a damn about the paying passengers?