East Midlands Railway short formed services

[Skymonster]

MOW is local door only with a 185, that won’t be happening with the Barton route anytime soon.

Indeed, all I was saying was that the EMR 153s are still being operated by TPE crews and my understanding is no EMR staff route learning has yet taken place.

 

[Killingworth]

MOW is local door only with a 185, that won’t be happening with the Barton route anytime soon.

It had been happening every day for years!

 

[Fokx]

It had been happening every day for years!

Pre-Covid.

There’s a reason the route is currently using a locked out 153 and it’s not to make the train longer

 

[cactustwirly]

Pre-Covid.

There’s a reason the route is currently using a locked out 153 and it’s not to make the train longer

Which is?

 

[Fokx]

Which is?

To protect train crew from infection as a result of passengers crowding around staff at entrance/exit points. Particularly those members of traincrew who are not fully vaccinated or are unable to do so, as per union agreement.

 

[adrock1976]

MOW is local door only with a 185, that won’t be happening with the Barton route anytime soon.

What exactly is MOW please?

I cannot find a station with that three letter code.

To my knowledge, it has been a long standing forum policy not to use three letter codes, abbreviations, or acronyms without first saying what they mean.

 

[The Chimaera]

What exactly is MOW please?

I cannot find a station with that three letter code.

To my knowledge, it has been a long standing forum policy not to use three letter codes, abbreviations, or acronyms without first saying what they mean.

'Method Of Working' I would imagine, commonly in use everywhere.

 

[cactustwirly]

To protect train crew from infection as a result of passengers crowding around staff at entrance/exit points. Particularly those members of traincrew who are not fully vaccinated or are unable to do so, as per union agreement.

I'm sorry? What is unique to the Barton line that needs a whole carriage locked out of use?

 

[Fokx]

I'm sorry? What is unique to the Barton line that needs a whole carriage locked out of use?

It uses 153 trains with very small vestibule spaces for the conductor to do their role (such as TFW and Conwy)

Platform length and not fitted with C-ASDO beacons (185)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Sep 2021 ==

What exactly is MOW please?

Method of work (How to correctly alight and board passengers in this scenario in the safest possible way for all involved)

 

[cactustwirly]

It uses 153 trains with very small vestibule spaces for the conductor to do their role (such as TFW and Conwy)

Platform length and not fitted with C-ASDO beacons (185)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Sep 2021 ==


Method of work (How to correctly alight and board passengers in this scenario in the safest possible way for all involved)

I'm still struggling to understand. Seems like a complete waste of fuel lugging an extra 153 around for no reason at all.

The rest of the country seems to cope fine without locking out entire coaches

 

[Fokx]

I'm still struggling to understand. Seems like a complete waste of fuel lugging an extra 153 around for no reason at all.

The rest of the country seems to cope fine without locking out entire coaches

The rest of the country doesn’t use 153 units.

Usually the Barton line operates with a single 153. Since Covid the line operates with an extra 153 unit attached for the sole use of the conductor.

The vestibule spaces on a 153 are extremely narrow due to their single doorways and grab rails (more so at the former gangway end whereby the drivers cab encroaches the vestibule space)

To protect staff from potentially infected passengers (and passengers from potentially infected conductors) the MOW is that the conductor of the 153 uses a different door away from passengers when carrying out boarding and dispatch duties due to the small vestibule.

To then prevent all the passengers boarding and alighting from one single door (as other would be the safe zone for traincrew) another 153 unit has been attached and agreed by both the union and TPE as the safest possible MOW for the route. This helps to avoid creating a pinch point for passengers, delaying the frequently stopping service and was deemed unsafe to have passengers trying to fight their way on/off past each other.

As a result all services have been strengthened with a locked out 153 in which the conductor can use as their local door, with enough physical distance between them and boarding/alighting passengers.

 

[LowLevel]

The rest of the country doesn’t use 153 units.

Usually the Barton line operates with a single 153. Since Covid the line operates with an extra 153 unit attached for the sole use of the conductor.

The vestibule spaces on a 153 are extremely narrow due to their single doorways and grab rails (more so at the former gangway end whereby the drivers cab encroaches the vestibule space)

To protect staff from potentially infected passengers (and passengers from potentially infected conductors) the MOW is that the conductor of the 153 uses a different door away from passengers when carrying out boarding and dispatch duties due to the small vestibule.

To then prevent all the passengers boarding and alighting from one single door (as other would be the safe zone for traincrew) another 153 unit has been attached and agreed by both the union and TPE as the safest possible MOW for the route. This helps to avoid creating a pinch point for passengers, delaying the frequently stopping service and was deemed unsafe to have passengers trying to fight their way on/off past each other.

As a result all services have been strengthened with a locked out 153 in which the conductor can use as their local door, with enough physical distance between them and boarding/alighting passengers.

It's an utter nonsense, I've been working 158s with their cramped airless number 1 end vestibule throughout, as well as having to squeeze in to do my doors for the last however many months on full and standing trains.

EMR guards have been training on the line in any case, I believe the plan is to have the EMR conductors in place before the drivers.

 

[adrock1976]

It uses 153 trains with very small vestibule spaces for the conductor to do their role (such as TFW and Conwy)

Platform length and not fitted with C-ASDO beacons (185)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Sep 2021 ==


Method of work (How to correctly alight and board passengers in this scenario in the safest possible way for all involved)

Thanks very much for clearing that up for me.

 

[Mariner16]

There's been a 156 go up empty from Nottingham every morning to Barnetby this week, but I'm not sure what the purpose of this is?

5Z40 0647

 

[Kite159]

How hard would it be to have the rear 153 open for passenger use, but simply rope off the rear area so the guard can still do the doors in safety.

Similar to what TfW did with the 158s where the rear door wasn't available for the public.

Or Scotrail/Northern did with the 156s last year. Carrying around an entire extra train is a waste of diesel

 

[Fokx]

It's an utter nonsense

Do bare in mind it’s the same MOW that was put in place since the early days of Covid-19 when travel was for essential reasons only, the population wasn’t largely vaccinated and mask wearing wasn’t mandatory.

The MOW hasn’t been changed or updated since as TPE staffing was meant to end in May.

 

[warwickshire]

It's an utter nonsense, I've been working 158s with their cramped airless number 1 end vestibule throughout, as well as having to squeeze in to do my doors for the last however many months on full and standing trains.

EMR guards have been training on the line in any case, I believe the plan is to have the EMR conductors in place before the drivers.

Also I have been Barton on humber 153 services recently.
Also October 2020 and prior to lockdown November 2020 as well.
And some transpennie conductors was in their duties very active and going down the train doing revenue and one occasion the whole two cars was available for use and that was October 2020.
Half term.
So. Fully agree utter nonsense also elsewhere on the east Midlands intercity side when travelling hst even last year.
The guards were Al'so active doing revenue down the trains and working hard despite the covid and dangerous situations they faced.

 

[Trainfan2019]

How come the EMR Cleethorpes route only uses 153s? I've tried searching the forum but can't seem to find the answer.

With current unit and driver shortages on the EMR network, the days of a 222 turning up on the Crewe route are long gone. Surely these rare workings could never happen now?

 

[Killingworth]

It's an utter nonsense, I've been working 158s with their cramped airless number 1 end vestibule throughout, as well as having to squeeze in to do my doors for the last however many months on full and standing trains.

EMR guards have been training on the line in any case, I believe the plan is to have the EMR conductors in place before the drivers.

It is total nonsense. The Barton line single 153 trains were lightly loaded before Covid so I doubt they're heavily loaded now.

TPE often used a 3 car 185 unit for at least one journey most days. On South Pennine we'd sometimes get a short formed 3 instead of 6 car train to cover that route. Seems that won't work any more with the TOC change.

It must be one of the strangest services in the country. Most recently a Northern service but manned by TPE and using Northern single 153s and TPE single 185s. Now an EMR service using double 153s and still manned by TPE.

 

[Fokx]

How come the EMR Cleethorpes route only uses 153s? I've tried searching the forum but can't seem to find the answer.

It’s what the TPE cleethorpes crew are trained on as it used to use Northern 153’s.

They don’t sign any other EMR traction.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Opportunity to tag a couple more 153s onto the TfW PRM order and use those? They clearly don't think a micro fleet an issue.

 

[warwickshire]

How come the EMR Cleethorpes route only uses 153s? I've tried searching the forum but can't seem to find the answer.

With current unit and driver shortages on the EMR network, the days of a 222 turning up on the Crewe route are long gone. Surely these rare workings could never happen now?

Because only cleethorpes transpennie Depot have the contract to work the route originally on behalf off northern..
Prior to that arriva trains northern.
But are still doing the route until Lincoln east Midlands railways Depot takes over.
So pointless in cleethorpes tpe learning 156 for very little work and knowledge after the contract ends.
However the 153 on the Barton on humber side off things has always been on the route since around 2000 to 2001. Approximately.
Also main reason for this was the fact off between 1997 to that above mentioned time.
After British rail. Ie early days privatisation. It was the northern spirit Depot at Doncaster that did all or most off the cleethorpes jobs. Especially first and Last trains and a lot off empty coaching stock moves involved.
Including passing up from scunthorpe to Doncaster even to work the Barton on humber to cleethorpes services.
After working in one direction to try and save costs a pacer on the Doncaster to scunthorpe local as well.
However this lead to several problems issues and cancellations. With the Barton on humber branch being constantly used by buses.
So it then lead to a transpennie Express Depot being created at cleethorpes.
To cover 153 being the choice on the branch and to cover other first and Last services into cleethorpes. Ie transpennie Express.
However at the same time extra services from transpennie was also provided from Sheffield via hope valley.
So another Depot transpennie Express was created at Sheffield.
However Doncaster Depot ie northern side lost all the express and transpennie south work from the whole off the network ie cleethorpes to Manchester airport.
However as earlier mentioned above that is the answer for 153 humber and why transpennie Express Depot at cleethorpes work them.
In fact until transpennie Express services are increased from cleethorpes.
Quite a bit off work from cleethorpes Depot is around this contract on this line with 153.

 

[Killingworth]

Opportunity to tag a couple more 153s onto the TfW PRM order and use those? They clearly don't think a micro fleet an issue.

To an ordinary rail user they seem nice modern units. Only flaw was WiFi didn't work on our recent Crewe to Chester journey, after we'd avoided the paired ex-EMR half of the train.

 

[Jozhua]

Happened on Saturday morning. 2 car arrived at Sheffield going to Liverpool, already crowded and couldn't fit all the waiting passengers on. Cue the station team trying to disembark anyone for Manchester and pointing them to the next Manchester service. Still didn't get everyone on board and departed late like two sardine cans!

Yeah if I'm on a train, I ain't getting off lmao - what's to say the next won't be the same? Especially if I didn't know the TPE would be 6 cars.

I did actually get in touch with my MP about this back in June/July, who forwarded my questions onto the DfT. Attached is their response. Doesn't really say much tbh.

Thanks for posting it! Important to put pressure on these people. They are useless, but it's always good to remind them of that fact.

EMR should reintroduce the stored class 153 stock until sufficient class 170s can be sourced. They obviously aren't PRM approved but surely so long as they always operate attached to PRM approved class 156 stock, then 2 or 4 car consists can instead operate as 3 or 5 car to alleviate overcrowding.
PRM utilise the 156, while able bodied sit in the 153. Better than standing or being left on the platform.
Surely a short term lease can be arranged?

I agree - remember it hurts disabled people more to have a seriously overcrowded train.

Why ? The railway being strong armed into withdrawing rolling stock when it's replacements aren't ready, is at the heart of the problem.

Not like they had ten years to prepare. Of course our government thinks it can set deadlines and they will magically meet themselves...

The blame for this can be squarely aimed at the DfT, with their utterly inadequate planning for a requirement that ... checks notes ... the DfT decided to introduce. The 7 Ps come to mind !

The TOCs are just their agents when it comes to rolling stock and it would be utterly pointless to try and make them individually liable.

Yep!

I think we are the only country in Europe that has taken it this far. All other countries only apply the rules to new build trains.

Regarding UK franchises why would ATW or Stagecoach be interested in a deadline that applied a year after their franchise ended? I think the ATW franchise started before the deadline was set so the government would have had to stump up for any costs associated with modifying the units. This fiasco was predicted by people on this forum and plenty of others way back in 2015 and probably before that. How come the government did see it coming? BR era units all have an overhaul every 8-10 years. PRM mods should have been included in all overhauls post 2010.

This would have been sensible also, just say any refurbs must include prm provision

To an ordinary rail user they seem nice modern units. Only flaw was WiFi didn't work on our recent Crewe to Chester journey, after we'd avoided the paired ex-EMR half of the train.

The 153's? Trust me, they do not. That said, better than being left behind.

 

[yorksrob]

Not like they had ten years to prepare. Of course our government thinks it can set deadlines and they will magically meet themselves...

Well, teen years seems like a long time, but trains last forty.

For the 153's, putting in an accessible toilet loses so much space, a pragmatic solution (coupling to a 158) is what's needed.

 

[Jozhua]

Well, teen years seems like a long time, but trains last forty.

For the 153's, putting in an accessible toilet loses so much space, a pragmatic solution (coupling to a 158) is what's needed.

A lot of DMUs can be expected to last reasonably about 30 - although only Pacers were withdrawn in their early 30's.

EMUs definitely can easily do 40, but a lot of them seem to get replaced sooner than that!

I do think rethinking the 153s is a sensible solution - using them as capacity boosters. It would be good if we'd settled on standardised couplings so newer units are compatible with Sprinters outside of 170s.

 

[yorksrob]

A lot of DMUs can be expected to last reasonably about 30 - although only Pacers were withdrawn in their early 30's.

EMUs definitely can easily do 40, but a lot of them seem to get replaced sooner than that!

I do think rethinking the 153s is a sensible solution - using them as capacity boosters. It would be good if we'd settled on standardised couplings so newer units are compatible with Sprinters outside of 170s.

Agree 100% with all of that.

Capacity is the key issue and it should be at the forefront of all decisions.

 

[Jozhua]

Agree 100% with all of that.

Capacity is the key issue and it should be at the forefront of all decisions.

Obviously long term we'll need some infrastructure based capacity solutions, but it does seem like (at least in the East Midlands), a lot of our overcrowding could at the very least be solved by longer trains. Three cars on regional services, 7/8 on intercity and six on Nottingham-Liverpool.

One car trains were always unacceptable - two car is still pushing it on a number of routes as well.

 

[Skymonster]

Highly unusual sight yesterday morning at Sheffield just around 10:00 - two EMR 158s joined together and heading to Manchester and Liverpool (yes, the combo does still exist on the railways, at least occasionally). The double set was full with standing in the vestibules on departure, so goodness knows what chaos would have ensued had it been short formed.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Highly unusual sight yesterday morning at Sheffield just around 10:00 - two EMR 158s joined together and heading to Manchester and Liverpool (yes, the combo does still exist on the railways, at least occasionally). The double set was full with standing in the vestibules on departure, so goodness knows what chaos would have ensued had it been short formed.

The one that leaves Manchester around 13:45 was a 4-car 158 yesterday also!