East Midlands Railway short formed services

[londonmidland]

I hope those on the train who wanted Sheffield were given plenty of notice to get off at Chesterfield!

Yes, they were. However several would’ve had to get on a 2 car 195. Luckily it’s only a short journey from Chesterfield to Sheffield.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Aug 2021 ==

Sad to see what I've experienced for many years as a high quality reliable service (EMR transpennine) deteriorate so comprehensively.

If anything TransPennine have gotten better in the recent years with regular 6 car 185s operating on the route. It’s EMR who have gone really downhill.

 

[Scott1]

There's no signs of anything getting better either. I'm surprised the local MPs are so quiet on this.

 

[ChrisC]

There's no signs of anything getting better either. I'm surprised the local MPs are so quiet on this.

I can see it getting far worse on some routes, especially on Saturdays during the next few months. Yesterday was absolute chaos on the Robin Hood Line with many southbound trains running around 15 minutes late. The reason given for this on the Network Rail app was overcrowding. Before covid there was always some overcrowding south of Mansfield on Saturday afternoons even with 2tph but now there is only an hourly service and all trains yesterday were only 2 carriages. It always gets busier this time of year especially if there are big football matches in Nottingham and when Christmas shopping starts to gather pace. Hopefully, during the next few weeks as passenger numbers to Skegness decrease 3 car trains can run on Saturdays. It seems that it will only remain hourly until at least December.

I also cannot understand why the appalling situation on EMR local services seems to be going on without any comments from the local MPs or any reports in the media.

 

[Killingworth]

There's no signs of anything getting better either. I'm surprised the local MPs are so quiet on this.

Agreed, but they can't magically provide rolling stock from thin air. However the spotlight needs turning on the cascading issue. New rolling stock gets ordered and invariably arrives later than anticipated. Then it has teething problems to delay revenue earning service with knock on ripple effects for the older stock being replaced.

EMR has inherited indecision about MML electrification so their bimode intercity rains are years later than they should be. At least they will be new but in the meantime the HST shuffling and replacement problems have been largely hidden by drops in business demand during Covid.

EMRs poor relation status is seen again when the newly electrified Corby route is launched with unis that are approaching 20 years old. If completely refurbished before entry into srrvice the public might not notice but they currently look what they are, second hand cast offs. Meanwhile Greater Anglia gets to run a very modern brand new fleet.

The EMR regional fleet is a mess, much of it 30 years old. TfW are running smart refurbished 153s, but similar EMR stock is wearing badly. Refurbished 158s soldier on well but there aren't enough of them.

Abellio, Abellio, you can give the Greater Anglia franchise some of the best trains in Britain. It can be done. If only the political leaders could direct you to do the same for East Midlands, and very soon.

 

[dk1]

I hope those on the train who wanted Sheffield were given plenty of notice to get off at Chesterfield!

They usually do. It’s a reasonably common occurrence in both directions.

 

[Andy Pacer]

That 8.32 from Sheffield only recently added a stop at Dore, next Edale. It's the quickest end to end of the day by Northern.

Only 2 coaches, usually a 15x, but a lot more reliable than anything from EMR at present. They've withdrawn altogether on Sundays thanks to RMT action.

Booked a 156, lesser spotted in Sheffield!

 

[Adrian1980uk]

Agreed, but they can't magically provide rolling stock from thin air. However the spotlight needs turning on the cascading issue. New rolling stock gets ordered and invariably arrives later than anticipated. Then it has teething problems to delay revenue earning service with knock on ripple effects for the older stock being replaced.

EMR has inherited indecision about MML electrification so their bimode intercity rains are years later than they should be. At least they will be new but in the meantime the HST shuffling and replacement problems have been largely hidden by drops in business demand during Covid.

EMRs poor relation status is seen again when the newly electrified Corby route is launched with unis that are approaching 20 years old. If completely refurbished before entry into srrvice the public might not notice but they currently look what they are, second hand cast offs. Meanwhile Greater Anglia gets to run a very modern brand new fleet.

The EMR regional fleet is a mess, much of it 30 years old. TfW are running smart refurbished 153s, but similar EMR stock is wearing badly. Refurbished 158s soldier on well but there aren't enough of them.

Abellio, Abellio, you can give the Greater Anglia franchise some of the best trains in Britain. It can be done. If only the political leaders could direct you to do the same for East Midlands, and very soon.

You have to remember though greater anglia 3 years ago was really struggling for rolling stock too, also Covid has helped hide the late intro of the 720s.

Although I take your point about EMR regional, there does not seem to be a clear plan on how to get out of the current situation. I know the cascade of the 170s will help but It appears the 158s will have to soldier on as well.

 

[Killingworth]

You have to remember though greater anglia 3 years ago was really struggling for rolling stock too, also Covid has helped hide the late intro of the 720s.

Although I take your point about EMR regional, there does not seem to be a clear plan on how to get out of the current situation. I know the cascade of the 170s will help but It appears the 158s will have to soldier on as well.

Amd that's why the Greater Anglia cast off 360s are late getting to EMR!

If only they could be allowed more genuinely new trains. Trouble is that when we eventually(?) do get replacement trains they need to be compatible with other units, comply with tender procedures and are built in Britain. Maybe. Having ridden on the GA new stock I'd support ordering something like 755s, but chances of that are probably near zero! It would be good to know if there is a plan.

 

[STINT47]

The 360's and 180's are not new but with a quality refurbishment they could be very nice trains. Sadly there seems to be no sign that they are going to get any work done on them any time soon.

 

[Parallel]

The last time I used an EMR regional service, it was one of the Norwich - Liverpool trains that was formed of just a 158 at Manchester and grossly overcrowded. The delay from the extra time taken for people to board and disembark then delayed the service behind.

I can’t help but feel at least some of the TfW 158s could come in handy when they are no longer needed in Wales.

 

[Bayum]

The 360's and 180's are not new but with a quality refurbishment they could be very nice trains. Sadly there seems to be no sign that they are going to get any work done on them any time soon.

Grand Central have proven that.

 

[Kite159]

I can see it getting far worse on some routes, especially on Saturdays during the next few months. Yesterday was absolute chaos on the Robin Hood Line with many southbound trains running around 15 minutes late. The reason given for this on the Network Rail app was overcrowding. Before covid there was always some overcrowding south of Mansfield on Saturday afternoons even with 2tph but now there is only an hourly service and all trains yesterday were only 2 carriages. It always gets busier this time of year especially if there are big football matches in Nottingham and when Christmas shopping starts to gather pace. Hopefully, during the next few weeks as passenger numbers to Skegness decrease 3 car trains can run on Saturdays. It seems that it will only remain hourly until at least December.

I also cannot understand why the appalling situation on EMR local services seems to be going on without any comments from the local MPs or any reports in the media.

Isn't there an issue with the Robin Hood line with some stations having short platforms which can't take 4 coaches.

Shame EMR didn't keep more of the 153s and do what happens in Wales and run a 153 attached to a 156 or 158 to give extra seats. Otherwise the damage will be done and people will get a bad impression of the trains and drive to Nottingham, maybe using one of the tram P&R sites.

 

[LRV3004]

I’ve just got on the 1740 Liverpool at Sheffield - 156415 on its own and absolutely rammed! The Norwich service was arriving as I boarded and that was a 158 on its own as well……

 

[yorksrob]

So has EMR actually given up units in the last couple of years, or are there just a lot in works ?

 

[STINT47]

I was hoping for some services to be restored at the end of September. It will have been three months of the revised timetable and they would have had chance to get on top of staff training and staff absence due to covid. Sadly I cannot see it happening.

The only possible glimmer of light is that the skegness services will not need strengthrn as we head into Autumn. Perhaps this will help reduce cancellations and short forms due to train faults.

Overall though the situation isn't improving and a December improvement looks increasingly unlikely. We will need to learn to live with old, worn out, unreliable and overcrowded trains for some time yet. Someone in goverment must have it in for the East Midlands.

 

[43055]

So has EMR actually given up units in the last couple of years, or are there just a lot in works ?

The only units that have left are the 153's.

 

[yorksrob]

The only units that have left are the 153's.

Obviously that seems an error in hindsight, but it seems surprising that that alone is causing so many short forms.

 

[Killingworth]

So has EMR actually given up units in the last couple of years, or are there just a lot in works ?

A veey good question. We should have an hourly 2 x 158 service. Currently we haven't an hourly service, we haven't 4 cars, and we often haven't got 158s.

In EMT days we suffered short forms and 156/153 substitutions excused by 158 units out for refurbishment. Things seemed to be getting better. Sadly the writing was probably on the wall when Abellio were the only company prepared to accept the conditions to tender.

Yes, some stock has been released. Rather run down 153s weren't a good experience but did give more capacity.

Previously Northern allocated one 153 to the Cleethorpes - Barton service. EMR appear to be allocating two. Other 153s have gone to TfW.

Here's 153968 with TFW at Crewe on Saturday. It's partner is a very smartly refurbished TfW unit.

 

[yorksrob]

A veey good question. We should have an hourly 2 x 158 service. Currently we haven't an hourly service, we haven't 4 cars, and we often haven't got 158s.

In EMT days we suffered short forms and 156/153 substitutions excused by 158 units out for refurbishment. Things seemed to be getting better. Sadly the writing was probably on the wall when Abellio were the only company prepared to accept the conditions to tender.

Yes, some stock has been released. Rather run down 153s weren't a good experience but did give more capacity.

Previously Northern allocated one 153 to the Cleethorpes - Barton service. EMR appear to be allocating two. Other 153s have gone to TfW.

Here's 153968 with TFW at Crewe on Saturday. It's partner is a very smartly refurbished TfW unit..

I must admit, on the odd occasions I've used the Barton line, one 153 has sufficed.

They still don't seem to have lost enough units to explain the chaos being reported.

 

[Scott1]

I must admit, on the odd occasions I've used the Barton line, one 153 has sufficed.

They still don't seem to have lost enough units to explain the chaos being reported.

Reliability on the ageing 15x fleets seems to have got worse, and Covid has made the job harder maintance wise at all TOCs with restrictions on close working and people going to isolate, delays in training etc. Brexit has an impact on part availability for all maintance operations, though as customs settles more that's improved, though not back to before, even delivery delays are having an effect. None of these issues seem to have caused such a severe issue at other TOCs though.

The new timetable certainly appears to have been lacking, with minor issues spreading to cause numerous knock-on delays and too much ambition for fleet availability. I'd imagine it's pretty bad for front line staff at the moment.

 

[yorksrob]

Reliability on the ageing 15x fleets seems to have got worse, and Covid has made the job harder maintance wise at all TOCs with restrictions on close working and people going to isolate, delays in training etc. Brexit has an impact on part availability for all maintance operations, though as customs settles more that's improved, though not back to before, even delivery delays are having an effect. None of these issues seem to have caused such a severe issue at other TOCs though.

The new timetable certainly appears to have been lacking, with minor issues spreading to cause numerous knock-on delays and too much ambition for fleet availability. I'd imagine it's pretty bad for front line staff at the moment.

Indeed. I suppose most other TOC's with BR fleets have a few modern units thrown in to provide some variation.

 

[ashworth]

The only units that have left are the 153's.

They have lost a few 153s but they have gained some 170s.

 

[dk1]

06:51 Norwich-Liverpool & 12:51 return are the only ones on this route so far today showing as 2v4.

 

[Killingworth]

EMR are supposed to be receiving enough Class 170 and 171 units to resolve all the current difficulties but they're delayed and seems can't all be into service within 12 months. It might take 2 years for some? Thats if they're all received.

We who travel, or want to travel, on EMR trains may be very unhappy about the situation (I am), but we should spare a few thoughts for those who are trying to make the best of an increasingly bad job. They can see a long road ahead before all the refurbished rolling stock can be deployed.

Personally I'll avoid EMR regional services as much as possible. I can't see an answer to the rolling stock issue in the short term, but calling off the RMT action might help to improve public perceptions a little.

 

[Wolfie]

EMR are supposed to be receiving enough Class 170 and 171 units to resolve all the current difficulties but they're delayed and seems can't all be into service within 12 months. It might take 2 years for some? Thats if they're all received.

We who travel, or want to travel, on EMR trains may be very unhappy about the situation (I am), but we should spare a few thoughts for those who are trying to make the best of an increasingly bad job. They can see a long road ahead before all the refurbished rolling stock can be deployed.

Personally I'll avoid EMR regional services as much as possible. I can't see an answer to the rolling stock issue in the short term, but calling off the RMT action might help to improve public perceptions a little.

Pretty much zero chance of the 171s as absolutely nothing currently planned to replace them down South and that was a condition of release.

 

[dk1]

Personally I'll avoid EMR regional services as much as possible. I can't see an answer to the rolling stock issue in the short term, but calling off the RMT action might help to improve public perceptions a little.

I wouldnt imagine the RMT would be interested in the rolling stock woes of EMR & the DfT would be the ones to agree to the union demands.

 

[Killingworth]

So there's our confirmation. There's very little light at the end of this tunnel. If 171s aren't being released and 170s are waiting for 196s to be introduced EMR should be tagging on and ordering some of their own new stock.

But the DfT don't travel on EMR's regional routes, especially on Sundays!

 

[LowLevel]

The Welsh 170 units will be along by December, apparently. I think this December but I suppose it could be the next one

3 or 4 more weeks (can't remember exactly which) of Skegness strengthening to go.

Driver training is still rolling along on the 170s.

Possibly some light in the tunnel with the RMT disputes with both sides reporting productive meetings and the chance of some workshops and negotiations to come with perhaps some leeway being given by both sides.

It is hard to stay positive though - it really is horrible at the moment.

 

[Grinder]

Two carriages from Sheffield to Liverpool and standing room only.

My son just complained that EMR don’t employ a clown for entertaining the passengers...you can add your own punchline about the DfT.

 

[edwin_m]

EMR are supposed to be receiving enough Class 170 and 171 units to resolve all the current difficulties but they're delayed and seems can't all be into service within 12 months. It might take 2 years for some? Thats if they're all received.

We who travel, or want to travel, on EMR trains may be very unhappy about the situation (I am), but we should spare a few thoughts for those who are trying to make the best of an increasingly bad job. They can see a long road ahead before all the refurbished rolling stock can be deployed.

Personally I'll avoid EMR regional services as much as possible. I can't see an answer to the rolling stock issue in the short term, but calling off the RMT action might help to improve public perceptions a little.

The Welsh 170 units will be along by December, apparently. I think this December but I suppose it could be the next one

3 or 4 more weeks (can't remember exactly which) of Skegness strengthening to go.

Driver training is still rolling along on the 170s.

Possibly some light in the tunnel with the RMT disputes with both sides reporting productive meetings and the chance of some workshops and negotiations to come with perhaps some leeway being given by both sides.

It is hard to stay positive though - it really is horrible at the moment.

If they can get everyone trained on the 170s, can any new ones that arrive go straight into service? Hopefully they won't go immediately for refurbishment/repainting - the 360s didn't and they sound to be in a worse condition internally than any 170s I can think of.

Is there any Skegness strengthening in half term week?

Now some in-person office work is resuming I'm probably going to have to put in an appearance at the Manchester office at some point. Hoping to postpone that as long as possible.