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East Midlands Parkway - Failure?

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InTheEastMids

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It's become a useful railhead for people who live in places like East Leake and Gotham who have business in London
I worked with people who travelled there from places like Nuthall and Hucknall to get to London - it was much quicker and less hassle than trying to get into Nottingham (or Derby)

Were they going to build lots of houses between Gotham and the A453.
There's a Local Development Order made for the redevelopment of the power station site (which includes a significant area South of the A453). There is no planned residential development so increase in usage will be inbound - people working at the new commercial/industrial units on site. Have never seen any suggestion that the area west of the station towards the River Soar is suitable for development, it's certainly very low-lying.

Parking at East Midlands Parkway (EMD) for £8 is a steal
Assuming this applies before 10am, I agree.
 
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Trainman40083

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I worked with people who travelled there from places like Nuthall and Hucknall to get to London - it was much quicker and less hassle than trying to get into Nottingham (or Derby)


There's a Local Development Order made for the redevelopment of the power station site (which includes a significant area South of the A453). There is no planned residential development so increase in usage will be inbound - people working at the new commercial/industrial units on site. Have never seen any suggestion that the area west of the station towards the River Soar is suitable for development, it's certainly very low-lying.


Assuming this applies before 10am, I agree.
I thought I'd seen something about the area between Gotham and Barton In Fabis/A453.
 

InTheEastMids

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I thought I'd seen something about the area between Gotham and Barton In Fabis/A453.
That may be different outside the scope of the LDO. Below are two links. The first is the LDO record on Rushcliffe Borough Council, so you can peruse all 250 odd documents to your hearts' content.
The second takes you directly to Arup's illustrative plan.

 

edwin_m

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That may be different outside the scope of the LDO. Below are two links. The first is the LDO record on Rushcliffe Borough Council, so you can peruse all 250 odd documents to your hearts' content.
The second takes you directly to Arup's illustrative plan.

The second link doesn't work - I presume it's what is found by opening the first link and searching in page for "illustrative".

Of note, it shows rail freight facilities retained and an eastern pedestrian access to the Parkway (presumably onto the Up Slow platform).
 

Merle Haggard

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I not infrequently travel from Wellingborough to Derby and further North. No Sheffield train deigns to stop along the 100 miles between St Pancras and Leicester so I have to change at Kettering (and watch a Sheffield pass through before my Nottingham connection arrives) and again at Leicester.
But if I choose the wrong half hour of the service the fast train calls at East Midlands Parkway. It then proceeds for 2 miles 8 chains before making another call. Although it's an exaggeration to say that you can see Parkway from the platform at Long Eaton the cooling towers give a good indication of the distance.
The similar procedure on the up means that, because of acceleration and deceleration, the service blocks the two Trent junctions for all other moves for much longer than if it was stopping at only one.
Neither seem to attract much custom apart from Long Eaton - Derby. I wonder why they are so favoured.

If Edward Thomas was still been around I'm sure that he could have composed something memorable about travelling on a train calling at E.M.P. :) .
 

Nottingham59

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But if I choose the wrong half hour of the service the fast train calls at East Midlands Parkway.
It's a pity that the Derby fast which calls at EMD is not coordinated with the local service from Leicester to Cleethorpes.

A convenient connection would create a third journey opportunity every hour from St Pancras to Nottingham, with one change at East Midlands for Attenborough, Beeston, Nottingham, Lowdham, etc. But with the timetable as it is, the wait at EMD is 20 minutes (fron xx53 to xx14) during which time a direct Nottingham service passes through EMD without stopping. So not useful for Nottingham bound traffic.
 

En

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it is my understanding that East Midlands Parkway ( apparently the code is EMD ) was developed in the hopes of attracting passengers who then ( and still currently when they need to ) drove to Grantham to get to London, however NNG to KGX , never mind Grantham to KGX on the ECML is quicker on average than the MML from EMD to StP...
 
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cactustwirly

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it is my understanding that EMP was developed in the hopes of attracting passengers who then ( and still currently when they need to ) drove to Grantham to get to London, however NNG to KGX , never mind Grantham to KGX on the ECML is quicker on average than the MML from EMP to StP...
It's about the same time. EMD to STP is 1hr 20
 

cle

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Grantham to Kings Cross can be 1h3 - basically an hour with some padding. It's a good deal quicker, 25/33% depending.
 

Ghostbus

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Well part of the story is surely the long delay between the original application in 2000 with a planned opening in 2001, to the reality of construction not beginning until 2007, and not opening until 2009, by which time of course the 2008 financial crisis had hit.

Contemporary news reports definitely seem to suggest the station was conceived, and pushed through sustained planning objections, to primarily serve the airport. It was specifically sited to be the quickest route by road to the airport, with passengers conveyed by a dedicated shuttle bus.

One can speculate therefore that its initial backers, the TOC and local council, were initially aiming for a wide catchment area, with Sheffield to the north, Leicester to the south, Stoke to the West and Lincoln to the east. Maybe they were even hoping it would draw flights away from Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham, Luton and Stansted. The turn of the Century was after all the point when the Middle East started to grow its airlines.

It's only once the project got taken over by Network Rail and called into a government enquiry, that serving the airport starts to look like an afterthought, and emphasis is seemingly being placed on it's wider public transport and green travel benefits, specifically it's benefit to locals and as a parkway station. They push the idea it's a an 850 capacity car park five minutes from the M1 with peak trains to London every 15 to 20 minutes. Also that it will be a Park & Ride terminal serving Nottingham, Derby and Leicester, relieving congested city roads and bus station car parks.
Tellingly, by the time people have noticed it is serving a tiny fraction of the passengers using Nottingham station, the TOC is disavowing original passenger forecasts by its predecessor, while suggesting the recession is also to blame. It even points out that the situation doesn't look quite as bleak once you include passengers transferring from Megabus coaches arriving from northern cities for onward travel to London. Network Rail is also pushing the idea demand forecasting is not an exact science, and things will pick up.

The shuttle bus was long gone, with calls for a monorail by a local MP looking quite Simpson-esque in hindsight. The original TOC were surely hoping to downgrade or even shut the station if or when it proved there was sufficient rail-borne demand, to be replaced by a new station at the airport, served by a spur to the main line.

An interesting side note: there were even quite concrete plans to use it as a park and ride for Donnington Park, which was going to be redesigned to host the British Grand Prix from 2010 and wasn't going to let anyone park at the circuit.
 

En

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It's about the same time. EMD to STP is 1hr 20
typical NNG to KGX is about that , as others have said there are 1h03 grantham -KGX, there's a Hull trains that does is it 1h01 based on the timetable on the LNER site ( 1148 off grantham into KGX at 1249)
but looking across the day i can't find a 1 h20 grantham to KGX most LNER seem to be about 1 h10 ( 1h07 - 1h13) with a stop at Stevenage and the none stop services at just over the hour
 
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cactustwirly

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typical NNG to KGX is about that , as others have said there are 1h03 grantham -KGX, there's a Hull trains that does is it 1h01 based on the timetable on the LNER site ( 1148 off grantham into KGX at 1249)
but looking across the day i can't find a 1 h20 grantham to KGX most LNER seem to be about 1 h10 ( 1h07 - 1h13) with a stop at Stevenage and the none stop services at just over the hour

It depends on where you're travelling from as well.
If traveling to Grantham is 10 minutes longer than EMD then there is no time saving. It is quite far to the East and EMD is next to the M1

I guess the trains that stop at Newark and Grantham are 9 car 800s so have plenty of space for cheap advances. EMR are running overcrowded Meridians with more expensive tickets
 

En

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It depends on where you're travelling from as well.
If traveling to Grantham is 10 minutes longer than EMD then there is no time saving. It is quite far to the East and EMD is next to the M1

I guess the trains that stop at Newark and Grantham are 9 car 800s so have plenty of space for cheap advances. EMR are running overcrowded Meridians with more expensive tickets
if you are travelling from the Bits of Notts and Leics that like to consider themselves in the Vale of Belvoir, or from Long Bennington, the Cropwells or even as a far west as Bingham (potentially within sight of the A46 / A52 ) getting round the South of Nottingham and West Bridgford at peak times may be a frustrating and time consuming affair becaude you are going to have to get onto the A52 / into Clifton and onto the A453 vs heading towards Grantham on the lanes or the A52 - as others have pointed out there is no other mode of public transport accessing East Midlands Parkway so for those without a car they are heading to Loughborough , Beeston or Long Eaton ( or Derby or Nottingham) if they want ot access the MML
 
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tram21

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Personally I think East Midlands Parkway is a success. It does exactly what it was designed to do, be a 'Park & Ride' from anywhere suitable to drive and park and get the train to London. I'm very pro Public Transport, but the station wasn't designed to be have public transport serving it, if you're not able to/ its not the best option to park and get the train, then you would use a different well served city station. With buses in the region being so good, it's easy to get to Nottingham/ Derby/ Long Eaton/ Loughborough/ Leicester by bus, if thats what you want to do.

The only reason you may want to use the bus to get there is if it's actually your closest station geographically. In this case, you're served by the Nottsbus on Demand DRT, which provides a good service to local communities.

It's always quite well used when I go, and I think it's successfully become the 'Park & Ride' destination for passengers without a close station to them but still want to use the train.
 

Ghostbus

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but the station wasn't designed to be have public transport serving it
Both the airport shuttle bus and local Park and Rides to the three cities are mentioned in news reports of its construction as design features. Hence presumably the long bus stop lane outside the front door. If anything, the placement of and walking route to the car park from the platforms actually looks a little bit inconvenient for car drivers, which is a little odd if getting them quickly onto trains was the primary design objective.
 

Merle Haggard

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Its sounds like a typical station.

Whos idea was it to build anyway ?

My recollection was that it was an obligation in the first M.M.L. franchise, though I'm not sure whether D.f.T. wanted it or it was a proposal by the franchisee in the tendering process.
I certainly recollect that M.M.L. did get a discount/extra payment in the franchise payments of about £100m for building it, even though I'm pretty sure it wasn't built until after that franchise ended.
There were many such broken promises not sure that the taxpayers always got their money back.
 

Nottingham59

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Its sounds like a typical station.

Whos idea was it to build anyway ?
It came about when there were a number of pointless organisations around at that time, covering a number of counties. One was the East Midlands Development Agency. There was another with a name like East Midlands Transport Partnership. One of those will have had a bit of money and inputs into transport policy.

And if you establish a multi-county agency, then they're going to promote some bonkers scheme that covers all the geographies within its remit. East Midlands Parkway is perfect for that, as it sits bang on the point where Nottinghamshire, Leicestershire and Derbyshire meet. The fact that it never had a purpose, being too far from Nottingham to be a park and ride, and too far from anywhere to be a useful railhead to London doesn't come into it.

The same thing in happening in Northern England. There's a body called the Northern Powerhouse Transport Partnership, or somesuch, which has promoted a high-speed rail line. Which is bonkers, because the distances involved mean the trains will never reach high speed: HS2 trains will take 40km to reach maximum speed. They also proposed a high speed rail station in Bradford, which is even more bonkers because Bradford is only 15km from Leeds. But Bradford has to have a station, because Bradford Local Authority is in the Partnership. The authorities for Stoke on Trent and for Sheffield were not in the partnership, so Northern Powerhouse Rail doesn't go anywhere near these.
 

Ghostbus

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It came about when there were a number of pointless organisations around at that time, covering a number of counties. One was the East Midlands Development Agency. There was another with a name like East Midlands Transport Partnership. One of those will have had a bit of money and inputs into transport policy.

And if you establish a multi-county agency, then they're going to promote some bonkers scheme that covers all the geographies within its remit. East Midlands Parkway is perfect for that, as it sits bang on the point where Nottinghamshire, Leicestershire and Derbyshire meet. The fact that it never had a purpose, being too far from Nottingham to be a park and ride, and too far from anywhere to be a useful railhead to London doesn't come into it.
It did have a purpose. It was to serve the airport. And as far as I can tell, the only people involved at the start were the TOC, who proposed it, presumably looking to grow passenger revenue, and the borough council, who were none too happy to approve it. Perhaps all those other agencies only got involved once it was called in for a public inquiry and things like local park and ride, parkway to London and general regional public transport benefits started to be mentioned.
My recollection was that it was an obligation in the first M.M.L. franchise, though I'm not sure whether D.f.T. wanted it or it was a proposal by the franchisee in the tendering process.
I certainly recollect that M.M.L. did get a discount/extra payment in the franchise payments of about £100m for building it, even though I'm pretty sure it wasn't built until after that franchise ended.
There were many such broken promises not sure that the taxpayers always got their money back.
The TOC was definitely the primary backer, obtaining planning permission from the borough council in 2001 for opening in 2001. Any money lost will be down to the calling in of the planning decison for a public inquiry. That's the reason that it was then taken over by Network Rail and only opened after that franchise ended.
 

WesternLancer

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My recollection was that it was an obligation in the first M.M.L. franchise, though I'm not sure whether D.f.T. wanted it or it was a proposal by the franchisee in the tendering process.
I certainly recollect that M.M.L. did get a discount/extra payment in the franchise payments of about £100m for building it, even though I'm pretty sure it wasn't built until after that franchise ended.
There were many such broken promises not sure that the taxpayers always got their money back.
This is my recollection of its origins.
 

DDB

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I belive that until recently it had a very uneven service pattern for London. I think the services are more evenly spread now which might help.
 

WesternLancer

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I seem to recall that the "express" bus did once called, but that was when Premiere ran it. Suspect the only bus service that might use it now is the demand response service, unless the service that used to be run by Nottingham Coaches 865? still runs. As others have said £8 parking would people off. Add in the current £2 bus fare..
Yes, I think you are correct. I believe that the original bus service that called there ran from Nottingham tot he airport and was financially supported by either Nottm City Council or one of the transport partnerships / East Mids Devel Agency mentioned elsewhere on the thread, when the station first opened - so it was a subsidised route and those bodies no doubt got to set it's route. This always seemed sensible to me for the wider benefits achieved - though I suspect they were not heavily used.

I can't recall when but when funding for that service was withdrawn, but when it was the route was taken over by Trent Buses as I recall on a commercial basis. I think they amended the route slightly, and dropped the station call. I think the bus swings into the tram park and ride site at Clifton however.
 

43055

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East midlands parkway can only be accessed by car, and once there, there is nothing else there apart from the railway station, unless you wanted to walk to Redhill marina and visit the coffee shop - but if you wanted to do that then go a little further down the lane and you can park at the marina.
I would consider the pakrway station to be among my main local(ish) railway stations, but I have absolutely no reason to use it as it is at the moment , now if they were to extend the number 9 midalnd classic route ( now Diamond bus) service a little further to there, it could open up some public transport options. but for as it is its just a bit of a lost cause.
For those who dont kow the Number 9 bus currently goes from:
Burton upon Trent
Winshill ( just outside Burton)
Newhall ( near swadlincote)
Swadlincote
Woodville ( near swadlincote)
Ashby de-la-zouch ( other bus services to Coalville, Loughborough, Leicester)
Melbourne ( bus services to Derby)
East Midlands Airport
East Midlands Gateway (EMG) less than 5 minutes from there is East midlands parkway
The 9 normally only have a couple mins at East Midlands Gateway so would need an extra bus.
 
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