East Kilbride/Barrhead electrification updates

[OB23Gone]

The link above is for tonight.
There were 3 trips early this morning, 1 to each platform

In deed it is for tonight this time a 385, 385123 as per RTT, and an earlier time. Went out last night/this morning. On the way down to the platform a hail shower started, didn't stop until just short of the car. Luckily the shelter was accessible so pics taken from there. Wasn't going out in the hail so hence only side views.There were orange/red ends to the Pan. Don't know if that is usual, just a new pan for the test run or to highlight it during the test if being observed during the traveyl to check stagger

 

[clc]

Barrhead line electric services will be full conductor operation until at least June 2024. Confirmed today that conductors will open and close doors on class 380s working services to and from Barrhead.

Seems the threat of industrial action in the lead up to the Christmas period has been enough to sway ScotRail management for now.

(I'm not able post the internal communication of this update, as I like my job too much to risk any sort of social media policy breach)

What’s the rationale for conductors opening the doors? It seems to me, a passenger, to be a very inefficient practice.

 

[John R]

What’s the rationale for conductors opening the doors? It seems to me, a passenger, to be a very inefficient practice.

There are numerous threads on the subject of conductors operating doors, and the related industrial disputes, so probably best not to go there on an infrastructure thread.

 

[380101]

In deed it is for tonight this time a 385, 385123 as per RTT, and an earlier time. Went out last night/this morning. On the way down to the platform a hail shower started, didn't stop until just short of the car. Luckily the shelter was accessible so pics taken from there. Wasn't going out in the hail so hence only side views.There were orange/red ends to the Pan. Don't know if that is usual, just a new pan for the test run or to highlight it during the test if being observed during the traveyl to check stagger

The 380 pans usually have the ends painted yellow, but looks like they've freshened them up for the route testing.

 

[route101]

Are they testing all the EMU classes to Barrhead?

 

[380101]

Are they testing all the EMU classes to Barrhead?

No, only the class 380 and class 385. They are the only ScotRail EMUs with Guard Operated Panels (GOP) for full conductor Open/Close or DOCO.

 

[hexagon789]

No, only the class 380 and class 385. They are the only ScotRail EMUs with Guard Operated Panels (GOP) for full conductor Open/Close or DOCO.

Are some services likely to see 385s then - possibly EK when that gets the OLE? Or is it more covering bases, i.e. what makes sense to test.

 

[380101]

Are some services likely to see 385s then - possibly EK when that gets the OLE? Or is it more covering bases, i.e. what makes sense to test.

Not sure to be honest, but it probably made sense for them to get all the clearance and acceptance tests on the route done for both classes the same week when they had all the required people available.

 

[hexagon789]

Not sure to be honest, but it probably made sense for them to get all the clearance and acceptance tests on the route done for both classes the same week when they had all the required people available.

Yeah, I can understand it making sense from an operational point of view, I just wondered if we'd see any 385s regularly.

Thanks anyway

 

[380101]

Yeah, I can understand it making sense from an operational point of view, I just wondered if we'd see any 385s regularly.

Thanks anyway

Only 380s planned for Barrhead electric services at the moment. Apart from Dumfries and Stranraer drivers, all other drivers that sign Barrhead sign the 380, as do all Glasgow, and soon to be Ayr, Conductors. Don't think they actually have any "spare" 385s to be used on Barrheads, as they only have one 380 available for the December timetable change.

No idea what the plan for East Kilbride will be unit wise, as there's almost no chance that ScotRail will have taken delivery of any new EMUs by then, so other routes that 380/385s run on will likely be short formed to allow an EMU service on EK line.

 

[hexagon789]

Only 380s planned for Barrhead electric services at the moment. Apart from Dumfries and Stranraer drivers, all other drivers that sign Barrhead sign the 380, as do all Glasgow, and soon to be Ayr, Conductors. Don't think they actually have any "spare" 385s to be used on Barrheads, as they only have one 380 available for the December timetable change.

No idea what the plan for East Kilbride will be unit wise, as there's almost no chance that ScotRail will have taken delivery of any new EMUs by then, so other routes that 380/385s run on will likely be short formed to allow an EMU service on EK line.

I'd have thought the various Ayrshire and Inverclyde frequency cuts would've free up more than one 380?

 

[Tayway]

I'd have thought the various Ayrshire and Inverclyde frequency cuts would've free up more than one 380?

Presumably a few will be taken up by the second Shotts service and reinstated Cathcart Circle.

 

[hexagon789]

Presumably a few will be taken up by the second Shotts service and reinstated Cathcart Circle.

But these would have needed existing units before the cuts anyway.

There are still 2 fewer Ayr services per and, until June, 2 fewer Gourock services than before. The revisions in Inverclyde will increase from 3 to 4tph, still down on the pre-COVID 5tph while Ayr will remain at 2tph vs 4tph.

Barrhead uses 1 unit, that still presumably will leave at least two free 380s with Shotts being 385s and Cathcart can be 318/320s (as indeed are some Inverclydes).

 

[EMU303]

But these would have needed existing units before the cuts anyway.

There are still 2 fewer Ayr services per and, until June, 2 fewer Gourock services than before. The revisions in Inverclyde will increase from 3 to 4tph, still down on the pre-COVID 5tph while Ayr will remain at 2tph vs 4tph.

Barrhead uses 1 unit, that still presumably will leave at least two free 380s with Shotts being 385s and Cathcart can be 318/320s (as indeed are some Inverclydes).

It will be interesting to see the impact of the no peak fares experiment. If that drives the need for further reinstatement of some pre covid capacity then could Scotrail be tight for EMU availability?

Is there a timescale for the announcement of new EMUs to replace 318/320…. Not to mention BEMUs?

 

[hux385]

Scotrail also had extra GLQ-EDB services, both as expresses and as stoppers via Cumbernauld. So I would imagine there are still plenty of spare EMUs? Unless SR have any plans to reinstate any of these services?

 

[Bald Rick]

It will be interesting to see the impact of the no peak fares experiment.

Indeed it will. If the number of people travelling in the peak does not increase significantly, and net revenue is down, will TS have the balls to reinstate the peak fares?

 

[EMU303]

Scotrail also had extra GLQ-EDB services, both as expresses and as stoppers via Cumbernauld. So I would imagine there are still plenty of spare EMUs? Unless SR have any plans to reinstate any of these services?

Someone more informed than me can confirm, but GLQ-EDB peak reverted back to pre covid 15 minute frequency a while ago (as did the Saturday service), but yes some services like GLQ/EDB via Cumbernauld were not fully reinstated and unlikely to be.

 

[Glaswegian]

Someone more informed than me can confirm, but GLQ-EDB peak reverted back to pre covid 15 minute frequency a while ago (as did the Saturday service), but yes some services like GLQ/EDB via Cumbernauld were not fully reinstated and unlikely to be.

Glasgow-Edinburgh via Falkirk High is not entirely back to the 15 minute frequency, but it gets close at some times, so there may not be many more units available.

 

[SC318250]

There should be spare capacity on Class 334 as Milngavie to Edinbirgh only runs in peak. So without going to speculative, some of them could free up 318/320 on Argyle line to release them to Inverclyde with 380 to Barrhead/East Kilbride

 

[380101]

But these would have needed existing units before the cuts anyway.

There are still 2 fewer Ayr services per and, until June, 2 fewer Gourock services than before. The revisions in Inverclyde will increase from 3 to 4tph, still down on the pre-COVID 5tph while Ayr will remain at 2tph vs 4tph.

Barrhead uses 1 unit, that still presumably will leave at least two free 380s with Shotts being 385s and Cathcart can be 318/320s (as indeed are some Inverclydes).

Whilst there are indeed fewer services post Covid, alot more 6 and 7 car units are now running on the Ayrshire routes all day, which has accounted for the "free" units.

Ayrshire services are getting busier and busier again, and I think they plan to increase the services again in June 24, so there still won't be scope to release 380s for additional Barrheads, unless the planners do some magic.

 

[60159]

Whilst there are indeed fewer services post Covid, alot more 6 and 7 car units are now running on the Ayrshire routes all day, which has accounted for the "free" units.

Ayrshire services are getting busier and busier again, and I think they plan to increase the services again in June 24, so there still won't be scope to release 380s for additional Barrheads, unless the planners do some magic.

ORR figures suggest biggest uk increase in passengers is Scotrail with 33%. That’s substantial and may mean longer or more trains putting pressure on adequate abailability to meet demand.

 

[hexagon789]

ORR figures suggest biggest uk increase in passengers is Scotrail with 33%. That’s substantial and may mean longer or more trains putting pressure on adequate abailability to meet demand.

Last year saw industrial action affecting ScotRail and an emergency timetable introduced; covering much of the measured period.

 

[clc]

It will be interesting to see the impact of the no peak fares experiment. If that drives the need for further reinstatement of some pre covid capacity then could Scotrail be tight for EMU availability?

Is there a timescale for the announcement of new EMUs to replace 318/320…. Not to mention BEMUs?

Scotrail said the new suburban fleet would be introduced from 2027, but as procurement hasn’t even started I can’t see that timescale being realistic.

 

[John R]

Scotrail said the new suburban fleet would be introduced from 2027, but as procurement hasn’t even started I can’t see that timescale being realistic.

Depends whether they want new build. I'm sure the owner of the Class 379s would be delighted to have the opportunity to convert them to BEMU and get some more use out of them, and with interest rates as they are, completely new build fleets are unlikely to be anywhere near as cheap as they were a few years ago.

 

[snowball]

As far as I know everything that has been said officially about Scottish train procurement has been that most of the existing national fleet will be replaced by new build in three tranches, as described in the notice linked from the first post of this thread. But that was 15 months ago, nothing official has been heard since, and there's been a spectacular financial deterioration since then, leading to a slowdown of the decarbonisation programme.

Six weeks ago @380101 claimed in post #31 of this thread that developments are imminent.

 

[clc]

Depends whether they want new build. I'm sure the owner of the Class 379s would be delighted to have the opportunity to convert them to BEMU and get some more use out of them, and with interest rates as they are, completely new build fleets are unlikely to be anywhere near as cheap as they were a few years ago.

Iain Docherty, who had some involvement in STPR2, made a cryptic comment on twitter a couple of days ago about Scotrail having ”a new rolling stock offer”. Perhaps that is what he was alluding to.

 

[chuff chuff]

Iain Docherty, who had some involvement in STPR2, made a cryptic comment on twitter a couple of days ago about Scotrail having ”a new rolling stock offer”. Perhaps that is what he was alluding to.

Was there not supposed to be an announcement last spring that was put off till this autumn,if they take on something like the 379's it's not gonna look good but as above there's little in the way of money to play with.

 

[snowball]

Was there not supposed to be an announcement last spring that was put off till this autumn,if they take on something like the 379's it's not gonna look good but as above there's little in the way of money to play with.

The first rolling stock procurement was said in August 2022 to be due to happen at an unspecified date in 2022-23. You may be thinking of the first review (now called a "refresh") of the decarbonisation programme, which was originally due in spring 2023 and is now due by the end of the year.

The UK Chancellor's autumn statement is due on 22 Nov. I think the Scotgov budget process will begin after that. Perhaps the timing of announcements on decarbonisation and train procurement will be influenced by that.

 

[clc]

Iain Docherty, who had some involvement in STPR2, made a cryptic comment on twitter a couple of days ago about Scotrail having ”a new rolling stock offer”. Perhaps that is what he was alluding to.

Just for accuracy, I rechecked and his exact words were “there’s at lot of things going on in the background not least different rolling stock offer and thinking about how much of the suburban network should be converted to metro.”

 

[chuff chuff]

The first rolling stock procurement was said in August 2022 to be due to happen at an unspecified date in 2022-23. You may be thinking of the first review (now called a "refresh") of the decarbonisation programme, which was originally due in spring 2023 and is now due by the end of the year.

The UK Chancellor's autumn statement is due on 22 Nov. I think the Scotgov budget process will begin after that. Perhaps the timing of announcements on decarbonisation and train procurement will be influenced by that.

Yeah that'll be it..