East Kilbride/Barrhead electrification speculation

[Southsider]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/east-kilbride-barrhead-electrification-updates.205349/

Just a general point - at may points in the past, politicians broadcast electrification projects from the rooftops. These-days they seem to be kept quiet. Trying to keep HM Treasury noses out I guess.

The Scottish government have announced this one several times now leaving confusion as to its status. As final plans have not yet been released, I suspect there will be reassessment of options following COVID and the uncertainty over the level of recovery for commuter lines. Things like platform extensions and double tracking could be pushed back with provision being made for them in the initial phases?

 

[NotATrainspott]

The Scottish government have announced this one several times now leaving confusion as to its status. As final plans have not yet been released, I suspect there will be reassessment of options following COVID and the uncertainty over the level of recovery for commuter lines. Things like platform extensions and double tracking could be pushed back with provision being made for them in the initial phases?

East Kilbride is only 30 mins away from Central today on a DMU stopper service. After electrification, it'll be even faster due to better acceleration. The commuter upgrade projects most affected by post-Covid travel plans will be mostly about much longer commutes. If you've got a 90 minute train to work each day, then you're much more likely to drop down to partial WFH than if you only need to go 30 mins. Glasgow City Council and the Scottish Government are still planning to invest in the creation of a Glasgow Metro network for urban journeys, and the EK upgrade fits pretty well into the same overall idea. It might not be a Metro line, but it will deliver the same benefits for the city region.

Platform extensions and double tracking are cheaper to deliver now rather than later. The Scottish Government now seems somewhat more keen on what could previously have been described as 'gold-plating' when it builds new projects. For instance, the Levenmouth reopening will be double track all the way for just a 2tph service.

 

[route101]

Hopefully we get the full redoubling and service improvements. I use the line a few times a week. I do wonder with EMUs have much time will be saved. The route is a slog as its uphill all the way.

 

[sannox]

Hopefully we get the full redoubling and service improvements. I use the line a few times a week. I do wonder with EMUs have much time will be saved. The route is a slog as its uphill all the way.

A good bit. The 156s suffer from dwell time issues in the peaks too. Stands of 2-3mins at stations were not uncommon.

 

[mcmad]

East Kilbride <snip>

Platform extensions and double tracking are cheaper to deliver now rather than later. The Scottish Government now seems somewhat more keen on what could previously have been described as 'gold-plating' when it builds new projects. For instance, the Levenmouth reopening will be double track all the way for just a 2tph service.

I believe that Leven branch is not fully double track, there will still be a single line from the main line down to the former earlseat loading pad and double track from there.

 

[Frankton Junct]

East Kilbride is only 30 mins away from Central today on a DMU stopper service. After electrification, it'll be even faster due to better acceleration. The commuter upgrade projects most affected by post-Covid travel plans will be mostly about much longer commutes. If you've got a 90 minute train to work each day, then you're much more likely to drop down to partial WFH than if you only need to go 30 mins. Glasgow City Council and the Scottish Government are still planning to invest in the creation of a Glasgow Metro network for urban journeys, and the EK upgrade fits pretty well into the same overall idea. It might not be a Metro line, but it will deliver the same benefits for the city region.

Platform extensions and double tracking are cheaper to deliver now rather than later. The Scottish Government now seems somewhat more keen on what could previously have been described as 'gold-plating' when it builds new projects. For instance, the Levenmouth reopening will be double track all the way for just a 2tph service.

This project is as much a capacity enhancement project as it is an electrification project. Pre-COVID I was a daily commuter from Pollokshaws West to Glasgow Central. During the school terms, the 08:22 service, booked for a 6 carriage 156, was always full and standing. Many of the passengers were Hutchesons’ Grammar School pupils travelling to Crossmyloof. I don't have statistics but my observation was that these pupils occupied 2 of the 6 carriages. If the service was short formed (4 carriages rather than 6) then it was not possible to board the train at Pollokshaws West.

The planning application submitted by Network Rail to Glasgow Council for Listed Building Consent for Pollokshaws West station (21_01142) includes the platform extension for 8 carriages. Based on the pre-COVID morning peak demand, and anecdotal evidence from former work colleagues who drove into Glasgow to avoid the overcrowding on the route, I believe that the capacity enhancement is justified. How much demand will recover after the COVID restrictions are fully lifted is debateable and probably belongs in a separate thread in the speculation section.

Previous Scottish Government electrification projects have had a broader scope than just work required to electrify the route - more like comprehensive route modernisations; for example, wider platforms and improved access for disabled passengers. I expect a similar scope for this project, although I am surprised that level access was not included in the planning application for Pollokshaws West station.

 

[Scotrail314209]

East Kilbride isn't the longest in terms of branches, but it's very surprising how busy it got pre-covid. Even towards East Kilbride in the mid morning, the trains would still be relatively busy, impossible to get a seat sometimes on a six car set during the peaks.

Do we think there might be lee-way to upgrade the signalling between Barrhead and Kilmarnock? I've noticed over the last few weeks there seems to be more signalling faults between those two points.

 

[clc]

When I lived in Clarkston I always used Williamwood as I found Neilston trains generally had less overcrowding than the East Kilbride trains. I also preferred the 314s wide doors as getting off a crowded 156 with those silly wee doors at the end of the carriage took a ridiculous amount of time. Is it not the case that overcrowding on the EK route got so bad that passenger numbers were falling? Or was the reduction in useage more a result of increasing unreliability? I’d often hear announcements at Central about an EK service being cancelled, no doubt the single track section was a contributory factor. Double tracking is needed for improved reliability if nothing else.

With regard to future demand, we don’t yet understand the long term impact of COVID. Most passengers on the EK line are travelling into Glasgow City Centre where using a private car is going to become very difficult as the council is reallocating road space to pedestrians and cyclists. There is also talk of introducing a workplace parking levy to deter commuting by car. Eventually I expect that road pricing will also be introduced as the Scottish Government wants to reduce car use by 20% by 2030.

Normally I’d expect that new EMUs, longer trains and higher frequencies, combined with disincentives to take the car would result in a growth in passenger numbers. However, the unknown factor is how much working from home will become the norm in future.

 

[route101]

Will be interesting to see how this project unfolds, if it gets watered down or not. I would like to see every 20min service with earlier and later services. The East Kilbride services at peak have been pretty quiet. The East Kilbride, Neilston and Milngavie branch have a similar passenger demographic to London commuterland.

 

[sannox]

This project is as much a capacity enhancement project as it is an electrification project. Pre-COVID I was a daily commuter from Pollokshaws West to Glasgow Central. During the school terms, the 08:22 service, booked for a 6 carriage 156, was always full and standing. Many of the passengers were Hutchesons’ Grammar School pupils travelling to Crossmyloof. I don't have statistics but my observation was that these pupils occupied 2 of the 6 carriages. If the service was short formed (4 carriages rather than 6) then it was not possible to board the train at Pollokshaws West.

The planning application submitted by Network Rail to Glasgow Council for Listed Building Consent for Pollokshaws West station (21_01142) includes the platform extension for 8 carriages. Based on the pre-COVID morning peak demand, and anecdotal evidence from former work colleagues who drove into Glasgow to avoid the overcrowding on the route, I believe that the capacity enhancement is justified. How much demand will recover after the COVID restrictions are fully lifted is debateable and probably belongs in a separate thread in the speculation section.

Difficult to work out what will happen with covid but the line was very busy prior. All the trains around peaks were horrendous- the door layout on the 156s wasn't really suitable for regular stops and crowds. If that train was short formed I used to not bother going for it and would go to a Cathcart Circle station or indeed wait on later trains. Not uncommon to see it leaving passengers on the platform.

There was a Barrhead stopper too which was 08:08 I think from Pollokshaws West which used to be 2 car and standing.

 

[Frankton Junct]

Will be interesting to see how this project unfolds, if it gets watered down or not. I would like to see every 20min service with earlier and later services. The East Kilbride services at peak have been pretty quiet. The East Kilbride, Neilston and Milngavie branch have a similar passenger demographic to London commuterland.

As I understand it, the scope of this project does not include an increase in service frequency. The flat junctions at Muirhouse and platform availability at Glasgow Central are the main constraints. The option selected is to lengthen the existing services, which is why platforms must be lengthened.

 

[route101]

When I lived in Clarkston I always used Williamwood as I found Neilston trains generally had less overcrowding than the East Kilbride trains. I also preferred the 314s wide doors as getting off a crowded 156 with those silly wee doors at the end of the carriage took a ridiculous amount of time. Is it not the case that overcrowding on the EK route got so bad that passenger numbers were falling? Or was the reduction in useage more a result of increasing unreliability? I’d often hear announcements at Central about an EK service being cancelled, no doubt the single track section was a contributory factor. Double tracking is needed for improved reliability if nothing else.

With regard to future demand, we don’t yet understand the long term impact of COVID. Most passengers on the EK line are travelling into Glasgow City Centre where using a private car is going to become very difficult as the council is reallocating road space to pedestrians and cyclists. There is also talk of introducing a workplace parking levy to deter commuting by car. Eventually I expect that road pricing will also be introduced as the Scottish Government wants to reduce car use by 20% by 2030.

Normally I’d expect that new EMUs, longer trains and higher frequencies, combined with disincentives to take the car would result in a growth in passenger numbers. However, the unknown factor is how much working from home will become the norm in future.

I think the car parks at East Kilbride and Hairmyres became full and people just drove into Glasgow instead, which resulted in a decrease in passenger numbers.

Quite often the service would be curtailed at Busby if there was disruption.