East Coast Trains Ltd Launch and branding

[LNW-GW Joint]

I thought they were all slower, with some approaching 5 hours journey time and most taking just over 4 hrs 30.

From RTT:
1S12 LNER 1030 Kings Cross(KGX), Edinburgh(EDB) arr 1514 (WTT, 1516 public)
1S93 ECTL 1045 KGX, EDB arr 1517.
1S13 LNER 1100 KGX, EDB arr 1520 (WTT, 1522 public)

Whether there are profitable passengers for 3 London-Edinburgh trains in half an hour is another story, of course.

 

[Ianno87]

From RTT:
1S12 LNER 1030 Kings Cross(KGX), Edinburgh(EDB) arr 1514 (WTT, 1516 public)
1S93 ECTL 1045 KGX, EDB arr 1517.
1S13 LNER 1100 KGX, EDB arr 1520 (WTT, 1522 public)

Whether there are profitable passengers for 3 London-Edinburgh trains in half an hour is another story, of course.

Certain days there certainly will be - Friday and Saturday mornings, for example.

 

[Surreytraveller]

The only thing companies know these days is marketing and PR. If only they put as much effort into actually providing a service

 

[NorthOxonian]

From RTT:
1S12 LNER 1030 Kings Cross(KGX), Edinburgh(EDB) arr 1514 (WTT, 1516 public)
1S93 ECTL 1045 KGX, EDB arr 1517.
1S13 LNER 1100 KGX, EDB arr 1520 (WTT, 1522 public)

Whether there are profitable passengers for 3 London-Edinburgh trains in half an hour is another story, of course.

It's going to be even more extreme from Newcastle - there will be periods where four Edinburgh trains depart in just twenty minutes! For example, the three trains you list leave Newcastle just after a CrossCountry service:

1S39 CrossCountry - dep 1335 arr 1509
1S12 LNER - dep 1343 arr 1514/1516
1S93 East Coast - dep 1347 arr 1517
1S13 LNER - dep 1354 arr 1520/1522

There is a fairly large market for travel between Newcastle and Edinburgh, but I don't think it's large enough for that frequency to be sustainable or profitable.

 

[Ianno87]

The only thing companies know these days is marketing and PR. If only they put as much effort into actually providing a service

Such as 5 trains per day each way between London and Edinburgh?

 

[Starmill]

There is a fairly large market for travel between Newcastle and Edinburgh, but I don't think it's large enough for that frequency to be sustainable or profitable.

Those trains all do different jobs and will have different groups of travellers onboard them however. They're not all Newcastle to Edinburgh only.

 

[centro-323]

I'm predicting a lot of 'What do you mean this train doesn't stop at Berwick/Durham/York?!' comments on board.

 

[Starmill]

I'm predicting a lot of 'What do you mean this train doesn't stop at Berwick/Durham/York?!' comments on board.

To be fair, if someone's not paying attention there are already a significant number of trains that do not stop at Durham or Berwick-upon-Tweed.

 

[centro-323]

True, those examples aren't the worst. But I also worry that some inattentive types might mistake the blue train for a TPE and be very displeased that they're going to London rather than Chester-le-Street. Extra stops to let off the confused and violently irritable could really cause quite a bit of bother.

I wonder if that happens often on some of the limited stop LNERs?

 

[Merseysider]

I'm predicting a lot of 'What do you mean this train doesn't stop at Berwick/Durham/York?!' comments on board.

Yes, there will be some people overcarried, and if they haven’t checked the departure board then that will be their own fault.

But I also worry that some inattentive types might mistake the blue train for a TPE

Again, if they don’t check, then it’s their own fault. Not worth worrying about.

Extra stops to let off the confused and violently irritable could really cause quite a bit of bother.

I don’t foresee this happening. They’ll get off with everyone else at the next station stop, possibly sans £59 for a new ticket.

Edited to add that all TMs worth their salt make at least one, sometimes copious, announcements about stopping patterns. If people still manage to get on the wrong train then it certainly isn’t ECTL’s fault.

 

[Darandio]

But I also worry that some inattentive types might mistake the blue train for a TPE and be very displeased that they're going to London rather than Chester-le-Street.

It's not that far back in history just about every single train was blue, the majority of people managed fine in an era where less information was readily available.

 

[centro-323]

I imagine there were still plenty of mistakes back in BR days, but people who tried to complain were probably told in no uncertain terms where they could go!

 

[Starmill]

I imagine there were still plenty of mistakes back in BR days, but people who tried to complain were probably told in no uncertain terms where they could go!

Some people will, occasionally, get on the wrong train. I think that's unavoidable without check-in.

But I don't think that the start of Lumo services will change the likelihood of this happening any more than any other timetable change where stopping patterns are revised.

 

[py_megapixel]

Has this problem ever occurred with First Hull Trains at Doncaster?

 

[centro-323]

Some people will, occasionally, get on the wrong train. I think that's unavoidable without check-in.

But I don't think that the start of Lumo services will change the likelihood of this happening any more than any other timetable change where stopping patterns are revised.

I hope you're right!

 

[Ianno87]

Has this problem ever occurred with First Hull Trains at Doncaster?

Happens with lots of trains. People from Cambridge ending up at King's Lynn rather than King's Cross or vice versa. It's hardly a new "problem". Nor a very large insurmountable problem for that matter.

 

[Starmill]

They will probably have an automatic announcement that plays while the train is at Newcastle saying that it is for London King's Cross only (or as appropriate) in any case. Alternatively they may give the onboard host a script which makes it clear.

 

[ModernRailways]

I'm predicting a lot of 'What do you mean this train doesn't stop at Berwick/Durham/York?!' comments on board.

Darlington and York I'd say are the only key ones. Every train to/from Newcastle stops at both (except the local Northern services) so they'd be the ones to potentially catch people out?
I went to Edinburgh last week and my train was non stop from Newcastle up so the only chance of being overcarried or travelling somewhere the train doesn't stop at is due to an information problem, which I wouldn't put on the TOC but the station.

 

[Siemens Trains]

From RTT:
1S12 LNER 1030 Kings Cross(KGX), Edinburgh(EDB) arr 1514 (WTT, 1516 public)
1S93 ECTL 1045 KGX, EDB arr 1517.
1S13 LNER 1100 KGX, EDB arr 1520 (WTT, 1522 public)

Whether there are profitable passengers for 3 London-Edinburgh trains in half an hour is another story, of course.

It's going to be even more extreme from Newcastle - there will be periods where four Edinburgh trains depart in just twenty minutes! For example, the three trains you list leave Newcastle just after a CrossCountry service:

1S39 CrossCountry - dep 1335 arr 1509
1S12 LNER - dep 1343 arr 1514/1516
1S93 East Coast - dep 1347 arr 1517
1S13 LNER - dep 1354 arr 1520/1522

There is a fairly large market for travel between Newcastle and Edinburgh, but I don't think it's large enough for that frequency to be sustainable or profitable.

Maybe useful contingency, given the possibilities of staff shortage, carriage shortage, too many trains needing maintenance at one time, return of social distancing and so on.
You sometimes find this situation with air travel too. Different airlines can operate between the same airports at similar departure and arrival times.

 

[Starmill]

Darlington and York I'd say are the only key ones. Every train to/from Newcastle stops at both (except the local Northern services) so they'd be the ones to potentially catch people out?
I went to Edinburgh last week and my train was non stop from Newcastle up so the only chance of being overcarried or travelling somewhere the train doesn't stop at is due to an information problem, which I wouldn't put on the TOC but the station.

Not all trains call at Darlington. 1220 Edinburgh to London King's Cross on Sundays does not stop there, nor does the 0540 Edinburgh to London King's Cross on weekdays.

Until 2019 a Sunday Aberdeen to London King's Cross didn't stop, and quite a number of TransPennine Express services.

 

[urpert]

Nah, Lumio sounds like a dodgy dish soap. Lumo keeps it to two syllables, catchier and easier for folk to remember

Also too similar to Lumia (trade mark probably still owned by Microsoft from their brief Nokia flirtation)

 

[800001]

True, those examples aren't the worst. But I also worry that some inattentive types might mistake the blue train for a TPE and be very displeased that they're going to London rather than Chester-le-Street. Extra stops to let off the confused and violently irritable could really cause quite a bit of bother.

I wonder if that happens often on some of the limited stop LNERs?

I would say it happens 2 or times per month, but usually it is from King's Cross and its for stevenage or Peterborough

 

[zero]

Not all trains call at Darlington. 1220 Edinburgh to London King's Cross on Sundays does not stop there, nor does the 0540 Edinburgh to London King's Cross on weekdays.

Until 2019 a Sunday Aberdeen to London King's Cross didn't stop, and quite a number of TransPennine Express services.

So the LUMO services which will use unusual lines are:

avoiding Darlington
northbound/down: pass DAR approx 2.5 hours after departure
1S93 dep KGX 1025 (Sat) / 1023 (Sun)
[1S97 dep KGX 1827 (Sat)
1S99 dep KGX 1923 (Sun)] - won't be able to see anything until next summer
[1S99 dep KGX 2018 (Mon-Fri)] - will never be able to see anything

southbound/up:
Mon-Sat all services (not unusual any more)
Sun all services except:
1E86 dep EDI 1545
1E88 dep EDI 1852


avoiding York
northbound/down only, pass York Yard approx 2 hours after departure
1S91 dep KGX 0545 (Mon-Sat)
1S93 dep KGX 1045 (Mon-Fri)
1S95 dep KGX 1348 (Sat)
1S97 dep KGX 1436 (Mon-Fri)


Have I got this right?
Looks like I will have to go twice if I want to cover both... if I can get it for £7.90 each way then not really a problem

Is it possible that the trains scheduled for the DML at Darlington will be diverted through platform 4?

On RTT some services are still marked "as required" - are they not planning to run the full number of services initially?
Is the inaugural date going to be Sun 24 Oct or Mon 25 Oct?

 

[Darandio]

Is it possible that the trains scheduled for the DML at Darlington will be diverted through platform 4?

Entirely possible. They may well be booked on the avoiding lines but on the day it will depend how things are running and they could be sent through the platform to avoid conflicts. Happens many a time with freights and TPE services that weren't calling there.

 

[backontrack]

Not all trains call at Darlington. 1220 Edinburgh to London King's Cross on Sundays does not stop there, nor does the 0540 Edinburgh to London King's Cross on weekdays.

Until 2019 a Sunday Aberdeen to London King's Cross didn't stop, and quite a number of TransPennine Express services.

Odd stopping pattern for that 12:20 Sunday train! Edinburgh, Morpeth, Newcastle, Durham, York, Grantham, London.

I distinctly remember that the Highland Chieftain used to skip Darlington and Berwick.

 

[hexagon789]

I distinctly remember that the Highland Chieftain used to skip Darlington and Berwick.

Still skips Berwick southbound; I think that pre-Eureka timetable it was usually Peterborough, York & Newcastle both ways, those being the usual Edinburgh "fast" calls.

 

[backontrack]

Still skips Berwick southbound; I think that pre-Eureka timetable it was usually Peterborough, York & Newcastle both ways, those being the usual Edinburgh "fast" calls.

Hmm, interesting...it called at Berwick yesterday (source: I was on it), but then that's the temporary timetable.

 

[hexagon789]

Hmm, interesting...it called at Berwick yesterday (source: I was on it), but then that's the temporary timetable.

Actually it appears Berwick is a normal call on Sundays, it's only Weekdays that the HC is fast Edinburgh to Newcastle.

 

[backontrack]

Actually it appears Berwick is a normal call on Sundays, it's only Weekdays that the HC is fast Edinburgh to Newcastle.

Ahh. Thank you.

 

[hexagon789]

Ahh. Thank you.

No problem, apologies for the mistake.

I want to say - "I'm sure it used to omit Berwick on Sundays pre-COVID at least", but I'm no longer sure!

Tbh I've never understood why the southbound omits Berwick these days, it doesn't really make much difference timewise and interrupts the usual 'fast' calling pattern.