East Coast to charge for WiFi in Standard

[John @ home]

I have just received an email from East Coast telling me that from "early October" they will charge Standard passengers for WiFi - up to 15 mins free then £4.95 for 60 mins or £9.95 for 24 hours.

 

[ainsworth74]

There is a short piece on the EC website.

Edit: Having read the article now, I like the way EC are undercutting VT by 5p for 60mins and 24hr access

 

[EWS 58038]

There is a short piece on the EC website.

Edit: Having read the article now, I like the way EC are undercutting VT by 5p for 60mins and 24hr access

It's a bloody shame what that state owned operator does. Why would someone who pays a rip-off fare to use a crappy "Mallard coach" with horrible seating have to pay for a service which isn't that good after all?

Believe me... If Elaine could charge you for fresh air she would.

Where are the good days? I hope sea Containers has the guts to tender again... sure any operator would do better then DOR.

 

[Z12XE]

I hope sea Containers has the guts to tender again... sure any operator would do better then DOR.

Wasn't WiFi Only free in First Class on GNER?

 

[Darandio]

It certainly was, that "disgrace " that was NXEC made it free in standard.

 

[Royston Vasey]

It's a bloody shame what that state owned operator does. Why would someone who pays a rip-off fare to use a crappy "Mallard coach" with horrible seating have to pay for a service which isn't that good after all?

Believe me... If Elaine could charge you for fresh air she would.

Where are the good days? I hope sea Containers has the guts to tender again... sure any operator would do better then DOR.

East Coast's wifi is so poor that this is a way of regulating it's use. I travel for business regularly and am always frustrated at how little work I can do on the train. If charging it means it is an acceptable speed for its users then fine. It is worth it for me knowing how much more work I can do.

The better alternative would be upgrading the wifi, I gather the system is different to that of GC which is always fast no matter of load.

Of course, people on here would moan about the cost of upgrading it for the benefit of us big bad business types. If the alternative is higher fares, then I'd rather pay for wifi. It is still an advantage over air travel and £10 is not a big expense for the potential benefit for business travellers, which is rightly a big market for the ECML.

To my mind, either generate revenue from it and have it as a useful, acceptably fast connection, or have it free and it's no use to anyone!

 

[Snapper]

Grand Central have just said this:



“Grand Central Railway confirmed that it had no plans to introduce similar charges and that WiFi will remain free for both standard and first class passengers on its North Eastern and West Riding routes.”

 

[222007]

I thought they already did opps shows how observant i was lol

 

[jon0844]

I thought it was stupid to offer free Wi-Fi for all, as it would (and no doubt did) impact on the quality of service. They could try and block certain services or ports, which I think they also did, but then you've got a sub-standard service. I've used it on EC and it can be very good one minute, then useless the next.

When you have limited bandwidth and a number of other technical issues, especially using a service that is not as advanced as that used on other lines (it's older and works in a different way), then it does make me wonder why National Express ever opted to make it free. I guess it was to give them an edge, but it did impact on the service without a doubt.

Yes, the system they have is probably all paid for (besides the ongoing data charges) so it can be used as a loss-leader, but is there any reason to if the extra revenue from charging can be used to subsidise something else (like ticket prices)? Also, where does the money come to upgrade the hardware in the future?

The other systems won't go free as they were installed free of charge by the provider, so going free would mean no revenue at all. Indeed, if everything was to be free then there's very little incentive to fit Wi-Fi on future trains. It might be worth doing so either for first class only (if it sells more first class tickets), but is it good to do it because everyone else is doing it, when I doubt anyone wants to do it in the first place. Wasn't National Express the first to do it and effectively screw it up for everyone else?

More and more people are quite happy to use their own 3G (and then 4G in the future) and get much faster speeds, without any restrictions.

All I will say is that the charges seem too high, but it might be the case that EC wants to keep prices high to put people off and reserve bandwidth for first class users.

 

[jopsuk]

wonder how they'll police the 15 minutes? Whilst it is a pain, I'm more than capable of clearing my cache/cookies/temp files etc, and have the ability (due to owning my own domain) to create thousands of email addresses- in fact, my hosting even supports extending my existing addresses without any fiddling required (so I can have an address that is eg email@mydoamin.com, and 1+email@mydomain.com , 2+email@mydomain.com etc all send to the same address).

If they lock it down by MAC address then:
A: ah well
B: they're competant.

Pretty much back to GNER's pricing, isn't it? They had a four-hour option too I think though- but no free 15 minutes.

 

[bangor-toad]

If they lock it down by MAC address then:
A: ah well
B: they're competant.

C: Force me to run Macshift every 15 minutes and generate a new MAC address.
For every block there's a cheat...


Still, it all seems to be a reasonably sensible plan if it will improve the overall service.

Cheers,
Jason

 

[trentside]

I think this is actually a good move by DOR/East Coast. I have no idea why NXEC made it free, as most other TOCs have a charge in Standard. Clearly, the system wasn't able to support it, and this is a good move for their customers who actually need to use the system for work etc.

So long as the seat reservation charge doesn't raise it's ugly head again...

 

[Dewedin]

Oh well, tethering through my phone for me then.

 

[jon0844]

Oh well, tethering through my phone for me then.

Get a MiFi then sell access to people around you for a discount on the EC price!!

And, I must add that I hate Apple for introducing this thing called Tethering and for networks like O2 to start charging people extra to use it. In the past, you simply hooked up your mobile to a computer via USB or over Bluetooth - and it worked. You used your existing data allowance. Simple, and cheaper.

There, glad I got that off my chest! (At least Android phones with OS 2.2 will let you share your net connection over Wi-Fi without extra charge).

 

[blackfive460]

I tried using it a few times but it was so slow as to be almost unusable. Always ended up using Virgin's 30p a day instead.

(Ooh look, I've just become a Gateline Assistant! Why can't I stay a First Class Passenger?)

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

Well, another reason to use Grand Central, huh?

 

[jon0844]

Despite what they say, it would make sense for them to introduce a charge (but lower than EC) than simply press on with a free service that is always going to be open to abuse.

 

[Deerfold]

If they're going to charge (especially that much - after all who's going to use 24 hours worth) it'll need to be available a lot more often. 4 of the last 6 EC trains I went on either weren't fitted or it was broken. One of the other two dropped my connection 6 times. I'll be using my dongle - it's as reliable as the current service and costs a fraction as much.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well, another reason to use Grand Central, huh?

It'll still be cheaper for me on an advance ticket even if I cose to pay for the wifi.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There is a short piece on the EC website.

Now that is cheeky

Wireless internet that’s quicker, better quality, and more reliable – that’s what you asked for, and that’s what we’re pleased to deliver.

Yes I did. I don't remember asking for it to be a tenner though.

 

[dk1]

Modern Railways October issue has a quite interesting feature reguarding onboard wi-fi.

 

[Aictos]

It's a shame but it's also due to heavy bandwidth sites like Youtube which slow down access for all, why filtering couldn't have been used with a Sorry, this site is blocked to improve web access for all message which would have surfficed.

I use the East Coast wifi when travelling Peterborough/Kings Cross to Edinburgh as I can use the wifi on my laptop which is a tad more comfortable then using my Blackberry.

Still, as long as these changes mean investing and improving what I consider to be a poor relation to Virgin's setup then I'm all for it.

 

[TGV]

East Coast's wifi is so poor that this is a way of regulating it's use. I travel for business regularly and am always frustrated at how little work I can do on the train. If charging it means it is an acceptable speed for its users then fine. It is worth it for me knowing how much more work I can do.

The better alternative would be upgrading the wifi, I gather the system is different to that of GC which is always fast no matter of load.

Of course, people on here would moan about the cost of upgrading it for the benefit of us big bad business types. If the alternative is higher fares, then I'd rather pay for wifi. It is still an advantage over air travel and £10 is not a big expense for the potential benefit for business travellers, which is rightly a big market for the ECML.

To my mind, either generate revenue from it and have it as a useful, acceptably fast connection, or have it free and it's no use to anyone!

I don't have to read any further on this one - the poster quoted here has hit the nail right on the head. This is EXACTLY why they're charging for it. Also, all the EC haters, put your knives away - this is very common in the industry and to be honest they should be commended for having the attitude they are.

The fact is that business passengers spend 3 to 4 times the money on their journey (NB - "journey" does not just mean ticket price) and as valued customers, they are going to get frustrated by chavs on laptops or wi-fi phones downloading ring tones, or watching videos on youtube while they can't get on with work. If the chavs have to pay for this then they're less likely to clog up the bandwidth. And after all - they don't NEED to do that - they're only doing it because it's there.

So yeah, I'm supporting EC on this one. Makes good commercial sense. Network Rail may be a not for profit organisations, but TOC's aren't!

 

[monkey]

East Coast's wifi is so poor that this is a way of regulating it's use. I travel for business regularly and am always frustrated at how little work I can do on the train. If charging it means it is an acceptable speed for its users then fine. It is worth it for me knowing how much more work I can do.

The better alternative would be upgrading the wifi, I gather the system is different to that of GC which is always fast no matter of load.

...I think it has improved of late, and its helped that they blocked bandwith intensive sites such as youtube. it also depends on the part of the line you're travelling on... as it uses variety of ways of connecting ot the web. I think the problem with it was the system the original franchise holders chose, which was much poorer one than some others available at the time, and hence has had knock on effect.

I think its step backward though, we already pay high fares, and I think nx introduced something that should have been followed as a lead not gone back on. the charges are just too high as well... least 15 mins is free I guess...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Still, as long as these changes mean investing and improving what I consider to be a poor relation to Virgin's setup then I'm all for it.

...I think virgins is joint thing with t-mobile, hence why its poor, as they've never been the best provider wifi. I'm guessing its a long term profit sharing agreement, which meant t-mobile took the bulk cost of installing equipment, in exchange for large chunk of profit...

 

[jon0844]

It wasn't T-Mobile that installed the system. It was a system that uses a combination of WiMax and T-Mobile's 3G/HSPA network. It was paid for by the company that installed it, to make its money back from usage. That's why it won't go free UNLESS the TOC pays for it.

EC uses a satellite system that has 3G as a fallback. By the sound of it, it's being upgraded (the Swedish company does offer more advanced systems now, as you'd expect given GNER was the first to install Wi-Fi on a train in the UK). It can be fast but there's a high level of latency.

Any operator can block sites and ports to stop streaming or file sharing, but then people will moan that the Wi-Fi service, to them, is useless. I wonder if YouTube and iPlayer will be reinstated when people have to pay (or for first class users)?

Anyway, I'm all for EC charging (just not sure about how much they're trying to charge) as there are limited resources.

 

[monkey]

^^I stand corrected, I was guessing it was t-mobile thing, from the branding that used to be used on trains. I don't think sites like youtube and iplayer should be allowed, until the system is good enough, even if it is a paid service...

 

[jon0844]

On the Heathrow Express service, it's really efficient in how the train switches from using Wi-Fi at Paddington, to 3G on the move and back to Wi-Fi in the tunnel to Heathrow. All seamless, and fast.

T-Mobile doesn't really offer its hotspot service anymore (at least in the UK) but you can still pay for access via your T-Mobile mobile, or use an existing account with other partners. I have to confess that I don't know who their partners are as I've just used my own mobile phone/MiFi/dongle for data as it costs nothing (besides your data allowance, which in my case is 8GB per month).

 

[leedstraindude]

I don't have to read any further on this one - the poster quoted here has hit the nail right on the head. This is EXACTLY why they're charging for it. Also, all the EC haters, put your knives away - this is very common in the industry and to be honest they should be commended for having the attitude they are.

The fact is that business passengers spend 3 to 4 times the money on their journey (NB - "journey" does not just mean ticket price) and as valued customers, they are going to get frustrated by chavs on laptops or wi-fi phones downloading ring tones, or watching videos on youtube while they can't get on with work. If the chavs have to pay for this then they're less likely to clog up the bandwidth. And after all - they don't NEED to do that - they're only doing it because it's there.

So yeah, I'm supporting EC on this one. Makes good commercial sense. Network Rail may be a not for profit organisations, but TOC's aren't!

Get over yourself! chavs on laptops!! That was the most offensive thing ive read on here for a long time. Plent of non chav people use standard too. Any mods following this I think its time to lock this one.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Get over yourself! chavs on laptops!! That was the most offensive thing ive read on here for a long time. Plent of non chav people use standard too. Any mods following this I think its time to lock this one.

Rather an overreaction. It's an internet forum, its quite legitimate to state an opinion and use hyperbole to do so. You may disagree with his wording but locking a healthy debate would be silly; TGV's point is quite valid - Youtube is both high in bandwidth and more frivolous than genuine business use. Lose the business passengers and everyone else's fares will rise.

 

[Deerfold]

Rather an overreaction. It's an internet forum, its quite legitimate to state an opinion and use hyperbole to do so. You may disagree with his wording but locking a healthy debate would be silly; TGV's point is quite valid - Youtube is both high in bandwidth and more frivolous than genuine business use. Lose the business passengers and everyone else's fares will rise.

But then EC don't allow any streaming sites they know about - including fairly low bandwidth streaming radio.

 

[mrcheek]

Get over yourself! chavs on laptops!! That was the most offensive thing ive read on here for a long time. Plent of non chav people use standard too. Any mods following this I think its time to lock this one.

CHAV ALERT! CHAV ALERT!
On the internets wes believes in freedoms of expression innit mate.

 

[jon0844]

I think the comment about chavs on laptops was outrageous. I mean, how could the poster not say 'chav on a stolen laptop'?

(Joke!)