East Coast Scuppered

[MadCommuter]

Call in DMUs from where?

Nene Valley Railway.









Kidding

 

[PhilipW]

Oh because all East coast drivers sign every DMU don't they? And if it brought the wires down, wouldn't they be kind of blocking the line?

I see you seem to be rather submissive of my suggestion of running DMUs between Peterborough and Cambridge. As to where they come from and who drives them, I as a simple passenger cannot answer that. The train operators will have to work that out.

I think that any passenger who has just been offloaded at Peterborough for a long wait and possible bus has a perfect right to ask why he cannot continue his journey by train on a perfectly resaonable diversionary route. The mechanismm for arranging that is up to the TOC.

To have this reasonable suggestion just scorned on is hardly putting the interests of the customer first. I have to say that just dismissing the idea seems rather arrogant.

 

[crewmeal]

Surely at this time of the year it's important to keep people moving. Again operators should hire charter stock to help. If there is a failure what is the problem (in this case a 91) about moving it out of the way to clear the line? Whilst it's great to use your ticket on other operator's services, it still doesen't alter the fact that one train blocking a line can throw the whole network into chaos.

 

[route:oxford]

I see you seem to be rather submissive of my suggestion of running DMUs between Peterborough and Cambridge. As to where they come from and who drives them, I as a simple passenger cannot answer that. The train operators will have to work that out.

I think that any passenger who has just been offloaded at Peterborough for a long wait and possible bus has a perfect right to ask why he cannot continue his journey by train on a perfectly resaonable diversionary route. The mechanismm for arranging that is up to the TOC.

To have this reasonable suggestion just scorned on is hardly putting the interests of the customer first. I have to say that just dismissing the idea seems rather arrogant.

They could always use the couple of 180s they've got spare kicking about...

 

[MCR247]

I see you seem to be rather submissive of my suggestion of running DMUs between Peterborough and Cambridge. As to where they come from and who drives them, I as a simple passenger cannot answer that. The train operators will have to work that out.

I think that any passenger who has just been offloaded at Peterborough for a long wait and possible bus has a perfect right to ask why he cannot continue his journey by train on a perfectly resaonable diversionary route. The mechanismm for arranging that is up to the TOC.

To have this reasonable suggestion just scorned on is hardly putting the interests of the customer first. I have to say that just dismissing the idea seems rather arrogant.

Well I don't see how its arrogant, its not really a viable option is it?

'I know, lets put fares up 100%, so EC can make enough money to lease some 172s which can be put in warm storage in a depot, so they can make an appearance every few months...'

Not sure many passengers would like that very much?

Surely at this time of the year it's important to keep people moving. Again operators should hire charter stock to help. If there is a failure what is the problem (in this case a 91) about moving it out of the way to clear the line? Whilst it's great to use your ticket on other operator's services, it still doesen't alter the fact that one train blocking a line can throw the whole network into chaos.

Well I'm not sure EC & NR would say

"lets leave it there for a bit, cause a bit of distruption"

would they? I would like to think they would move it when they can and as quick as they can

They could always use the couple of 180s they've got spare kicking about...

I'm not sure any drivers sign them, could be wrong though

 

[jon0844]

I think a big problem that the general public can't understand (and why should they if they're not told) is that a driver can't just jump in another train and run it.

So, besides popping along to the nearby Europtrain and hiring in some backup rolling stock, they'd also need to supply some drivers...

 

[the sniper]

To have this reasonable suggestion just scorned on is hardly putting the interests of the customer first.

Why is it MCR247's responsibility to put the customer first? The TOCs aren't even in that business!

I have to say that just dismissing the idea seems rather arrogant.

I'd call him a realist, not arrogant.

If there is a failure what is the problem (in this case a 91) about moving it out of the way to clear the line?

If it has brought down all the OHL across four lines, it's not really a quick job.

 

[imagination]

11:42 Sunderland - King's Cross delayed 331 mins and counting...

 

[dk1]

11:42 Sunderland - King's Cross delayed 331 mins and counting...

Nice bit of Sunday overtime for the traincrew there.

 

[Deerfold]

Nice bit of Sunday overtime for the traincrew there.

Given some of the passengers they'll have to deal with probably not *that* nice.

 

[TheBigD]

From WNXX...

NR has the whole of Little Barford and surrounding area under possession.

Est for Slows is 0600 Mon and fasts are 0600 TUES!!

 

[PhilipW]

I see that everyone seems to be pouring cold water over my suggestion of running replacements trains between Peterborough and Cambridge.

The 10:00pm news has just reported that replacement buses are being laid on between Peterborough and Cambridge to relieve the problem.

So, despite the line between the two being fully open, the TOCs are able to run replacement buses but not replacement trains !!!

Sure there are hurdles to overcome as I, as a passenger, find this very strange. Hardly a way to run a railway.

All this talk by Network Rail and the TOCS of running buses as a last resort. Hmmm. I suspect that a lot of the passengers on the buses think that they are being bussed past the piece of line that is down and are not fully aware of the trick being played on them.

 

[TheBigD]

I see that everyone seems to be pouring cold water over my suggestion of running replacements trains between Peterborough and Cambridge.

The 10:00pm news has just reported that replacement buses are being laid on between Peterborough and Cambridge to relieve the problem.

So, despite the line between the two being fully open, the TOCs are able to run replacement buses but not replacement trains !!!

Sure there are hurdles to overcome as I, as a passenger, find this very strange. Hardly a way to run a railway.

All this talk by Network Rail and the TOCS of running buses as a last resort. Hmmm. I suspect that a lot of the passengers on the buses think that they are being bussed past the piece of line that is down and are not fully aware of the trick being played on them.

Where do you think the spare trains and crews are for these extra services?
It's a genuine question by the way.

The first XC 170, a 2 car, that becomes spare at Cambridge on a Sunday is at 2100. It then goes for fuel etc. Given that XC have cancelled some 170 services today as they haven't had enough crews who do think will be working them? East Coast crews are not trained on either the route or traction. You've then got to fit in fuelling and servicing prior to Monday mornings service.

For what it's worth I feel that GNER/NXEC and now EC were all p*ss poor at managing major disruption.

Having their crews sign the route via Cambridge would be a start as it would allow the HST services to go that way and a limited service to operate, BUT would incur extra coasts. The TOC, or most likely the DfT, will have done their sums and decreed it isn't cost effective to do so.

 

[MadCommuter]

I think everyone would like to see diversionary services via Cambridge, but it simply isn't cost effective, as stated above. There is very little slack on the network now that additional resources aren't available when things go wrong. For example, consider the planned diversions aroung Reading this Xmas. Months of planning, training and advance warning has gone into that.

 

[jon0844]

And if the lines came down somewhere else, even all that work would be useless.

We're trying to get rid of diesel trains aren't we? Unless every train had a diesel engine that allowed it to limp along, you just can't do much besides lay on the buses (which do, after all, have a lot more flexibility). In bad weather, the problem then is that the buses themselves could suffer.

 

[MadCommuter]

you just can't do much besides lay on the buses (which do, after all, have a lot more flexibility).

That's the point really. A bus and a driver can easily follow a map and a few signs with no specific route knowledge.

 

[43167]

Crews not signing via Cambridge stretches back to GNER days who appeared to be blind to alternative routes when there were engineering work on the main line & persist with use of rail replacment coaches.

 

[YorkshireBear]

travelling to london tuesday morning hope its cleared by then, travelling down on FHT back on EC rekon wihtout further problems we'll be alright?

shame the ECML was done so shoddily, hope its not a botch job repair too....

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Stuff still looking bad on the WCML too, VT services are up to 100 late still, and the Inverness/Fort William Sleeper is just 'Delayed'... it's gonna be a long night.

 

[jon0844]

That's the point really. A bus and a driver can easily follow a map and a few signs with no specific route knowledge.

And, I have to say that some of the buses I've been on when the ECML has been closed for engineering work haven't been buses but very nice and comfortable coaches, with individual ventilation controls, pull down tables and lights - and even a toilet.

The annoyance is the extra time, but comfort has been fine.

Perhaps the industry could simply ensure they had lots of coaches for emergency use around the UK, with drivers on call, and the coaches fitted with proper winter/snow tyres for the current weather; which may be cheaper than any other alternatives being suggested.

My wife went to Sweden earlier this month and the snow was equally as bad as here, and she had no problems on either coach to/from the airport.

 

[Flywaver]

Lol.. I'm actually night ferry Driver on shed at Cambridge for XC. I'm dealing with five units. Although im waiting for fuel on last two. We had problems too as Points failure at Stansted meant we had one trapped and many of ours were terminated at Cambridge.
There would be no chance of me running at shuttle to Peterborough as ill need a Guard and they don't have rostered nights.
None of you will like this opinion but I left driving Electrics because they can't cope with Heat,Cold and wind. I don't see electrification as the future as I can see another source of power like Hydrogen fuel cells perhaps. I have found that if I have engine trouble ive still got one or two more engines to keep me going.
I understand overheads on HSLs but more work and money was put in and the space
between Stantions is closer.

 

[jon0844]

How crazy an idea is electric - as in electric batteries - to move a train? You'd still charge via electric wires as you do now - but the train could run under its own power at any time. Yes, it would need a lot of power cells - but how many would depend on the range you wanted to give it, the speed and so on. You'd also presumably be able to cut power to unimportant things, like air conditioning etc.

There's a new Vauxhall/Opel/GM car that has an electric motor powered by batteries, and rather than have a secondary petrol engine, it has a petrol generator that drives the electric motor. That seems like a very sensible idea, except that the train can be charged via electricity - not fuel (although that's actually not actually an impossible idea either).

 

[Aictos]

Crews not signing via Cambridge stretches back to GNER days who appeared to be blind to alternative routes when there were engineering work on the main line & persist with use of rail replacment coaches.

I believe for all NXEC's faults they were keen on their train crews learning alternative routes which I believe was partly down to the DfT requiring it.

Not sure what happened between GNER, NXEC and EC but it was encouraged to learn the different routes as I've seen traincrew from both Hull Trains and East Coast recently renew their route card to go via Hertford as I've countersigned their paperwork with the station stamp.

And, I have to say that some of the buses I've been on when the ECML has been closed for engineering work haven't been buses but very nice and comfortable coaches, with individual ventilation controls, pull down tables and lights - and even a toilet.

The annoyance is the extra time, but comfort has been fine.

You've been lucky then, I tend to avoid using any rail replacement service I find them to be quite the opposite of comfortable especially when the only service between Stevenage and Peterborough is a All Stations Stopper.

 

[stut]

You've been lucky then, I tend to avoid using any rail replacement service I find them to be quite the opposite of comfortable especially when the only service between Stevenage and Peterborough is a All Stations Stopper.

Quite. Last time I got a rail replacement (from Letchworth to Biggleswade, it was a cramped, ancient double decides with moss growing everywhere on the inside. Grim.

Have given up trying to get from Biggleswade to London this mooring. FCC appear to have given up the ghost on providing any useful information - the data given to Live Departures is mostly a work of fiction, train are running with delays of over an hour, their website contains only a list of cancelled trains and some rescheduled ones, but without actually telling you any intermediate stop timings or which of the other services are delayed.

Thankfully, I have an understanding client.

The ECML does seem to be in quite a state - problems at St Neots, Arlesey and Finsbury Park now...

 

[DarloRich]

Seems to be lots of delays this morning on the ECML. The 0746 GC from Northallerton to Kings Cross was (still is?) "delayed" this was due to a failed light loco near Stockton. As it was so cold i got the 0753 TPE to York. Only one XC unit passed me southbound and 1 XC and 2 EC (1 HST & 1 91 ) passed northbound all using the down slow. Nothing on the Down fast.

Whilst waiting for the TPE a southbound EC 91 went past not at full tilt. I saw the arcing before the train! It was a constant blue flash. Never seen arcing like it

There is no snow at all here but it is VERY cold and a very heavy frost.

 

[Max]

The 0700 HUL-KGX was delayed heavily due to a TPE ahead failing at Selby, and signalling problems at Temple Hirst meant the train was supposed to be diverted via Leeds. However, after problems began to develop on the line ahead, the train was revered at Hambleton West Junction and reversed down the ECML to Doncaster, bizarre! This all resulted in a 40 minute delay.

 

[jopsuk]

The ECML does seem to be in quite a state - problems at St Neots, Arlesey and Finsbury Park now...

And between Edinburgh and Berwick

 

[philjo]

It sounded like a HST that went through Letchworth yesterday evening - was this GC on diversion?

It is a pity that EC can't provide some limited service via the diversionary route - an occasional HST shuttle from Peterborough to KX or just to cambridge or Ely would suffice where FCC can run an onward service to London.

My train from Letchworth this morning was about 8 minutes late at Potters Bar - fuller than normal as a lot more passengers from Hitchin/Stevenage boarding due to ongoing problems on the peterborough route.
The pantographs of the 321s were sparking badly coming out of Letchworth sidings then ice/snow flying everywhere for the next mile or so!

 

[Aictos]

It sounded like a HST that went through Letchworth yesterday evening - was this GC on diversion?

It is a pity that EC can't provide some limited service via the diversionary route - an occasional HST shuttle from Peterborough to KX or just to cambridge or Ely would suffice where FCC can run an onward service to London.

My train from Letchworth this morning was about 8 minutes late at Potters Bar - fuller than normal as a lot more passengers from Hitchin/Stevenage boarding due to ongoing problems on the peterborough route.
The pantographs of the 321s were sparking badly coming out of Letchworth sidings then ice/snow flying everywhere for the next mile or so!

If East Coast were to run a shuttle service between Kings Cross and Peterborough calling at Stevenage and Cambridge only, I guess it would need at minimum 2 HSTs.

Alternatively, East Coast could use the 67s which is usually at Doncaster/Peterborough and Kings Cross to drag a 91 set between Peterborough and Ely alternatively which would mean hopefully a hourly service to and from Kings Cross/Stevenage.

 

[jon0844]

You've been lucky then, I tend to avoid using any rail replacement service I find them to be quite the opposite of comfortable especially when the only service between Stevenage and Peterborough is a All Stations Stopper.

I am talking about scheduled engineering work, so there was more time to plan.. and the coaches run to the same service pattern, which means avoiding the smaller stations - but a later coach will do that (and indeed the ones replacing any last train). Then, as I said, despite the comfort - it adds another hour to your journey home at least. I remember when Wagn laid on horrid old double deckers that were 20 years old, but haven't experienced them in recent years. Thank God!

And, for a bus replacement to somewhere like Peterborough from London - they'd surely need to run at least some of them as a fast or direct service? You have my sympathy if that isn't the case! (Although, I'm sure that given the problems yesterday people would prefer a few hours in a coach than standing in the cold).