East Coast envelope- misleading?

[jnjkerbin]

The other day I bought an Off Peak return from East Coast's website and got the tickets by post today. In the "wallet", if that's the correct term, it says to "be on the right train shown on your ticket". Now, as my ticket is not an advance I can travel anytime after whenever, and although I did get reservations, I can get a different train. Is this message not somewhat misleading to people unaware of this?

 

[NSEFAN]

The other day I bought an Off Peak return from East Coast's website and got the tickets by post today. In the "wallet", if that's the correct term, it says to "be on the right train shown on your ticket". Now, as my ticket is not an advance I can travel anytime after whenever, and although I did get reservations, I can get a different train. Is this message not somewhat misleading to people unaware of this?

Presumably it's just a generic message aimed at passengers with advance fares, but I suppose it's also somewhat applicable to those with walk-up fares which may have time restrictions.

 

[Zoidberg]

...

In the "wallet"... says to "be on the right train shown on your ticket". Now, as my ticket is not an advance I can travel anytime after whenever, and although I did get reservations, I can get a different train. Is this message not somewhat misleading to people unaware of this?

Maybe it's as simple as trying to get folk to pay attention to what they are doing, like get on the right train, e.g the one to London and not the one to Aberdeen.

In which case I don't think it's misleading.

 

[jnjkerbin]

Presumably it's just a generic message aimed at passengers with advance fares, but I suppose it's also somewhat applicable to those with walk-up fares which may have time restrictions.

I suppose so but generic messages aren't much good for people who aren't in that group. Seeing as you are advised at the time of booking AP tickets and it says Booked Train Only on the tickets, there isn't a need, in my opinion, to print it on the wallet, especially if it doesn't apply to everyone.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Maybe it's as simple as trying to get folk to pay attention to what they are doing, like get on the right train, e.g the one to London and not the one to Aberdeen.

If thats the case, surely that's just common sense!

Edit: It actually says "You MUST (my emphasis) be on the right train shown on your ticket"

 

[Masbroughlad]

If an open ticket then that in its own right tells you which trains you can travel on. So, I don't really think it is misleading.....

 

[jnjkerbin]

But as it says "train shown on your ticket", not "trains allowed by your ticket", it still (to me at least) seems to suggest you can ONLY catch the train(s) you have reserved seats on.

 

[alex17595]

I would class 'off peak' and 'anytime' as the train showed on your ticket.

 

[John @ home]

jnjkerbin, could you please tell us what the full instructions printed on the wallet say?

 

[jnjkerbin]

Of course:

"When travelling with us, please don't forget that you must...

• Have both your ticket and seat reservations with you at all times
• Leave plenty of time to board your service.
  Train doors shut up to 2 minutes before departure.
• Have a valid railcard if used for booking*
• Be on the right train shown on your ticket.*
  *Otherwise, you will have to buy a full price ticket."
  

My thought was that Joe Bloggs, on seeing the 4th point, may assume that as they have reservations for a leg of their journey on an open ticket, that they have to travel on that train as it is "shown on your ticket".

 

[A-driver]

Of course:


My thought was that Joe Bloggs, on seeing the 4th point, may assume that as they have reservations for a leg of their journey on an open ticket, that they have to travel on that train as it is "shown on your ticket".

Its not shown on the ticket, its shown on the reservation card which is not a ticket. And the reservation is only valid on that train so it still applies as you can't get on the next train and demand your booked seat.

Not misleading, and if it is its not going to lead to anyone being fined etc, the worst that can happen is that someone is extra cautious and dosnt change their travel plans!

 

[jnjkerbin]

Of course:


My thought was that Joe Bloggs, on seeing the 4th point, may assume that as they have reservations for a leg of their journey on an open ticket, that they have to travel on that train as it is "shown on your ticket".

Its not shown on the ticket, its shown on the reservation card which is not a ticket. And the reservation is only valid on that train so it still applies as you can't get on the next train and demand your booked seat.

Not misleading, and if it is its not going to lead to anyone being fined etc, the worst that can happen is that someone is extra cautious and dosnt change their travel plans!

Although the reservation card is not a ticket, my point is that Mr Bloggs may see it as a ticket.

And by misleading, I don't mean it will lead to a PF etc. but my point was that it may not be clear to some people. Anyway, that's what I think!

Example: Someone is in possession of a Off Peak return they have reservations on a train returning one week after they left. However, for some reason, they decide to return earlier or later than the day they had reserved seats. They may see this message and assume that they now have to buy a new ticket.

 

[A-driver]

Although the reservation card is not a ticket, my point is that Mr Bloggs may see it as a ticket.

And by misleading, I don't mean it will lead to a PF etc. but my point was that it may not be clear to some people. Anyway, that's what I think!

Example: Someone is in possession of a Off Peak return they have reservations on a train returning one week after they left. However, for some reason, they decide to return earlier or later than the day they had reserved seats. They may see this message and assume that they now have to buy a new ticket.

Or, more likely of they know nothing about tickets, they will take the tickets to a booking office and ask if it can be swapped for an earlier train where they will be told it can be used on any train.

I wouldn't loose any sleep over it though...

 

[jnjkerbin]

Or, more likely of they know nothing about tickets, they will take the tickets to a booking office and ask if it can be swapped for an earlier train where they will be told it can be used on any train.

Admittedly, yes. I think I'm just in a (very) knit picking mood today! Looking at it now, it seems a rather silly thing to start a thread on. :?

I wouldn't loose any sleep over it though...

Don't worry, I won't

 

[yorkie]

It's a tricky one. I've seen this before and did think the wording was a little odd.

As for "Be on the right train shown on your ticket" an East Coast guard on the Chieftain last year was most unhappy at a teenage passenger who travelled on the train shown on the ticket, saying he should have taken a more direct service instead, and tried to chuck him off at Perth. A complaint to East Coast did not even get a response. So it's OK them saying be on the train shown, but some of their staff don't like you getting the train shown!

If an open ticket then that in its own right tells you which trains you can travel on.

Depends on how you define "open", if you include (Super) Off Peak (Day) tickets, then the name doesn't tell you (though the National Rail website claims you can tell by the name - but we all know you can't).

So, I don't really think it is misleading.....

Perhaps not, though I think the wording could be improved.

 

[LexyBoy]

It wouldn't be so hard to add "If you hold a ticket marked Advance..." to the top of the list would it? (Also if we are picking nits then the asterisk should not apply to point 4, the cheapest walk-up ticket should be sold rather than the full Anytime).

Its not shown on the ticket, its shown on the reservation card which is not a ticket. And the reservation is only valid on that train so it still applies as you can't get on the next train and demand your booked seat.

Most people would consider it a ticket. And EC clearly consider it a ticket, as there is no train time shown on the "ticket" in the strict sense.

Agreed, people won't get fined because of it, but some people will buy new tickets believing they can't use it (I know people who have done this, it does happen), and others will perceive the ticket to be worse value than they would if they knew it was flexible.

I believe a sizeable proportion of those who buy tickets online simply select the trains they want and are unaware of whether they are buying Advance or walk-up tickets. This is why Crosscountry price most of their Advance fares such that a return journey costs ~£1 less than the walk-up return ticket, as booking engines will then select the AP tickets by default.

 

[A-driver]

As long as it dosnt lead to people getting fined there is no problem. Its not up to train operators to educate passengers on exact terms and conditions. Anyone can find them and read them before booking, if they don't and therefore arnt aware of what they are buying then more fool them.

 

[Sleepy]

It wouldn't be so hard to add "If you hold a ticket marked Advance..." to the top of the list would it? (Also if we are picking nits then the asterisk should not apply to point 4, the cheapest walk-up ticket should be sold rather than the full Anytime).



Most people would consider it a ticket. And EC clearly consider it a ticket, as there is no train time shown on the "ticket" in the strict sense.

Agreed, people won't get fined because of it, but some people will buy new tickets believing they can't use it (I know people who have done this, it does happen), and others will perceive the ticket to be worse value than they would if they knew it was flexible.

I believe a sizeable proportion of those who buy tickets online simply select the trains they want and are unaware of whether they are buying Advance or walk-up tickets. This is why Crosscountry price most of their Advance fares such that a return journey costs ~£1 less than the walk-up return ticket, as booking engines will then select the AP tickets by default.

Of course XC will be happy as they keep all the revenue on Advance tickets but may have to share it with other TOC on walk up tickets and can charge for new ticket if your plans change !!:roll: