East Coast- Better Run?

[Simon11]

Hi, If this has been covered else where could you point me there

Does anyone have any information regarding performance of East Coast before and after the goverment took over the the company.

Would be interesting to look at revenue, passenger numbers, profit/loss, Average minute late, customer complaints ect

 

[gordonthemoron]

in my experience (once a month), it's not much different

 

[Failed Unit]

The punctuality figures are on the website. Headline figures are worse as national express lack of maintenance on the fleet shows through and lots of problems with network rail.

 

[Bungleboo]

Hi, If this has been covered else where could you point me there

Does anyone have any information regarding performance of East Coast before and after the goverment took over the the company.

Would be interesting to look at revenue, passenger numbers, profit/loss, Average minute late, customer complaints ect

I can't say I've noticed any difference at all. Never had a bad journey on either National Express or East Coast.

 

[jon0844]

They are back to dumping sewage so I guess they aren't emptying the Mk4 retention tanks often enough again.

Sent from my MB525 using Tapatalk

 

[silentone]

They are back to dumping sewage so I guess they aren't emptying the Mk4 retention tanks often enough again.

Sent from my MB525 using Tapatalk

That story is in the press every few weeks, I'm sure it's just re-trundled for effect. I noticed it was in the paper that East Coast trains still dump sewage on the line. (HST's)

Depots are also under pressure to repair all the faults created by the snow so it could be that emptying tanks is last on the list.

 

[amcluesent]

I'd say it's better, but not yet to GNER standards. NXEC really hit rock bottom with their squirty milk sachets in 1st.

 

[Ticket Man]

I'd say it's better, but not yet to GNER standards. NXEC really hit rock bottom with their squirty milk sachets in 1st.

ah yes squirty milk, the great indicator by which every railways greatness is measured

 

[laird]

I'm not the most regular of East Cost Mainline travellers, thinking back to the end of BR it was a modern route so seemed pleasant, GNER came along and seemed to be a general improvement but I never felt they brought much by way of innovation in comparison to the other lines.
Latterly came NXEC which I thought might bring about a change, of course it was too short lived really to see how having delayed recovery would come about, and finally East Coast. My experiences so far have been mixed, if I look at the interior state of the trains I'd expect the train to be rather tired and in need of maintenance. Whether I just pick the wrong trains I'm not sure but even simple things like carriage labels are missing which when combined with missing carriages really does make for a confusing experience for the less frequent traveller.
In January it seemed set swaps HST to Electra and vice versa seemed common but in general time keeping was there or thereabouts.
It will be interesting to see what the new catering offer is in First Class.

It would be nice to think that East Coast can get things to a high point ahead of the tendering process starting later this year perhaps that could make for a positive change - wouldn't it be nice to see new trains, better passenger service and all those good things under the new operator.
I'm mindful that whichever operator gets the new long franchise will be getting HSTs which while modernised are overdue for replacement and Electras which should be past their 25 year design life during the new franchise?



Oh and I think I've just about learnt how to open the dangerously squirty milk sachets (more like tubes really), I guess they are more environmentally friendly but it took many attempts to learn a technique that seems to work for me. That said about 1 in 4 tubes doesn't seem to tear open as expected leaving that awkward gamble as to how to get the milk into the cup without covering the table or oneself! If anyone does have a method for sorting out that 1 in 4 do please share!

 

[ainsworth74]

Electras which should be past their 25 year design life during the new franchise?

Since when have the IC225s only had 25 years as they're design life? That seems really short even a DMU would be expected last at least that long, let alone an AC loco and coaching stock.

 

[laird]

25 years is a general rule of thumb, after that time it is normal to expect a very significant cost to refurbish, many other industries would simply replace at that point.
It is perhaps a shame that the rail industry hasn't followed their example in that if we had a rolling programme to replace stock at its 25 year point it would mean budgeting would be easier and we wouldn't have the situation where the capital purchase of DMUs which would have been amortized and by now written off ending up being rented to train operating companies at the inflated rates they now attract.

Taking the previous generation of similar carriages (Mark 4 to Mark 3a) these have after 25 years had the expensive refurbishment where necessary and now are relegated to a second tier of duties pending ultimate retirement. Interestingly the 25 year refurbishment could be the time to introduce the tilt capability to the Mark 4 stock which the bodyshell profile permitted. That said perhaps it would be better for the Mark 4 stock to cascade down and new stock be procured for what will by then be a very overcrowded East Coast.

This year would be year to refurbish stock from 1986 so perhaps we will see something happen soon with more of the DMUs.

 

[90019]

ah yes squirty milk, the great indicator by which every railways greatness is measured

To be fair, it's usually the crisps that are used as a measure

 

[MCR247]

25 years is a general rule of thumb, after that time it is normal to expect a very significant cost to refurbish, many other industries would simply replace at that point.
It is perhaps a shame that the rail industry hasn't followed their example in that if we had a rolling programme to replace stock at its 25 year point it would mean budgeting would be easier and we wouldn't have the situation where the capital purchase of DMUs which would have been amortized and by now written off ending up being rented to train operating companies at the inflated rates they now attract.

Taking the previous generation of similar carriages (Mark 4 to Mark 3a) these have after 25 years had the expensive refurbishment where necessary and now are relegated to a second tier of duties pending ultimate retirement. Interestingly the 25 year refurbishment could be the time to introduce the tilt capability to the Mark 4 stock which the bodyshell profile permitted. That said perhaps it would be better for the Mark 4 stock to cascade down and new stock be procured for what will by then be a very overcrowded East Coast.

This year would be year to refurbish stock from 1986 so perhaps we will see something happen soon with more of the DMUs.

They were refurbished under GNER (MK4s) and NXEC (mk3s)

Tilting will not work after the GNER refurb

 

[Failed Unit]

They were refurbished under GNER (MK4s) and NXEC (mk3s)

Tilting will not work after the GNER refurb

I for on am very happy to have the best quality inter-city stock in the uk on my patch. It may be old but as above the refurb has made it great again. Let Virgin keep the cramped voyagers and pendos!

 

[laird]

MCR247, I wasn't really thinking of the light refurbishment but effectively a strip back to the bodyshell allowing all the mechanical, plumbing and electronics to be replaced, cable looms and so forth. Much like we saw with the Grand Central/WSMR mark 3a refurbishments or even the engine replacement programme for the class 43s.
A good number of the suppliers that originally provided the equipment for the 225 must now have ceased production of the sub-components as obsolesence impacts apply.

Any idea what GNER did to prevent the tilt from ever being installed? I thought the original design was just body shaping to permit retro-fit of tilt if it was wanted later? Could it be undone?
Perhaps if tilt was to come back as an idea for the ECML we might even see Cross Country tempted into re-enabling their super voyager sets.

 

[asylumxl]

I'd have imagined the lack of tilt was more down to cost of installing the relevant infrastructure, though I'm only guessing. It also seems a little unnecessary on the ECML as it has many 125mph sections anyway.

 

[DarloRich]

Personally I think EC are one of the better operators, perhaps because they take me home on decent trains. I would rank the ECML operators as follows:

GNER
EC
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NX

The good brand building/goodwill work done by GNER was destroyed very quickly when NX took over the franchise. It was apparent quite quickly they would simply try to screw as much as they could out of the assets. Maintenance standards/intervals, which GNER always seemed to take very seriously quickly plummeted. The good quality staff employed by GNER seemed very quickly to turn into a demoralised put upon workforce who did not seem to be happy in their work. Different management styles I suppose. I will let others judge what worked best. It is amazing how a good quality service became a service beset with problems in a short space of time!

EC have tried to address these problems and are starting to get a grip on things,. Punctuality and performance should improve when the maintenance back log is addressed. Staff morale seems to be going up a bit despite the job cuts. But as for that livery :roll::roll::roll:

 

[Failed Unit]

East coasts mallard refurb on the mk4s was a strip back to the metal and rebuild.

 

[MCR247]

Any idea what GNER did to prevent the tilt from ever being installed? I thought the original design was just body shaping to permit retro-fit of tilt if it was wanted later? Could it be undone?
Perhaps if tilt was to come back as an idea for the ECML we might even see Cross Country tempted into re-enabling their super voyager sets.

They put something else in the space for tilt equipment IIRC

 

[Pumbaa]

They put something else in the space for tilt equipment IIRC

For the 91s yes. The MK4s in theory could be retrospectively could be made to tilt again, but solid bars have been welded into place. This would need to be undone, but could be done cheaply and easily. Certainly moreso than the 91s; the rebuild made them work so much better. Undoing this work would have a detrimental effect on performance.

This is for laird btw, I was elaborating MCR247s point

 

[jopsuk]

The loco doesn't need to tilt though- the passive-tilting Talgo stock is hauled by normal locos, for example. Might need some sort of coupler modification? If the lateral forces through the corners are too much for the drivers, how about a racing-car style harness?