East Anglia Bus Scene

[greenline712]

£1,800 a week for a one bus operation in Sudbury seems very excessive

This route 49 in Sudbury works )on weekdays) from 0900-1430 and again from 1710 to 1850. That's around 7 hours, plus a dead run to/from the garage; plus start/finish time. Let's say 8 hours driver time.
If the hourly rate is around £15 per hour, and we add 25% for employment costs, pension contributions and an element for holiday cover (25 days per year), that would soon amount to £20 per hour if not more.
£20 per hour with 8 hours per day is £160 per day, and over a full year is around £40k pa, or around £960* per week.
That's only staff costs, mind you . . . there's still mileage costs, engineering costs, a proportion of overheads for the garage; plus all sorts of ancillary costs . . . and I'm assuming that the vehicle is paid for on the school contract inevitably associated with this route.
And, don't forget, a little bit of profit . . . as a former Commercial Director of mine once said "I'm no' a charity . . . there has to be a bit of profit to justify my time!"

£1,800 per week looks to be quite a good deal, actually!! If it wasn't built around a school contract, it'd be around £2,500 per week!!

*: edited to recalculate for a 6-day week.

 

[JKP]

There is also a journey before the bus goes onto schools, so it is an even greater bargain!

 

[Wawanesa]

This route 49 in Sudbury works )on weekdays) from 0900-1430 and again from 1710 to 1850. That's around 7 hours, plus a dead run to/from the garage; plus start/finish time. Let's say 8 hours driver time.
If the hourly rate is around £15 per hour, and we add 25% for employment costs, pension contributions and an element for holiday cover (25 days per year), that would soon amount to £20 per hour if not more.
£20 per hour with 8 hours per day is £160 per day, and over a full year is around £40k pa, or around £960* per week.
That's only staff costs, mind you . . . there's still mileage costs, engineering costs, a proportion of overheads for the garage; plus all sorts of ancillary costs . . . and I'm assuming that the vehicle is paid for on the school contract inevitably associated with this route.
And, don't forget, a little bit of profit . . . as a former Commercial Director of mine once said "I'm no' a charity . . . there has to be a bit of profit to justify my time!"

£1,800 per week looks to be quite a good deal, actually!! If it wasn't built around a school contract, it'd be around £2,500 per week!!

*: edited to recalculate for a 6-day week.

The 49 is a minibus operated route so costs will be correspondingly lower. The depot is no more than five minutes from either end of the service. From the Acton Road end of the route it serves new housing development, then goes via Tescos on the bypass to older, difficult to access, housing before coming out on to Melford Road to reach the town centre. The latter section has been served by Chambers for over a hundred years but is also covered by Felix of Long Melford who may not be best pleased by the introduction of the route.

 

[greenline712]

The 49 is a minibus operated route so costs will be correspondingly lower. The depot is no more than five minutes from either end of the service. From the Acton Road end of the route it serves new housing development, then goes via Tescos on the bypass to older, difficult to access, housing before coming out on to Melford Road to reach the town centre. The latter section has been served by Chambers for over a hundred years but is also covered by Felix of Long Melford who may not be best pleased by the introduction of the route.

Even if it is a minibus route, the driver costs will still be the same . . . the days of "minibus; mini driver; mini wage" are thankfully long gone.

A minibus still has to be low-floor and fully accessible . . . it's not like the old days, when a Mercedez 608 and 16 seats could be had for a song. The only saving will be on fuel, but 6-8 MPG versus 14-16 MPG won't save that much on the overall cost. £1,800 x 52 weeks is around £94k . . . a bargain!!

 

[Jim James]

Even if it is a minibus route, the driver costs will still be the same . . . the days of "minibus; mini driver; mini wage" are thankfully long gone.

A minibus still has to be low-floor and fully accessible . . . it's not like the old days, when a Mercedez 608 and 16 seats could be had for a song. The only saving will be on fuel, but 6-8 MPG versus 14-16 MPG won't save that much on the overall cost. £1,800 x 52 weeks is around £94k . . . a bargain!!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Sep 2025 ==

I am afraid your argument does not stack up at all. Felix operate a similar route commercially even ignoring that there are extra journeys on service 50 which uses full size buses and that's only £470 a week so he cost for the 49 makes no sense

 

[F Great Eastern]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Sep 2025 ==

I am afraid your argument does not stack up at all. Felix operate a similar route commercially even ignoring that there are extra journeys on service 50 which uses full size buses and that's only £470 a week so he cost for the 49 makes no sense

The 50 is getting £1,785 subsidy a week from SCC already, the £469 per week is a BSIP uplift on top of that for the extra Sunday services.

When Beestons were doing the 90 Sudbury to Hadleigh route prior to Chambers taking it over in June 2024 they were doing it for £250 a week.

Incidentally one of the said minibuses were on the 50 tonight and one was seen last week as well on the same route.

 

[Jim James]

The 50 is getting £1,785 subsidy a week from SCC already, the £469 per week is a BSIP uplift on top of that for the extra Sunday services.

When Beestons were doing the 90 Sudbury to Hadleigh route prior to Chambers taking it over in June 2024 they were doing it for £250 a week.

Incidentally one of the said minibuses were on the 50 tonight and one was seen last week as well on the same route.

But they also all but doubled the frequency and BSIP includes a Sundays service to Ipswich

 

[F Great Eastern]

But they also all but doubled the frequency and BSIP includes a Sundays service to Ipswich

When Beestons gave it up in July 2024 and it went to Chambers the subsidy did increase a fair bit.

According to SCC the current contract for the 50 (former 90) began in July 2025 so I suspect there was a further increase there for the extra frequency during the week with the BSIP funding paying exclusively for the Sunday services.

 

[Jim James]

When Beestons gave it up in July 2024 and it went to Chambers the subsidy did increase a fair bit.

According to SCC the current contract for the 50 (former 90) began in July 2025 so I suspect there was a further increase there for the extra frequency during the week with the BSIP funding paying exclusively for the Sunday services.

The increase in frequency and Sunday service was BSIP funded

A big problem I suspect is lack of competition with only what was GoAhead really in the area

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Oct 2025 ==

Beestons appear to have withdrawn the 84C although Suffolk onboard still shows it

 

[F Great Eastern]

The increase in frequency and Sunday service was BSIP funded

A big problem I suspect is lack of competition with only what was GoAhead really in the area

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Oct 2025 ==

Beestons appear to have withdrawn the 84C although Suffolk onboard still shows it

Chambers have said BSIP funding is for Sundays only and the timetable PDF also says this. The extra frequency in week is via SCC funding.

Beestons have renamed the 84C the 43C to go along with the Chambers change of the 84 to the 43. It's now also a closed door school service rather than a public route.

Do we know what is happening with the Suffolk Rural collega routes? Beestons appear to be operating the RC5 now despite the Suffolk Rural site saying its Chambers.

 

[Jim James]

Chambers have said BSIP funding is for Sundays only and the timetable PDF also says this. The extra frequency in week is via SCC funding.

Beestons have renamed the 84C the 43C to go along with the Chambers change of the 84 to the 43. It's now also a closed door school service rather than a public route.

Do we know what is happening with the Suffolk Rural collega routes? Beestons appear to be operating the RC5 now despite the Suffolk Rural site saying its Chambers.

The SCC minutes show the weekday frequency improvement and Sunday service as BSIP funded

 

[Edvid]

Konectbus Norfolk will adopt Tap On Tap Off ticketing on 30 November.

Tap on, Tap off

NEW! From Sunday 30th November 2025, travelling on Konectbus has become easier and smarter than ever with the launch of Tap On, Tap Off.

www.konectbus.co.uk

It's quite the substantive page. It even includes a detailed explanation of how deferred authorisation works.

 

[chubs]

Konectbus Norfolk will adopt Tap On Tap Off ticketing on 30 November.

Tap on, Tap off

NEW! From Sunday 30th November 2025, travelling on Konectbus has become easier and smarter than ever with the launch of Tap On, Tap Off.

www.konectbus.co.uk

It's quite the substantive page. It even includes a detailed explanation of how deferred authorisation works.

Interesting! It's like being in The Netherlands 20 years ago.

Konect and First here have had the additional card reader since they adopted ticketer but it's been marked out of use, wonder if First will follow suit.

 

[Camb]

Interesting! It's like being in The Netherlands 20 years ago.

Konect and First here have had the additional card reader since they adopted ticketer but it's been marked out of use, wonder if First will follow suit.

I believe this is part of the Norfolk County Council BSIP, should be coming to all major operators in the county, as you say it’s about time!

 

[chubs]

Tap On Tap Off

How to Tap On Tap Off You can soon Tap On Tap Off when buying adult fares across Norfolk & Suffolk.

www.firstbus.co.uk

As predicted by Camb!

 

[Wawanesa]

A colleague tried First's Tap On Tap Off this week. Sadly her bank account was debited with £9 rather than £3 so she is now making sure that she has a ready supply of £1 coins to pay with in future.

 

[dk1]

A colleague tried First's Tap On Tap Off this week. Sadly her bank account was debited with £9 rather than £3 so she is now making sure that she has a ready supply of £1 coins to pay with in future.

Oh that’s not good. It should remember and cap accordingly if the same card/account is used.

 

[65477]

Apart from a short segment on ITV local news, I have seen nothing about the Prime Minister's visit to First Buses in Norfolk yesterday (Thursday 11th). An internet search this morning seems to indicate I was a non stop.

Any more details about the visit and the announcement and grants?

 

[Cesarcollie]

Apart from a short segment on ITV local news, I have seen nothing about the Prime Minister's visit to First Buses in Norfolk yesterday (Thursday 11th). An internet search this morning seems to indicate I was a non stop.

Any more details about the visit and the announcement and grants?

I don’t believe anything new was announced. As is often the case, this was a recycling of old news!

 

[Flange Squeal]

I note Cambridge area stuff has appeared in this thread before, so I thought this might be the right place to post a teaser Whippet Coaches have put on their Facebook page.

It shows a computer generated image of a blue Neoplan coach with the wording ‘Blue Arrow X1 coming soon’ and caption ‘Watch this space’, but no further information.

The post can be viewed at this link: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/17oEpmdswx/

 

[Teds]

I note Cambridge area stuff has appeared in this thread before, so I thought this might be the right place to post a teaser Whippet Coaches have put on their Facebook page.

It shows a computer generated image of a blue Neoplan coach with the wording ‘Blue Arrow X1 coming soon’ and caption ‘Watch this space’, but no further information.

The post can be viewed at this link: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/17oEpmdswx/

That post seem to have disappeared from Facebook. Interesting idea to use the coach that they still own. It appeared on the Hunstanton summer service last year.

 

[Flange Squeal]

That post seem to have disappeared from Facebook. Interesting idea to use the coach that still own. It appeared on the Hunstanton summer service last year.

It still seems to be working for me. I've attached a screenshot...


(Picture shows a computer generated image of a blue Neoplan coach with the wording ‘Blue Arrow X1 coming soon’ and caption ‘Watch this space’, but no further information)

 

[buslad1988]

That’s the last of the Citaro’s on the way out at Ipswich Buses…

BF65 HVU - The Bus Shop

This former municipal bus company operated Mercedes Citaro vehicle has been sold to it’s new owner via The Bus Shop on behalf of Ipswich Buses Limited. If you have surplus or redundant fleet, The Bus Shop can help you to sell it – find out more by contacting us today, or by completing a List

the-bus-shop.co.uk

Do we have any theories on what’s come this year? More second hand E200MMC/E400MMC’s? The demise of the Omnidekkas? Could we finally see a new livery/branding?

 

[_sSamuel]

That’s the last of the Citaro’s on the way out at Ipswich Buses…

BF65 HVU - The Bus Shop

This former municipal bus company operated Mercedes Citaro vehicle has been sold to it’s new owner via The Bus Shop on behalf of Ipswich Buses Limited. If you have surplus or redundant fleet, The Bus Shop can help you to sell it – find out more by contacting us today, or by completing a List

the-bus-shop.co.uk

Do we have any theories on what’s come this year? More second hand E200MMC/E400MMC’s? The demise of the Omnidekkas? Could we finally see a new livery/branding?

Ipswich Buses are in an interesting situation at the moment, from my perspective.

With devolution on the horizon, Ipswich Borough Council will likely be no more, and this new 'combined authority' will now own the operator. Will this new combined authority want the burden of owning such a business? Would they rather sell the business? Would they want to invest in the business and grow it to improve local bus services? Would they want to go down the new trend of franchising?

With so much uncertainty I think Ipswich Buses are currently taking a wise, albeit boring for us enthusiasts, approach of maintaining their current network, which does provide a decent level of service from my own experiences.

It's interesting to see First in Ipswich focusing their operations around their One Sixth Form bus services, and SCC contracts/BSIP funded routes nowadays, which has resulted in commerical routes seeing frequency cuts at peak times. Whilst this results in a poorer service offering for customers, I do understand that there is a business to be ran here, and these contracts offer much more security and guaranteed income.

 

[Omnidekkalover]

And they have an update on this Blue Arrow service on their website

Blue Arrow X1

www.whippetbus.co.uk

 

[paulprentice]

Ipswich Buses are in an interesting situation at the moment, from my perspective. With devolution on the horizon, Ipswich Borough Council will likely be no more, and this new 'combined authority' will now own the operator. Will this new combined authority want the burden of owning such a business? Would they rather sell the business? Would they want to invest in the business and grow it to improve local bus services? Would they want to go down the new trend of franchising? With so much uncertainty I think Ipswich Buses are currently taking a wise, albeit boring for us enthusiasts, approach of maintaining their current network, which does provide a decent level of service from my own experiences. It's interesting to see First in Ipswich focusing their operations around their One Sixth Form bus services, and SCC contracts/BSIP funded routes nowadays, which has resulted in commerical routes seeing frequency cuts at peak times. Whilst this results in a poorer service offering for customers, I do understand that there is a business to be ran here, and these contracts offer much more security and guaranteed income.

I agree it is wise but boring! The thing I'm not clear about is whether Ipswich Buses ends up under the auspices of a Suffolk/Norfolk Mayor and a Mayoral Strategic Authority (MSA) potentially headquartered some way from Ipswich, or if it ends up under a unitary authority of some sort - a 'Greater Ipswich' or some other carving up of the authorities in Suffolk. Suffolk County Council also won't exist under the Local Government Reorganisation (LGR), which is happening everywhere in England right now.
A future version of Ipswich Buses could extend much further as a commercial operator that's still publicly-owned or could simply be a publicly-owned operator that bids for contracts under a bus franchising scheme in Suffolk and Norfolk. And it all depends on the political flavour of the administration too.

 

[buslad1988]

I agree it is wise but boring! The thing I'm not clear about is whether Ipswich Buses ends up under the auspices of a Suffolk/Norfolk Mayor and a Mayoral Strategic Authority (MSA) potentially headquartered some way from Ipswich, or if it ends up under a unitary authority of some sort - a 'Greater Ipswich' or some other carving up of the authorities in Suffolk. Suffolk County Council also won't exist under the Local Government Reorganisation (LGR), which is happening everywhere in England right now.
A future version of Ipswich Buses could extend much further as a commercial operator that's still publicly-owned or could simply be a publicly-owned operator that bids for contracts under a bus franchising scheme in Suffolk and Norfolk. And it all depends on the political flavour of the administration too.

The whole mayoral situation appears to have been knocked back until 2028 now - which is frustrating. As it leaves Ipswich Buses in limbo. None of the mayoral candidates have mentioned buses; in Norfolk they have a decent relationship between the authority and operators anyway. There’s no appetite for franchising, it’s too rural and the cost too high.

I can see Ipswich Buses just remaining as it is meantime with a small investment in second hand stock to replace the eldest enviros, deckers and tempos? The age profile is certainly creeping up. Also expect white to probably stay! Maybe Dan Bassett will get fed up and leave; who could blame him when he hasn’t got any freedom to run the business as he wants - no doubt Martijn Gilbert could tempt him over to Arriva.

Transport Made Simple would likely jump at the chance to snap them up but politically it’s a minefield to even contemplate selling it!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jan 2026 ==

New garage proposed in Ipswich for the Sizewell fleet.

Hundreds of jobs to be created as plans put forward for new Ipswich bus depot

Hundreds of jobs are set to be created through the construction of a major new bus depot in Ipswich.

www.ipswichstar.co.uk

It does seem fairly large in size (150 allocation) - could they be utilising this site to eventually replace First’s premises by the docks? That’s a prime site to sell to developers.

It would provide more modern facilities, especially for electric upgrades and would remove the height issues for deckers. It’s also very well positioned for First’s core network and with easy access to the A14.

 

[_sSamuel]

As mentioned previously, Norfolk is clearly succeeding whilst Suffolk is failing, as now evidenced in their recent bus patronage figures...

Norfolk County Council has hailed the success of its Bus Service Improvement Plan (BSIP) after its own figures revealed bus patronage in the county rose to 14% higher than prepandemic levels.
Source: https://www.route-one.net/news/norfolk-bsip-cites-14-bus-patronage-rise-versus-pre-covid/

This clearly demonstrates that when a council has a strong (and committed!) team behind its BSIP, it can lead to success even in rural areas, where the local train services is strong. Just puts Suffolk to shame to say the least, the combined authority and its mayor cannot come soon enough from my perspective...

 

[Man of Kent]

As mentioned previously, Norfolk is clearly succeeding whilst Suffolk is failing, as now evidenced in their recent bus patronage figures...

This clearly demonstrates that when a council has a strong (and committed!) team behind its BSIP, it can lead to success even in rural areas, where the local train services is strong. Just puts Suffolk to shame to say the least, the combined authority and its mayor cannot come soon enough from my perspective...

Or does it demonstrate that if one authority gets £49m to spend over 3 years, while the other gets £3.8m over two years, there are different outcomes?
(Figures based on BSIP allocations 2022/23 to 2024/25).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Or does it demonstrate that if one authority gets £49m to spend over 3 years, while the other gets £3.8m over two years, there are different outcomes?
(Figures based on BSIP allocations 2022/23 to 2024/25).

Both things can be true

Having the money definitely helps but they’re very savvy and focused in Norfolk (and that may have influenced the strength and success of their bid).