Easiest/Hardest TOCs to Join

[Up_Tilt_390]

This is a question of interest on my half, but I suppose in future some of the answers will also allow other people to turn here and see which of their local TOCs may be the best path for them to take when getting into the railway industry. Basically, I'm just hoping to find out what you all find to be the easiest and hardest Train Operating Companies to get employed into, and possibly why. This can be based either on your own personal knowledge or experience with the industry recruitment.

If it is harder to get in with some roles than others (ie. easier to become CSA with one but easier to get guard job with others), then please include these in your answers. It might be hard to understand the latter point so forgive me, I'm not the most fluent in structuring sentences. I would like to make note though that while open-access operators can be included, I ask that you focus predominantly on the franchised operators. I mean we all know Eurostar is hard to get into just based on qualifications.

 

[Atloat]

So many different viiw points. Getting through the assessments dosent always guarantee a job. Interviewers although following a set of questions bring their own personal judgments into the hiring & decision making process. HR departments are important because they decide who will be given a chance. I was lucky as I had a few applications in at the same time. I passed he assessments with a TOC which required an enhanced pass than I asked the other TOC’s to change the status of my application as I was now ready to go to the DMI.
With regards to the interview. Be prepared. Know everything you can know about the company. Do your best while answering the questions to let your answers reflect the desired qualities the TOC is looking for ( written in the original job advert or in the application form link) (make a copy at the time you read it as it may not be accessible later) try and let your personality come across in the interview. You will often be interviewed by the driver manager- your direct line manager. At the end of the day he wants to employ someone who is not going to make his job harder than it can be. So someone responsible and can take responsibility, able to focus ect, ect ...... pleasant to be around, can have a laugh, good positive attitude to adversity and bad attitudes would be some of the desirable attitudes to have when it comes to choosing what kind of player you would want in your team.
So effort, perseverance and being prepared. I personally don’t think you need to get a foot in with a non driver job. However it would be nice if in your interview you can demonstraight that you have done a safety critical job- or have the skillset to do a safety critical job. You have been in an emergency situation and can use critical thinking with a cool head. Also anything to show you can focus for extended periods of time. Good luck

 

[craigybagel]

It really depends on the job. For example, Virgin West Coast employ a vast amount of on board and station staff, and recruitment takes place regularly for these roles. What's more, the background requirements don't seem to be particularly onerous (I got in with only 5 months experience in a customer service job - what really counted at Virgin then at least was personality). If you want a TM job however, they only rarely recruit externally - and even internally threaded competing is fierce. For driving positions, they've run 2 trainee courses in the last decade, and those were internal only - so unless you're qualified if you want to enter Virgin as a trainee driver, you're in for a long wait.

There are other companies who don't recruit externally for certain roles, usually driving. XC notoriously never take on trainee drivers, either internally or externally - but they do at least take on trainee TMs/Senior Conductors and they come from both internal and external sources. Merseyrail trainee drivers seem to be exclusively by way of internal promotion - and AFAIK they don't even take on qualified external drivers. Lately EMT has only been recruiting externally for depot drivers - trainee mainline drivers are recruited from existing depot drivers, and I believe the former Great Eastern side of Greater Anglia has been doing something similar for years.

So it really depends on what role you're Stree, all the different companies have duringdif policies, and that's before you get into variables like location (not as much competition for jobs in Fort William as there are in the big cities).

 

[Up_Tilt_390]

It really depends on the job. For example, Virgin West Coast employ a vast amount of on board and station staff, and recruitment takes place regularly for these roles. What's more, the background requirements don't seem to be particularly onerous (I got in with only 5 months experience in a customer service job - what really counted at Virgin then at least was personality). If you want a TM job however, they only rarely recruit externally - and even internally threaded competing is fierce. For driving positions, they've run 2 trainee courses in the last decade, and those were internal only - so unless you're qualified if you want to enter Virgin as a trainee driver, you're in for a long wait.

There are other companies who don't recruit externally for certain roles, usually driving. XC notoriously never take on trainee drivers, either internally or externally - but they do at least take on trainee TMs/Senior Conductors and they come from both internal and external sources. Merseyrail trainee drivers seem to be exclusively by way of internal promotion - and AFAIK they don't even take on qualified external drivers. Lately EMT has only been recruiting externally for depot drivers - trainee mainline drivers are recruited from existing depot drivers, and I believe the former Great Eastern side of Greater Anglia has been doing something similar for years.

So it really depends on what role you're Stree, all the different companies have duringdif policies, and that's before you get into variables like location (not as much competition for jobs in Fort William as there are in the big cities).

A very good post indeed. So it's true then that it's easier to get into some than others, and that some roles are easier to obtain with certain companies it seems.

 

[NoOnesFool]

In my experience, First Group companies are harder to apply for, I've never made it to an interview stage with them. I think a lot of it has to do with the recruitment team's personal opinion though. With any job, not just railway jobs, you will find that some people are willing to give less experienced people a chance, and some absolutely will not, possibly for an easier life. Going back to your question though, you wouldn't really expect to become a Guard/TM/SC straight away, you'd normally have to apply for a role such as a Customer Host, CSA or CSO and work your way up.

 

[Intermodal]

For driving positions, they've run 2 trainee courses in the last decade, and those were internal only - so unless you're qualified if you want to enter Virgin as a trainee driver, you're in for a long wait.

How do trainee driver courses work? Does each TOC have their own school and teaching staff, or are you shipped off to one of several national centres contracted out by a TOC/TOCs?

 

[Bennski]

How do trainee driver courses work? Does each TOC have their own school and teaching staff, or are you shipped off to one of several national centres contracted out by a TOC/TOCs?

When I went to the assessment centre for the Virgin Trainee position it was at their talent academy in Crewe and was being run by the OPC. The OPC did the assessments and the Virgin managers did the interviews. I think most TOC's hire external examining organisations to-do the assessments but the interviews are done by members of management I believe. Once through Virgin have their own driver trainers who you shadow and stay with for your entire training process.

 

[Johncleesefan]

The trainee driver courses though, are ran by the toc with a driver trainer employed by the toc training the trainees. All ran in house

 

[the_wanderer]

Interesting to see that all the opinions posted above focus solely around crew on trains. Whilst on-board catering / CSA / trainee conductor posititions are probably the best entry level options for most, bear in mind there are FAR more jobs and careers across the rail industry than those mentioned above. Stations, Operations/Control, Finance, IT, Customer Services, Procurement, HR, Commercial, Marketing, Performance, Planning... many of these offer 'introductory' roles of some sort, and if you're having no joy getting 'on board' via the on-board route, can be a good solid foot-in-the-door!

 

[Bennski]

Interesting to see that all the opinions posted above focus solely around crew on trains. Whilst on-board catering / CSA / trainee conductor posititions are probably the best entry level options for most, bear in mind there are FAR more jobs and careers across the rail industry than those mentioned above. Stations, Operations/Control, Finance, IT, Customer Services, Procurement, HR, Commercial, Marketing, Performance, Planning... many of these offer 'introductory' roles of some sort, and if you're having no joy getting 'on board' via the on-board route, can be a good solid foot-in-the-door!

In fairness the question was about what was the hardest TOC`s to join. This didn't relate to a specific role exactly and many people on here are aspiring for that driver role and I'm sure we all know that it's unlikely that you can just walk into a driver position via an external application (Granted there are exceptions ). For me at least im trying to apply to any/all positions on the railway which best reflects my experience and skills. I can't speak for everyone but I'm sure we all know that the best way to get a driver position is working your way up internally. Nevertheless I can see where your coming from and when I first started looking I didn't even think about looking for any other roles so I'm sure this may have opened someone's eyes.

 

[Spankthemonkey]

I think there is a geographical element to it. For TOCs like GWR and XC for example, I am lead to believe a guards role in a location with high living costs (eg Reading) will attract far fewer applicants than when advertised in places like Exeter or Leeds where the salary is likely to seem far more appealing.

 

[baz962]

As far as I know , there are many external's taking up trainee positions. At my toc , almost all the trainee's this year (driver's) were external.

 

[Greaseball3220]

As anybody Irish or of Irish heritage knows Irish Rail are something else as regards nepotism, to get into there you need to be conceived via a kneetrembler behind the Loco Shed at Inchicore Works, and pass a DNA test to prove it. (only mild exaggeration as well )

 

[387star]

Given train drivers wages are similar whether you work in London or Penzance it makes you wonder why anyone without ties would stay at a London depor for long. Higher turnover reflects this

Also some depots are dead mans allegedly

 

[craigybagel]

As anybody Irish or of Irish heritage knows Irish Rail are something else as regards nepotism, to get into there you need to be conceived via a kneetrembler behind the Loco Shed at Inchicore Works, and pass a DNA test to prove it. (only mild exaggeration as well )

Indeed - not to mention the several years recruitment ban within the public sector! This has of course since ended but too late for a lot of us who would have rather worked on the railways in Ireland than in the UK.

On the other hand, pay and T&C's are terrible over there in comparison.