Earlsfield to Fareham - Super Off Peak Validity

[ctom_s]

Hi,

I semi regularly do this journey, however I'm a bit confused as to the validity of the super off-peak tickets sold (specifically the earlsfield to Fareham super off peak ticket - single or period return, not super off peak tickets in general on SWR).

Generally the forum website ticket site rarely shows this ticket at all when you try and plan this journey. However with some advanced options I got the below screenshot.

Journey 1 is via Woking and Havant, 2&3 are similar and they're basically a change at Woking/close by onto a Portsmouth via Basingstoke train. Journey 4 is via Woking and Fratton and Journey 5 is changing at Surbiton and Woking onto a Portsmouth via Basingstoke.

My question is, there are no tickets for journeys 2,3 and 5. So does that mean that the super off peak isn't valid via Basingstoke at all? If so I believe this didn't used to be the case (and I've never been challenged about it on train) so has it changed?

Secondly, I excluded journeys via Clapham Junction in the screenshot, but the super off-peak only seems to exclude going via London on the ticket which Clapham is not, so is this ticket valid to change at Clapham Junction too? I believe the answer is no, but does it say this anywhere?

I checked BRfares but haven't really found any answers, are there any better websites around?

 

[jfollows]

Restriction code UP
For me, amusingly, I lived in Earlsfield in 1983-4 and Fareham in 1985.

Outward Travel​
Restriction Code: UP Restricted Days: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday Monday - Saturday, including public holidays​
Not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:29 and before 12:01. Additionally, not valid if boarding at the following stations: Blackfriars: after 15:59 and before 19:01 Cannon Street: after 15:59 and before 19:01 Charing Cross: after 15:59 and before 19:01 City Thameslink: after 15:59 and before 19:01 Clapham Junction: after 15:59 and before 19:10 London Bridge: after 15:59 and before 19:01 Paddington: after 15:59 and before 19:01 Vauxhall: after 15:59 and before 19:05 Victoria: after 15:59 and before 19:01 Waterloo: after 15:59 and before 19:01 Waterloo East: after 15:59 and before 19:01 Not valid on CrossCountry services timed to depart after 04:29 and before 13:01
Not valid on trains timed to arrive London Terminals after 04:29 and before 14:01

Earlesfield-Fareham is allowed on routes PD and PU at https://rgpp.iblocks.co.uk/maps which don’t include Eastleigh for some reason.

 

[ctom_s]

Thanks jfollows, but this is my point that the above you posted mentions neither via Basingstoke or Clapham Junction (though I admit my knowledge is lacking so let me know if I've missed anything)

Edit: Clapham is mentioned, but that's just a timing issue not a routeing issue?

 

[jfollows]

Thanks jfollows, but this is my point that the above you posted mentions neither via Basingstoke or Clapham Junction (though I admit my knowledge is lacking so let me know if I've missed anything)

Edit: Clapham is mentioned, but that's just a timing issue not a routeing issue?

I then checked the routeing guide, and via Eastleigh is not a permitted route. Why not, I don’t know. Especially given that London-Fareham is, and I spent years (before the routeing guide, to be fair) going this way.

But Earlsfield-Fareham not via London is cheaper than London-Fareham.

 

[ctom_s]

Interesting, it seems absolutely bizarre to me that super off peak tickets from Clapham Junction to Fareham do seem to be valid via Eastleigh whereas going one stop down the line they don't. Then if you go further down the line to Surbiton and bought a super off-peak ticket there it seems to become valid via Eastleigh again?

Realistically would you ever likely be penalised for going the route via Eastleigh, it just seems unbelievably niche could a passenger reasonably be expected to know the PD and PU routing? I guess the answer is probably yes...

 

[Timbo999]

It seems that Clapham Junction is a valid routeing point for this journey. Hence a doubleback at Clapham Junction would allow other routeing options, but I can't see realistically that the doubleback would be mandatory. Interestingly, stations Wimbledon to Surbiton (apart from Berrylands) are all routeing points and, for Portsmouth Group, only allow PU, PD and LONDON. The last of these provides wider routeing options and presumably is valid for a not London ticket - in routeing (not fares) terms you are not using the to London leg of the route and staring short on the from London leg.

 

[ctom_s]

Hi Timbo,

Thanks a lot for your response. Apologies I have many questions(!)

1) How can I find out about routeing points/how do we know Clapham Junction is a valid routing point. I know jfollows linked a routing map but I'm not really sure how to use this without knowing to select for example PU already.
2) If it is valid, why don't the search engines show it, they instead show (for a return), two singles from Earlsfield to Clapham and back + a Super Off Peak from Clapham
3) Really sorry very basic question, what's the definition of a routing point?
4) And apologies again I didn't really understand the last point, you can use LONDON routing from all stations between Wimbledon and Surbiton (aside from berrylands), so you could go via Waterloo on a not via london ticket?

 

[jfollows]

See https://rgpp.iblocks.co.uk/reference-data

Clapham Junction & Wimbledon are defined as routeing points for Earlsfield.

The Routeing Point Calculator shows that either can be used for Earlsfield-Fareham.

Having a ticket, you are unlikely in the extreme to have an Earlsfield-Wimbledon-Eastleigh-Fareham journey queried in any way. But an online ticket site won’t generate an itinerary this way because it’s not valid.

 

[Haywain]

Clapham Junction & Wimbledon are defined as routeing points for Earlsfield.

The Routeing Point Calculator shows that either can be used for Earlsfield-Fareham.

For a ticket routed 'not via London' it clearly states that Clapham Junction is NOT allowed for this journey:

Travel was NOT allowed at NFM64: CDS from CLJ to FRM on route 00700: £15.80 is more expensive than CDS from EAD to FRM on route 00700: £15.30.

 

[jfollows]

Thank you for the correction!

I don’t know what I was looking at, but this explains why via Clapham needs two tickets.

And, yes, we always try and note that the routeing guide is not “recursive” or somesuch. On the face of it, having Waterloo-Fareham and Clapham Junction-Fareham valid via Eastleigh but Earlsfield-Fareham being invalid via Eastleigh doesn’t seem “logical”. But it’s the way it is. Sorry.

 

[Haywain]

And, yes, we always try and note that the routeing guide is not “recursive” or somesuch. On the face of it, having Waterloo-Fareham and Clapham Junction-Fareham valid via Eastleigh but Earlsfield-Fareham being invalid via Eastleigh doesn’t seem “logical”. But it’s the way it is. Sorry.

On the bright side, sometimes apparent anomalies like this get changed after appearing here.

 

[jfollows]

Yes, like adding SW to valid routes Wimbledon-Portsmouth Group.

 

[Kite159]

I suspect if you tried using an Earlsfield - Fareham ticket doubling back via Clapham Junction, most of the SWR won't bat an eyelid at it being "off-route", they know customers double back via Clapham Junction with tickets for Wimbledon (etc) owing to the faster journey time.

 

[ctom_s]

Thanks all, I will look through the routing documentation when I get a chance. I think even if Kite159 is correct about most people not caring I will try and avoid going via Clapham as I don't think it's in the spirit of the ticket being sold. However I will probably continue going via Eastleigh as it just seems a little silly. It's the only direct train from Woking (the main change point if not Clapham) and also the fastest on the standard off peak timetable unless you want to try and make a 4 minute connection at Havant which most search engines won't show.

If I get pulled up on it I'll have to take it on the chin. I really like the Portsmouth via Basingstoke service as it's

1) Direct
2) Often long/not-busy
3) a class 450 which I prefer to the 444s

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Feb 2026 ==

I had a quick look through the routing guide, and there's one thing I still don't get. If I look up Surbiton to Portsmouth Group in the yellow pages it lists the only routes as PD and PU just as for Wimbledon (Earlsfield), but a simple search on the site ticket engine says that if you go from Surbition you CAN go via eastleigh. So what's the difference between Surbiton and Earlsfield/Wimbledon in this instance?

Finally, for 1 pound more than the super off-peak Earlsfield to Fareham I can get a super off-peak Surbition to Fareham valid specifically via Clapham Junction. Am I correct to say that I can just buy this and start and end the Journey at Earlsfield and that then allows me on all routes essentially? (bar Waterloo)

 

[jfollows]

First you need to look up the defined routeing points for Earlsfield, which are Clapham Junction & Wimbledon. Not Surbiton. You can’t just invent a different routeing point. There is a table defining all the routeing points for every station.

Actually, I misread what you put, my point is irrelevant.

There are also “easements” so look in this table for Surbiton.

EDIT But I didn’t find any relevant entries.

 

[Haywain]

So what's the difference between Surbiton and Earlsfield/Wimbledon in this instance?

The difference is that they are different stations, and validity from one has no impact on validity from another.

 

[ctom_s]

Haywain. The reason given to me I'm sure correctly by jfollows was that the Earsfield to Fareham ticket was not valid via Eastleigh because in the routeing guide this route is only valid on routes PU and PD which doesn't include Eastleigh. My point is that if I look up Surbiton to Portsmouth Group in the routing guide it has the exact same valid routes, only PU And PD, so by the same logic the ticket shouldn't be valid via Eastleigh either but it apparently is looking at the site search engine.

Very possibly I'm misunderstanding something!

Anyway if what I posted in the previous post is true, and I believe from my medium rail knowledge it is, since restriction code UP only restricts time and not break of Journey:

"Finally, for 1 pound more than the super off-peak Earlsfield to Fareham I can get a super off-peak Surbition to Fareham valid specifically via Clapham Junction. Am I correct to say that I can just buy this and start and end the Journey at Earlsfield and that then allows me on all routes essentially? (bar Waterloo)"

This all becomes a moot point and I'll just buy that ticket going forward.

 

[jfollows]

The difference is with the tickets.
Wimbledon and Earlsfield to Fareham are “not via London”
Surbiton to Fareham is “via Woking”
Woking to Fareham is valid via Eastleigh according to the routeing guide.
A ticket with a “via” point has valid routes defined for both legs, ie Surbiton-Woking and Woking-Fareham separately, in addition to other routes end-to-end which pass through the via point. At least that’s how I think it works.
It’s a bit of a mess I guess.
It means that SW is valid for Surbiton-Fareham VIA WOKING but not for ANY PERMITTED, or NOT VIA LONDON, if these tickets existed.

I think the reality is that it only matters if you want to rely on a formal itinerary. Onboard staff won’t care because they won’t know.

 

[ctom_s]

ok fantastic that's really helpful thanks for all your help, I find all the routing stuff quite interesting so I will try and educate myself on it all!