E-bikes to be banned

[hexagon789]

There is no safety issue! It's made up! Let's get one thing straight here, exactly the same kind of battery are in every phone and every laptop, so why aren't they banned? Because there's not been the same hype about those is the answer.

The London Fire Brigade might disagree, given how many fires involving e-Bikes they attended (and a further, smaller number involving e-Scooters).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Really.

Samsung suspends sales of Galaxy Note 7 after smartphones catch fire

Korean manufacturer confirms 35 cases of newly launched devices exploding while being charged and offers exchanges but stops short of full recall

www.theguardian.com

Yes, there was a known issue with one specific type of phone, which was as a result banned from several types of transport. The phone was recalled.

By contrast, there have been a lot of issues with a lot of different types of illegal e-bike and e-scooter and the manufacturers aren't reputable enough to recall them etc.

 

[Bungle73]

The point is: If you can walk, then you have another means of movement and therefore it’s not a necessity. If you cannot walk, you could use another means like a mobility scooter or similar.

Yes, as aforementioned, we should try to provide people with equal access but in the case of this while you might be able to argue that disabled people are being restricted from riding a bike because of this, it would appear quite weak against the fact that a. There are other options for the disabled person and b. That combined with the reason for the ban

Forcing people into cars is ok is it?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The London Fire Brigade might disagree, given how many fires involving e-Bikes they attended (and a further, smaller number involving e-Scooters).

The problem is that the illegal bikes are very widespread - pretty much every food delivery person uses one now.

It's good that food delivery is taking place by electric conveyance rather than moped, but these things are dangerous (as is the manner they are mostly ridden). It's very much a policing matter, but as the Police inexplicably fail to deal with it (they should be confiscating and destroying hundreds per day) TfL now feel they have to.

 

[Mawkie]

It's certainly an interesting development.

If you don't live in London and/or use the Underground, I think you would be astonished at the sheer size of some of these imported e-bikes. The are literally the size of motorbikes! Some of the tyres are the width of my thigh. By the time the jumbo Just Eat/Deliveroo box is added, then it's a no brainer to ban them. There's no way they should be carried on small tube trains.

Once you add in the ropey battery manufacturing techniques, and shonky wiring, then it's a recipe for disaster.

Once LU saw that e-bike fire on the platform at Rayners Lane, their hands were surely tied? If that had been on a train in between stations... Wow, the headlines would be "Why weren't they banned long ago?"

 

[Bletchleyite]

Forcing people into cars is ok is it?

It may be the lesser of two evils to force a very small number of people whose journey is otherwise only feasible by a combination of e-bike and TfL services and which can't be done using hire e-bikes into a car or taxi if a mobility scooter isn't an option. But judging how I've never, that I recall, seen a "proper" e-bike on any TfL service (I do see them on other trains) I suspect the number of people affected will be around 0.

 

[Bungle73]

It may be the lesser of two evils to force a very small number of people whose journey is otherwise only feasible by a combination of e-bike and TfL services and which can't be done using hire e-bikes into a car or taxi. But judging how I've never, that I recall, seen a "proper" e-bike on any TfL service (I do see them on other trains) I suspect the number of people affected will be around 0.

So now you want to force people to shell out a huge amount on taxi fares, or buying a car and keeping it on the road.................

And "very small number of people" based on what?

 

[hexagon789]

If you don't live in London and/or use the Underground, I think you would be astonished at the sheer size of some of these imported e-bikes. The are literally the size of motorbikes! Some of the tyres are the width of my thigh. By the time the jumbo Just Eat/Deliveroo box is added, then it's a no brainer to ban them. There's no way they should be carried on small tube trains.

I see them everywhere, a huge number rivalling London in Liverpool and still very common sights in Glasgow, Manchester and Newcastle.

Weirdly, don't seem as common in Edinburgh for some reason but I saw a fair few in Perth!

 

[Bletchleyite]

So now you want to force people to shell out a huge amount on taxi fares, or buying a car and keeping it on the road.................

Or more likely to obtain a mobility scooter, as most such people in that position do.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Mar 2025 ==

And "very small number of people" based on what?

Anecdotal, but based on extensive rail travel. Seeing a bike of any kind on the TfL network other than one being used by a food delivery courier is extremely rare in my experience. On mainline trains this is rather different, but the normal use case is to use the train for the long bit of the journey then ride the bike when you arrive in London, not taking them on TfL services which are often slower than (or certainly no quicker than) cycling, aside from recovering a mechanical failure or puncture.

 

[Tube driver]

If people stuck to purchasing and using well made made bikes from reputable manufacturers which meet all regulations with proven safety records then this wouldn’t have been an issue.

Unfortunately, some users have taken it upon themselves to modify their existing bikes with the cheapest components of dubious source and of dubious construction and some fires have resulted the last being a few weeks ago at Rayners Lane (I think). Blame them for this, not TfL and it’s telling that the Fire Brigade chiefs have also welcomed this move.

It’s the e-scooter issue all over again. People can’t be trusted to buy decent gear and succumb to cheap Chinese tat instead and a blanket ban is imposed to the detriment of responsible owners

 

[AlterEgo]

Because an e-bike enables people to cycle who might not otherwise be able to.

But they’re also responsible for fires, which might not be very disability friendly in a tunnel.

 

[Bungle73]

Or more likely to obtain a mobility scooter, as most such people in that position do.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Mar 2025 ==



Anecdotal, but based on extensive rail travel. Seeing a bike of any kind on the TfL network other than one being used by a food delivery courier is extremely rare in my experience. On mainline trains this is rather different, but the normal use case is to use the train for the long bit of the journey then ride the bike when you arrive in London, not taking them on TfL services which are often slower than (or certainly no quicker than) cycling, aside from recovering a mechanical failure or puncture.

So now someone with a dodgy leg, or asthma, or any other condition that makes riding a regular bike problematic has to buy a mobility scooter? What planet are you on??

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Forcing people into cars is ok is it?

As I mentioned , that is one of the alternatives which when combined with the safety case is likely to hold up quite well as a defence.

So now you want to force people to shell out a huge amount on taxi fares, or buying a car and keeping it on the road.................

If you’re disabled and unable to use other means, you can get a taxi card which provides subsidised taxi travel - https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/taxis-and-minicabs/taxicard-and-capital-call

There are other alternatives as well which don’t involve cars or cabs, such as a mobility scooter

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s the e-scooter issue all over again. People can’t be trusted to buy decent gear and succumb to cheap Chinese tat instead and a blanket ban is imposed to the detriment of responsible owners

The difference with scooters of course being that at present there aren't any reputable ones because they're not yet legal. It's ALL tat.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Mar 2025 ==

So now someone with a dodgy leg, or asthma, or any other condition that makes riding a regular bike problematic has to buy a mobility scooter? What planet are you on??

With London* being quite flat, the number of people in this position will be very, very small. And some of them will be able to switch to a TfL bike hire subscription for part or all of their journey, it's quite good value if you go for the longer subscriptions.

I don't like this as it'll inevitably roll out to the mainline and I do have a legal e-bike and the ability to take it on the train is useful. But I can completely see TfL's side, and suspect a Court would agree that letting fire hazards be taken on the Tube is not a "reasonable adjustment".

* The part covered by TfL, anyway - South London isn't but is also quite sparse in terms of TfL services.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Mar 2025 ==

But they’re also responsible for fires, which might not be very disability friendly in a tunnel.

To be fair, bikes aren't allowed at all in tunnel sections of the deep Tube. Though I suppose they need to take into account the somewhat patchy enforcement of this.

 

[Lewisham2221]

So now someone with a dodgy leg, or asthma, or any other condition that makes riding a regular bike problematic has to buy a mobility scooter? What planet are you on??

I suggest you direct your anger at the government/police forces/trading standards authorities who have done exactly zero to prevent the explosion (pardon the pun) of "dodgy" e-bike/e-scooter/e-motorbike sales/conversion/usage rather than at TfL for trying to keep their staff, customers & property safe and posters on this forum who can simply understand why TfL are taking such action.

 

[kkong]

Faked permits perhaps, though a picture of the bike on the permit would avoid the latter issue.

Conformant bikes are required to have the required label permanently and securely affixed to them, as per the example in the photo below (my own bike).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suppose an issue is training TfL staff to look for that given that they often struggle with basic ticketing rules.

 

[Wolfie]

From BBC News: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgz5p0r58go.amp

This is something the TUs have been calling on for a while, will be interesting to see if any of the mainline Tocs follow suit.

Good. Too many trains are full of couriers or delivery guys with bloody dodgy hardware.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Mar 2025 ==

An abelist move. TfL can expect to find themselves in court

Utter rubbish - perfectly valid on H&S grounds and necessary to prevent strike action by all three main rail unions.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Good. Too many trains are full of couriers or delivery guys with bloody dodgy hardware.

Though I think they missed a trick by folding e-bikes being permitted, as a lot of these dodgy bikes are folders (so they can be taken inside the tiny flats most of them live in).

I saw someone put one on a (peak, short formed) WMT service the other day, it took up half the vestibule. It's clear "folding bike" is intended to mean a Brompton or similar, something that takes up less space than a suitcase, not massive stuff be it those or those folders that are just a normal bike with a single hinge in the frame - perhaps time for that to have a maximum wheel size or something!

 

[Thirteen]

It's long overdue IMO I wonder if the threat of strike action across the network was one of the reasons? I imagine the Lime Bikes and the bikes used by delivery drivers will be banned from being brought onto the network.

 

[skyhigh]

The difference with scooters of course being that at present there aren't any reputable ones because they're not yet legal. It's ALL tat.

Not sure I agree with that. There are large, reputable, retailers selling electric scooters - they are just marked "Not for use on public roads" or similar.

The likes of Argos won't be knowingly selling unsafe tat.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I imagine the Lime Bikes and the bikes used by delivery drivers will be banned from being brought onto the network.

Don't think I ever saw a Lime bike on the Tube. Paying per minute for it while not riding it is a bit of a waste of money.

 

[Thirteen]

Don't think I ever saw a Lime bike on the Tube. Paying per minute for it while not riding it is a bit of a waste of money.

The ones which have been nicked probably would end up on public transport rather than people who paid for usage.

 

[Egg Centric]

I've never, that I recall, seen a "proper" e-bike on any TfL service (I do see them on other trains) I suspect the number of people affected will be around 0.

I've taken mine on the Metropolitan line. Once

Anyway on topic this is just a usual thing of a small minority causing a genuine issue causing an over reaction for ease of enforcement leaving everyone mildly worse off. Like most legislation/rules. I don't think that they had any alternative with all the union pressure. Oh well.

(I'm a bit more cynical about why folding e-bikes are still permitted - I suspect it's because the demographic that has them is noisy and powerful)

 

[bramling]

From BBC News: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgz5p0r58go.amp

This is something the TUs have been calling on for a while, will be interesting to see if any of the mainline Tocs follow suit.

Good. They create a disproportionate amount of problems, and I agree with the view that the legislation / regulations have been very slow to keep pace.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Anyway on topic this is just a usual thing of a small minority causing a genuine issue causing an over reaction for ease of enforcement leaving everyone mildly worse off. Like most legislation/rules. I don't think that they had any alternative with all the union pressure. Oh well.

I'm not sure it is. The majority of e-bikes I've seen on TfL services are these dodgy ones used by food couriers. You almost never see proper ones, which look very different in most cases (though there do exist proper ones with the big wheels).

The majority of them haven't gone up in flames, but I guess all of the cheapo ones pose the same theoretical risk of so doing.

 

[Bungle73]

Good. Too many trains are full of couriers or delivery guys with bloody dodgy hardware.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Mar 2025 ==


Utter rubbish - perfectly valid on H&S grounds and necessary to prevent strike action by all three main rail unions.

So you're claiming that retailers and bike companies in the UK are selling unsafe products do you? That's a lie. I suggest YOU take that up with Canyon or Specialized, or one of many others.

Are the unions running TfL now? Sorry, I must have missed that announcement. So now TfL management have made it known that they will allow themselves to be bulled into implementing unfair and illogical restrictions on pax. Sorry, I've supported other disputes, but on this they are just wrong.

The fact that folding bikes are exempt makes a mockery of the whole thing. It's a sham. Just for show.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So you're claiming that retailers and bike companies in the UK are selling unsafe products do you? That's a lie. I suggest YOU take that up with Canyon or Specialized, or one of many others.

It's not your Canyons, your Specializeds or your Decathlons that are the problem. It's the fake tat. Given that TfL staff struggle with basic ticketing concepts, I think they'd have trouble telling fake e-bikes/electric motorcycles/wheeled fire hazards apart from proper ones.

The fact that folding bikes are exempt makes a mockery of the whole thing. It's a sham. Just for show.

I don't agree with exempting folders. Bromptons are fine just like the above three, but a lot of these dodgy ones are folders.

 

[Bungle73]

It's not your Canyons, your Specializeds or your Decathlons that are the problem. It's the fake tat. Given that TfL staff struggle with basic ticketing concepts, I think they'd have trouble telling fake e-bikes/electric motorcycles/wheeled fire hazards apart from proper ones.



I don't agree with exempting folders. Bromptons are fine just like the above three, but a lot of these dodgy ones are folders.

And these same people are going to tell what's an ebike and what isn't are they? They're going to be able to tell with a quick glance if this is an ebike or not?

 

[Wolfie]

So you're claiming that retailers and bike companies in the UK are selling unsafe products do you? That's a lie. I suggest YOU take that up with Canyon or Specialized, or one of many others.

Are the unions running TfL now? Sorry, I must have missed that announcement. So now TfL management have made it known that they will allow themselves to be bulled into implementing unfair and illogical restrictions on pax. Sorry, I've supported other disputes, but on this they are just wrong.

The fact that folding bikes are exempt makes a mockery of the whole thing. It's a sham. Just for show.

E-bikes on Tube row: Union safety reps 'stormed out of meeting after TfL refused ban'

New twist in London Underground fire risk row after e-bike exploded

www.standard.co.uk

Union representatives stormed out of a meeting with Transport for London because they were so infuriated with its refusal to ban e-bikes from the Tube, it has emerged.

Aslef, the RMT and the TSSA union are all demanding that the rules are changed to ban battery-powered bikes from the London Underground after a catastrophic incident was narrowly averted at a Tube station last month.

The incident, at Rayners Lane station, saw an e-bike explode on a platform shortly before it would have been taken on board a Metropolitan line train.

A London Underground investigation concluded that if the explosion had happened on board the train, the outcome would have been much more severe.

The TSSA, which represents station staff, said its health and safety reps walked out of a meeting with Tube managers on Tuesday after they refused to instigate an immediate ban on the bikes.

TfL says it is acting on London Fire Brigade advice and still considering the evidence, but the TSSA believes that an immediate temporary ban should be enforced, pending the outcome of a wider review of the fire risk.

Aslef, which represents Tube drivers, has warned that it may consider strike action. The TSSA says that it may also ballot its members on taking industrial action.

According to the London Fire Brigade, three people have died in house fires caused by e-bike battery failures in London since 2023 and more than 100 people have been hurt.

There were 143 e-bike fires in London in 2023, 142 last year and 14 in January 2025.

The RMT has been calling for a ban on taking e-bikes on the Tube since 2023.

A fire on a District line train in 2021 that was caused by an e-scooter battery exploding resulted in e-scooters and e-unicycles being banned from the Tube.

TfL said it had “factored in” the apparent increased risk posed by second-hand e-bikes and those with modified batteries to its risk assessments.

Being very blunt if the choice is no TfL services or a small sunset get to ride with their electric bikes then ban them every damned time. I have zero issues with banning all bikes, should you carry on with the same whinge, either.