DVTs on Caledonian Sleeper?

[Charlie Dent]

I think there should be DVTs on the Caledonian Sleeper between Edinburgh or Glasgow and Kings Cross. The MK4 DVT would look good in Caledonian Sleeper livery, and would be good instead of having to shunt stuff around at the terminals. They would definitely look good with the Claas 92s.

 

[Mills444]

Are 92's compatible with MK4 DVTs and you would still need to brake up the train at Carstairs or wherever they do it.

 

[USRailFan]

Since when does the Caledonian Sleeper run into King's Cross?

 

[MalaiseForever]

Since when does the Caledonian Sleeper run into King's Cross?

When there is engineering works in the WCML or at Euston.

 

[Mag_seven]

I think there should be DVTs on the Caledonian Sleeper between Edinburgh or Glasgow and Kings Cross. The MK4 DVT would look good in Caledonian Sleeper livery, and would be good instead of having to shunt stuff around at the terminals. They would definitely look good with the Claas 92s.

Non starter as the Mark 4 DVT is incompatible with Mark 5 stock and there is too much necessary portion working.

 

[jopsuk]

adding a DVT or two to the formation would make it longer than can be handled by the longest platforms at Euston. So unless you were removing carriages, you would instead need to run Edinburgh & Glasgow as separate trains, requiring more locomotives and more drivers, as well as more paths in and out of Euston, Central and Waverly at the start of rush hour.

 

[sprinterguy]

adding a DVT or two to the formation would make it longer than can be handled by the longest platforms at Euston. So unless you were removing carriages, you would instead need to run Edinburgh & Glasgow as separate trains, requiring more locomotives and more drivers, as well as more paths in and out of Euston, Central and Waverly at the start of rush hour.

The DVT would be instead of the loco that brings the stock in from Wembley, so there would be space.

However the idea is still a non-starter due to the issues listed above: Non-compatibility between mark 4 DVTs, mark 5 stock (Different couplers, for one) and class 92 locos (They're not TDM equipped), and the splitting of the trains that occurs at Carstairs or Edinburgh. Previous experience on the West Coast suggests that the TDM multiple working system doesn't appreciate formations being regularly chopped about.

 

[Clansman]

I think there should be DVTs on the Caledonian Sleeper between Edinburgh or Glasgow and Kings Cross. The MK4 DVT would look good in Caledonian Sleeper livery, and would be good instead of having to shunt stuff around at the terminals. They would definitely look good with the Claas 92s.

May I ask if you have considered the things that matter - such as the logistics - as opposed to simple aesthetics?

 

[Ianno87]

The DVT would be instead of the loco that brings the stock in from Wembley, so there would be space.

However the idea is still a non-starter due to the issues listed above: Non-compatibility between mark 4 DVTs, mark 5 stock (Different couplers, for one) and class 92 locos (They're not TDM equipped), and the splitting of the trains that occurs at Carstairs or Edinburgh. Previous experience on the West Coast suggests that the TDM multiple working system doesn't appreciate formations being regularly chopped about.

The Sleeper is a pretty tight fit at Euston. If the DVT was only slightly longer overall than the loco it sits in place of, it may make a difference. Plus assuming signal sighting etc. still works from a differently-arranged cab.

 

[sprinterguy]

The Sleeper is a pretty tight fit at Euston. If the DVT was only slightly longer overall than the loco it sits in place of, it may make a difference. Plus assuming signal sighting etc. still works from a differently-arranged cab.

A mark 4 DVT (18.83 metres) is shorter than a class 92 (21.34 metres). Though as already noted there's various other reasons why the idea isn't plausible.

 

[mark-h]

If it was desired then it would be possible to order Mk5 driving trailers (as found on the MK5A stock). This may make sense if the sleeper was a fixed formation service that did not split/join during its journey.

The only way I could see driving trailers working on the current service, and maintain flexibility would require most/all of the carriages to have driving cabs at both ends (with corridors to allow passengers to reach their berths). This would waste a significant amount of space reducing the train's capacity, raising the cost per passenger.

I can't see this offering any significant benefits.

Given the difficulties the train management computer system is currently having when the hauled carriages are reformed- introducing a lot of driving cabs (most of which will not be in use) would make things even more complex and less likely to work.

 

[gazthomas]

Silly idea

 

[800002]

They're not TDM equipped

Sorry, but could one elaborate please? TDM?

 

[gazthomas]

Sorry, but could one elaborate please? TDM?

Time Division Multiplex, a typically British-style cheap as chips "Heath Robinson" means of using existing cabling between locos and carriages as a means to send control data, similar to power line Ethernet networks in your home

 

[800002]

Time Division Multiplex, a typically British-style cheap as chips "Heath Robinson" means of using existing cabling between locos and carriages as a means to send control data, similar to power line Ethernet networks in your home

Oh crikey, that is clear as mud!

Thank you.

Essentially, making sure that the loco (powering the thing) can communicate with DVT - Driving Van Trailer (and vice versa when the DVT is leading the consist, with the rear locomotive in push mode).

[power line ethernet being those plug 'adapter' thingy-ma-bobs that allow the user to utilise their power socket cabling network to transmit the home networking data usually sent via the Cat 5E 'data cable'.
(note to self, don't ask these questions on a Friday night after several alcoholic beverages!).

Edit: I think i understand. Thank you @gazthomas

 

[gazthomas]

Oh crikey, that is clear as mud!

Thank you.

Essentially, making sure that the loco (powering the thing) can communicate with DVT - Driving Van Trailer (as vice versa when the DVT is leading the consist).

[power line ethernet being those plud 'adapter' thingy-ma-bobs that allow the user to utilise their power socket cabling network to transmit the home networking data usually sent via the Cat 5E 'data cable'.
(note to self, don't ask these questions on a Friday night after several alcoholic beverages!).

Exactly

 

[800002]

(Friday night after several alcoholic beverages!).

And to add a day out in the glorious sunshine, probably not aiding the comprehension of the subject matter!

 

[43096]

Time Division Multiplex, a typically British-style cheap as chips "Heath Robinson" means of using existing cabling between locos and carriages as a means to send control data, similar to power line Ethernet networks in your home

So Heath Robinson that the likes of DB use the UIC train lines on their stock for a similar purpose with time division multiplexing.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

The only DVT that might appear on the Caledonian Sleeper is a Deep Vein Thrombosis from having to sit in a rail replacement coach all night from Euston to Dumbarton.

 

[hexagon789]

I think there should be DVTs on the Caledonian Sleeper between Edinburgh or Glasgow and Kings Cross. The MK4 DVT would look good in Caledonian Sleeper livery, and would be good instead of having to shunt stuff around at the terminals. They would definitely look good with the Claas 92s.

I'm afraid I don't think it's very practical, there's no particularly pressing need for additional luggage space, the DVTs aren't compatible with 92s or indeed Mk5s, it would take up too much space and would provide no significant additional benefit for the expediture required. For the sleepers, due to their nature, push-pull working isn't really required.

Time Division Multiplex, a typically British-style cheap as chips "Heath Robinson" means of using existing cabling between locos and carriages as a means to send control data, similar to power line Ethernet networks in your home

I thought the French used TDM before we did?

 

[Cowley]

Welcome to the forum by the way @Charlie Dent...