Dutch flyer - some facts

[tannedfrog]

The info available on various sites and Liverpool St station is a little vague / inaccurate and the following may help some people:

- Day ferry. Dutchflyer prices are £45, £55 or £65 single. The £65 single can be bought immediately before travelling and cannot sell out.
- Night ferry. The prices are £45, £55 or £65 single plus compulsory cabin. Night ferry tickets cannot be bought on the same day, despite what you may read online.
- Announcements on the night ferry (basically saying "Get up and buy something") start at 05:45 UK time (just 6.5 hours after leaving) so it is not as comfortable and relaxing a journey as seat61 might suggest.
- There are checks (passport etc) at both ends, with potential queues, so it is not simply a matter of strolling from station to ferry to station

 

[306024]

The ticket information may be helpful, but the other comments are a bit strange, not sure quite what you expected.

The disembarkation time at Harwich off the night sailing is 06.30 so I'm glad they wake me up in time for a shower and a coffee. You can board the ship at the Hook early so if you want 8 hours sleep just go to bed sooner.

Of course there are passport and ticket checks. I travelled on the Stena Hollandica a couple of weeks ago (out night sailing, return a week later on the day sailing). The ship was fully booked in both directions but still only took 5 minutes at each end to clear passport control. Most folks have vehicles so travelling as a foot passenger is no hassle at all.

 

[radamfi]

I just went on it last night and was very impressed with the cabin. The ship looked very nice too when I had a look around. I didn't buy anything, and everything looked expensive, but that didn't matter as I was just interested in watching some TV then having a sleep.

I didn't realise it was technically possible to have many UK and Dutch live TV channels as I thought a satellite dish had to be pointing exactly at the satellite which would be difficult on a moving ship.

I actually woke up at 0400 when the ship pulled into Harwich as the ship was shaking and didn't get any more sleep. The call at 0530 is to invite you to breakfast. I didn't fancy it as it was 13 euros but the restaurant looked packed.

I was on my pedal bike and there was no queue at passport control. Bikes use the normal car exit.

 

[tannedfrog]

Personally, being forced to get up at 05:xx is not my idea of a good start to a holiday but each to their own!

 

[embers25]

I just went on it last night and was very impressed with the cabin. The ship looked very nice too when I had a look around. I didn't buy anything, and everything looked expensive, but that didn't matter as I was just interested in watching some TV then having a sleep.

I didn't realise it was technically possible to have many UK and Dutch live TV channels as I thought a satellite dish had to be pointing exactly at the satellite which would be difficult on a moving ship.

I actually woke up at 0400 when the ship pulled into Harwich as the ship was shaking and didn't get any more sleep. The call at 0530 is to invite you to breakfast. I didn't fancy it as it was 13 euros but the restaurant looked packed.

I was on my pedal bike and there was no queue at passport control. Bikes use the normal car exit.

So it arrives at 0400 and you don't get off till 0630?

 

[Greenback]

When travelling to the Netherlands, the 'wake up call' is given at 0645 local time. Yes, this i 0545 UK time, but you will be on the continent, so UK time is pretty irrlevant. Get to bed at 2245 UK time and you will get seven hours of shut eye.

For me, it is a far better option than getting up for an early morning flight, or travelling overnight to London on a National Express coach. As radamfi says, the cabins are very comfortable. The food onboard is also good. Remember, it is not compulsory to get up and have breakfast - we continue napping until we are told to vacat ethe cabin!

I must say I haven't encountered a long queue at either Harwich or the Hook since 1986! This is probably due to the fact that most people these days have vehicles.

 

[ainsworth74]

I didn't realise it was technically possible to have many UK and Dutch live TV channels as I thought a satellite dish had to be pointing exactly at the satellite which would be difficult on a moving ship.

The wonders of modern technology! As long as you know where the satellite is in the sky (and TV satellites are geo-stationary so it isn't moving), where you are on the earth (GPS), what direction you're going in and how fast it isn't that hard to come up with a piece of software that can keep a satellite dish pointing at the transmitter. Pitch and roll might be an issue in rough seas but if the dish was mounted on a gimbal or similar that shouldn't be a problem. An alternative might be to do it on signal strength so as the signal get weaker the dish reorients itself back to getting a strong signal.

 

[radamfi]

So it arrives at 0400 and you don't get off till 0630?

It leaves Hoek van Holland at 2230 NL time so it should arrive at 0400 UK time based on a 6.5 hour trip like the daytime service. I presume they don't let you off until 0630 to give you a bit more sleep.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Personally, being forced to get up at 05:xx is not my idea of a good start to a holiday but each to their own!

I suppose they could give people more sleep by changing the disembarking time to 0730 or later but then I'm sure some people would not be happy by not being able to set off early.

 

[306024]

The night ship from Holland is timed to suit freight, in particular getting fresh Dutch produce to the English market - hence the 04.00 arrival at Harwich. Freight is where the ships make their money.

The Stena Britanica is the ship used on the night sailings from Holland, and returns from Harwich to The Hook at 09.00 (10.00 Sunday). With hundreds of cabins to service in a short space of time it isn't possible to stay on board to 07.30. Of course you will have 'gained' an hour putting your watch back to UK time.

On the Dutch side disembarkation from the night ferry is at 07.45, but having lost an hour with the clock change to Dutch time I am usually sound asleep before we have left Harwich.

And if the seas are too rough for the satellite TV (although these are huge ships and quite stable), tune to channel 5 which is the view from the camera on the bridge. At least you can see the waves approach before they hit the ship

 

[Greenback]

Yes, freight is the money maker for all ferries these days. Foot passengers come well down the list of priorities! Brittany Ferries was originally set up to help fresh produce from Brittany get to the English markets quicker than the alternative routes.

 

[gordonthemoron]

another fact, you don't have to use the boat train (EMU), you can take any train to/from Manningtree and change. This allows you to use the more comfortable loco hauled IC trains

 

[306024]

True, although Mon - Fri the 07.18 and 07.43 InterCity services from Manningtree to Liverpool St can be full and standing from Manningtree, especially at the start of the week, and therefore less than comfortable. Not so bad on a Friday.

 

[Squaddie]

Personally, being forced to get up at 05 : xx is not my idea of a good start to a holiday but each to their own!

I don't really think it's reasonable to complain that you are being "forced" to get up when it is still quite early back in the UK. Where will it end? Complaining that your hotel in Sydney is serving breakfast at 10pm UK time?

 

[embers25]

It leaves Hoek van Holland at 2230 NL time so it should arrive at 0400 UK time based on a 6.5 hour trip like the daytime service. I presume they don't let you off until 0630 to give you a bit more sleep.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I suppose they could give people more sleep by changing the disembarking time to 0730 or later but then I'm sure some people would not be happy by not being able to set off early.

In my previous experiences a few years back now it just ran at a slower speed overnight to give a smoother journey and therefore arrived on time a bit like the Brittany Ferries overnight ones from Pompey. Personally I prefer the Helsinki-Tallinn approach where Tallinn to Helsinki it arrives after a normal 2 hour crossing at 0030 but you can stay on overnight and disembark whenever you like up until 0600 and the other way it leaves at 0730 but you can board from 0035 and sleep on board.

 

[csd]

The wife and I did this in April (having started the day with a SailRail from Dublin), and I can't really fault the experience apart from one thing: the security theatre (pantomime) in Harwich. We had to queue up, have our luggage X-rayed, and go through a metal detector. Now unless they do the same for every single car passenger, what is the point of this? There's none of this nonsense on the Irish Sea!

/csd

 

[47513 Severn]

I've been using the route for around ten years and the foot passenger experience at Harwich has gotten gradually worse over that time. The current farce of queuing to enter check in, queuing again for the metal detector and queuing again to collect your boarding pass is beyond a joke. The last time I did it the whole process took over an hour from check in opening to setting foot on the boat!

Naturally on the sensible dutch side the process still takes five minutes as it always has done. Collect your passes at one desk, show your passport at the next and walk on to the boat, simples!

I complained to Stena about the Harwich situation and didn't even get a reply. Whilst I suspect the cause is down to customs/borders/security officialdom and their 'because we can' attitude, Stena are still the service provider to me and I would expect them to take it more seriously.

That said they still have a way to go to match the ludicrous foot passenger process at Dover, but don't get me started on that...

47513

 

[tannedfrog]

At Harwich, you simply walk off the train, up the steps or use the lift onto the footbridge and straight into the ferry terminal. Walk through the departures door and through a quick & easy security check & passport control to the check-in desk. You show your passport & e-ticket and are given your cabin key, then you walk up the gangway onto the ferry to Hoek van Holland. It's unbelievably quick & painless compared to airports, train to ferry takes just 10 minutes.

Hmmm, often not the case.

I think you can get from Stansted platforms to gate in 10 minutes as well at quiet times.

The Stena Hollandica is the largest RoPax ferry in the world, a 63,000 ton floating hotel with over 1,400 beds in 538 cabins. Steady as a rock!

Except when it shakes upon arrival!

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

I did raise the security at Harwich with Stena as a foot pax after a particularly long delay in early 2012 and got a reply saying they were aware and were working on it.
It does seem very odd that the security/queueing here is so slow, compared with other ports/airports/Eurostar. Are foot passengers more likely to try to get firearms and explosives on board?
My 2012 trip put me off using the route, but I did eventually give it another go this July and it was much better (although I checked in quite late, at c.2145).

 

[306024]

Of course if everyone turns up at 21.00ish, which is when the boat train arrives, there are bound to be queues. It is a big ship. In which case just sit down, relax and let the queue die down.

My last trip was no problem, and I did indeed arrive at 21.00. Still way preferable to taking off your belt and shoes at an airport.

 

[Greenback]

Of course if everyone turns up at 21.00ish, which is when the boat train arrives, there are bound to be queues. It is a big ship. In which case just sit down, relax and let the queue die down.

My last trip was no problem, and I did indeed arrive at 21.00. Still way preferable to taking off your belt and shoes at an airport.

You have a point. That is likely to be the busiest time for boarding, and the time when a passenger will encounter delays.

I would recommend taking an alternative train if possible.

I suspect that any security screening, X-Ray machines etc are down to the rather paranoid UK government Transport Security Committee or whatever they call themselves. As mentioned, it is pointless doing this for foot passengers unless it is also done for all the car and lorry drivers and their passengers as well.

I don't remember any security checks at Hoek. I may have just not noticed them though, as the Europeans seem to have a much better attitude towards them, and don't make such a fuss with queuing systems!

 

[30907]

Belated comments:

A wake-up call an hour before disembarkation is better than (e.g.) North Sea Ferries where it's 90 minutes - the only better route in my book is Brittany to St Malo (and that's only overnight outbound), but that's hardly relevant on a rail-related forum.

The security check at Harwich is new on me, but I haven't travelled as a foot passenger for over a year now.

It's easy to avoid the check-in queues, my gripe is the scrum that forms for disembarkation at Hoek (and at Harwich I presume but I've not tried it).

The 0630 disembarkation at Harwich goes back a long way, and it was 0645 at Hoek too in BR days

 

[181]

I travelled out this way a few weeks ago, and despite arriving on the boat train I really did get from platform to ship in not much more than 10 minutes (about 12, I think). Perhaps it was just a quiet night, but none of the stages of checking in seemed to take very long. It may have helped that the metal-detecting archway was switched off, so only bags got scanned.

My brother lives in Essex and has used this route several times in recent years; he says that he's never had a problem with check-in once it's open, but has sometimes had to hang around in the terminal for 20 minutes or so waiting for the UK Border Agency people to turn up so the process can begin.

Getting ashore at the Dutch end took longer than I expected -- nearly half an hour from when the boat docked. Part of this time was spent waiting to be let off, and part queuing for passport control. If I remember rightly, the right-hand queue moved faster as it was for EU citizens only, but this wasn't apparent from the back of the queues.

 

[Gordon]

In the old days I always made sure that I took a normal train to Dover or Newhaven ahead of the boat train - always got me to the front of the queue.

Regarding the wake up call at 05.XX, this is not exactly new, and the night on Harwich Hook is not short compared to the good old days of cross channel travel. Personal choice is a factor here. For donkey's years I observed passengers on night crossings staying up until the bar closes and beyond, and then complaining about being woken up too early the next morning!

One got far less sleep on the Newhaven - Dieppe and Dover - Oostende and Dover - Dunkerque Night Ferry night connections, but that was just an accepted part of taking that route abroad.

and BTW going 1st class sleeper on the NIght Ferry was a waste of money as all but the heaviest sleeper got woken up by the clanking of the huge chains required to tie down the sleeping cars on the ferry deck.




.

 

[gordonthemoron]

First time I went Harwich-Hoek overnight was in 1984, we had basic cabins with shared bathrooms. These were underneath the car deck in the bowels of the ship. Due to the rough crossing, we were kept awake much of the night by the hull crashing into the waves. I think it was the Princess Beatrix

 

[Greenback]

First time I went Harwich-Hoek overnight was in 1984, we had basic cabins with shared bathrooms. These were underneath the car deck in the bowels of the ship. Due to the rough crossing, we were kept awake much of the night by the hull crashing into the waves. I think it was the Princess Beatrix

My first trip was in 1985. We had reclining seats and didn't get a lot of sleep!

 

[30907]

And mine in 1980... shared cabin with a stranger, as you did then.

 

[gordonthemoron]

And mine in 1980... shared cabin with a stranger, as you did then.

bad memory of last year, Riga-Stockholm, sharing with two Russians, one was asleep the other was extremely drunk

 

[eastwestdivide]

My first trip was in 1985. We had reclining seats and didn't get a lot of sleep!

Aargh, those reclining seats - I did Harwich-Hoek about the same period, and just could not get to sleep in those seats, both because of the constant noise and movement from other people and because they weren't that comfortable. Ended up sleeping on the floor leaning on my rucksack against the wall (for comfort and security). Woke up and my face was sticking to the mucky carpet. Yuk.
Came back on the daytime sailing, rough seas making me feel queasy, but decided on the "kill or cure" method of the all-you-can-eat-for-17-guilders* buffet. Just nibbling bits of bland food and sipping coffee with a view of the horizon seemed to work.
All hail to Eurostar from those of us who don't get on with lumpy seas, but this thread has persuaded me that I should try the overnight cabins next year.

*the currency is correct, but the amount's just a guess.

 

[30907]

this thread has persuaded me that I should try the overnight cabins next year.

I've tested inside single/twin, outside twin and comfort class - they definitely have the edge over equivalents on North Sea Ferries and Brittany Ferries.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I can't say I found much difference between North Sea, Brittany & Harwich-Hoek cabins althouh I think the ships on the latter are a bit better (and the foot passenger checkin easier)