Durham, ticket barriers removed

[AY1975]

All I know is that barriers are included (see Edinburgh City Council planning application 16/05341/PA). With the escalator being moved to run parallel to the main north-south footbridge/walkway, the ticket gateline will run from the end of the southern ramp to the lift, with the gap between the lift and the end of platform 6 being fenced off. Platforming arrangements aren't discussed but it would make sense to try to minimise the use of barriered platforms for the long distance services. In this case I think it's not the concept of barriers that's the problem but the fact that there would be so few of them, and so awkwardly placed, for a full trainload of passengers from platforms 6 and 7.

My understanding of it is that Platforms 5 and 6 are being extended eastwards. However, according to the plan of Waverley station on the National Rail website, there is no Platform 5 or 6 at present - I presume these are disused platforms that will be brought back into use, or renumbered from existing platforms?

It would appear that only Platforms 1, 2 and 10, plus 8 and 9 (the island platform outside the trainshed roof) and maybe east-facing terminal bays 3 and 4, will be the only remaining ungated platforms. Apart from 3 and 4, it would be difficult to gate those, although I suppose they could put gates at the bottom of the stairs and by the lifts on 8 and 9.

A lot of major stations were completely redesigned as open stations in the 1980s, and having to redesign them again as barriered stations must be a real headache, and probably none more so than Waverley, given its complex layout. In fact, I find it hard to imagine how Waverley must have been in the days before BR changed to open stations.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Wonder if this was something to do with VTEC's decision (considering the date they were removed)...

Very probably. That and the fact VTEC don't operate most trains at Durham, which I'm sure has an effect on ORCATS. But Durham should never have been barriered, there simply isn't the room. Whatever the reason, I'm glad to see the back of them.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Installations at Durham, Newark North Gate and Grantham were totally ridiculous and I'm glad they're gone. They restricted passenger flow and caused congestion and inconvenience, and issues whenever there was a bike or wheelchair that needed to get through.

The installation at Peterborough on the other hand was entirely appropriate as there are unstaffed trains from there and it may not be possible to check all tickets even on trains with a guard. If they would just have actually had the gates closed...

They didn't create problems with flow nearly as much as the ones at Grantham or Newark so removing those is odd.

one has to question why Lincoln Parkway (NNG) needs barriers as the vast majority of it's services at VTEC as the local travel other than to retford or grantham teands to go from Castle

 

[NotATrainspott]

My understanding of it is that Platforms 5 and 6 are being extended eastwards. However, according to the plan of Waverley station on the National Rail website, there is no Platform 5 or 6 at present - I presume these are disused platforms that will be brought back into use, or renumbered from existing platforms?

It would appear that only Platforms 1, 2 and 10, plus 8 and 9 (the island platform outside the trainshed roof) and maybe east-facing terminal bays 3 and 4, will be the only remaining ungated platforms. Apart from 3 and 4, it would be difficult to gate those, although I suppose they could put gates at the bottom of the stairs and by the lifts on 8 and 9.

A lot of major stations were completely redesigned as open stations in the 1980s, and having to redesign them again as barriered stations must be a real headache, and probably none more so than Waverley, given its complex layout. In fact, I find it hard to imagine how Waverley must have been in the days before BR changed to open stations.

Platform 5 and 6 don't currently exist for passengers. From a railway perspective they are short stub sidings at the eastern end which used to be used for motorail and now are used to stable locomotives when not in use. Helpfully, when Waverley had its platforms renumbered a decade ago (when today's 1, 20 and 10 came into service) they knew that 5 and 6 would be needed.

 

[LowLevel]

Funnily enough I now have to sell tickets on nearly every train I work out of Grantham. When there were barriers and they were manned people made the effort to use the machines or booking office. Now they have stopped again because 'I was running a bit late mate'. I resent the abuse I now get for selling only anytimes on board as a consequence.

 

[eastdyke]

Funnily enough I now have to sell tickets on nearly every train I work out of Grantham. When there were barriers and they were manned people made the effort to use the machines or booking office. Now they have stopped again because 'I was running a bit late mate'. I resent the abuse I now get for selling only anytimes on board as a consequence.

If the journey is to Newark NG anytime is the only fare. Oh hang on the barriers have gone from there too. So there is another fare.

I asked at a TO about VTEC's concern for ticketless travel and was told that onboard checks were being 'reinforced' and that was cheaper. Well, I hope so but havn't seen any evidence myself.

It simply doesn't stack up to me.

Or perhaps IEP has got a magical ticket to enter system that I don't know about?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Funnily enough I now have to sell tickets on nearly every train I work out of Grantham. When there were barriers and they were manned people made the effort to use the machines or booking office. Now they have stopped again because 'I was running a bit late mate'. I resent the abuse I now get for selling only anytimes on board as a consequence.

Funnily enough I also think removal of the barriers at Durham was a bad move. The absence of station staff on the platform since two of the ladies have now lost their jobs hasn't gone unnoticed.

 

[edwin_m]

If the journey is to Newark NG anytime is the only fare. Oh hang on the barriers have gone from there too. So there is another fare.

I believe LowLevel is referring to the EMT services, which have other stations within a fairly short travel time of Grantham. Although with few trains longer than 2 cars there is at least the possibility of getting all the way down the train for tickets, unlike a nine-coach VTEC between Grantham and Newark.

 

[eastdyke]

I believe LowLevel is referring to the EMT services, which have other stations within a fairly short travel time of Grantham. Although with few trains longer than 2 cars there is at least the possibility of getting all the way down the train for tickets, unlike a nine-coach VTEC between Grantham and Newark.

I am sure that LowLevel is talking about EMT services too. I was bringing in VTEC who run the stations from which the barriers have been removed.
My observations of 'no increase in ticket checks' extend far further along the route than just Newark-Grantham.
And of course EMT do work services out of Newark as well.

 

[aviator]

The footbridge at Guildford station is a public right of way. That didn't stop barriers being installed.

If I recall from when I lived in Dorking (and regularly used the North Downs line), this is because platform tickets are regularly issued by gate staff at either end. It's still a public right of way and if SWT/FGW don't like that they will have to move the station (or build a completely separate station-only footbridge)

 

[infobleep]

If I recall from when I lived in Dorking (and regularly used the North Downs line), this is because platform tickets are regularly issued by gate staff at either end. It's still a public right of way and if SWT/FGW don't like that they will have to move the station (or build a completely separate station-only footbridge)

Any station can be barriers then as long as tickets to cross the footbridge are issued to show passengers aren't using the platforms.

The tickets issued state you can't go on thr platforms. I once asked if a platform ticket could be purchased. I was told no.

 

[AY1975]

Once the platform extension works are done at Waverley, platforms 6, 7, 11 and 12 will all be barriered. It's going to be interesting, to say the least, because three full length (i.e. ICEC) and one 8-car length platform will share one fairly small set of barriers right in the middle of all of them. I wouldn't be surprised if the ICEC services were preferentially routed into platforms 1 and 5 so that long-distance passengers won't have to mix with commuters.

As I understand it, Platforms 5 and 6 are the two currently disused east-facing terminal bays which used to be used as motorail loading bays (and latterly as an executive car park).

If Platform 6 will be gated but not Platform 5, that would suggest that Platform 6 is intended mainly for Scottish internal services and Platform 5 for terminating ICEC trains.

Subjecting disembarking ICEC passengers to a barrier check seems pretty pointless, as they should, at least in theory, always be checked on-board (except possibly for anyone boarding at Dunbar on the few ICEC trains that call there). On most ICEC trains the last stop before Edinburgh is at Berwick, Morpeth or Alnmouth.

GNER used to be pretty thorough with on-train checks: on a King's Cross-Edinburgh train they would often do a full ticket check after York and after Newcastle. In any case a full check after a crew change used to be the norm in BR days.

AFAIK ICEC and Sleeper passengers alighting at Waverley have been able to walk straight off without a barrier check for about the last 35 years.

 

[A Challenge]

Any station can be barriers then as long as tickets to cross the footbridge are issued to show passengers aren't using the platforms.

The tickets issued state you can't go on thr platforms. I once asked if a platform ticket could be purchased. I was told no.

Return to Shalford is the cheapest ticket - even cheaper if you get a single and/or have a railcard!

 

[NotATrainspott]

As I understand it, Platforms 5 and 6 are the two currently disused east-facing terminal bays which used to be used as motorail loading bays (and latterly as an executive car park).

If Platform 6 will be gated but not Platform 5, that would suggest that Platform 6 is intended mainly for Scottish internal services and Platform 5 for terminating ICEC trains.

Subjecting disembarking ICEC passengers to a barrier check seems pretty pointless, as they should, at least in theory, always be checked on-board (except possibly for anyone boarding at Dunbar on the few ICEC trains that call there). On most ICEC trains the last stop before Edinburgh is at Berwick, Morpeth or Alnmouth.

GNER used to be pretty thorough with on-train checks: on a King's Cross-Edinburgh train they would often do a full ticket check after York and after Newcastle. In any case a full check after a crew change used to be the norm in BR days.

AFAIK ICEC and Sleeper passengers alighting at Waverley have been able to walk straight off without a barrier check for about the last 35 years.

Platforms 5 and 6 are being built deliberately for the IEP. There aren't many Scottish internal services that run east of Edinburgh only, and those which do tend to be small trains which can already be accommodated in the existing eastern bays.

I think the fact that Platform 6 will be barriered will be noted, but it isn't a show-stopper about using it for IEP services. It might be the case that they'll be able to get away with using Platform 5 most of the time, with 6 only for overflow during the very busiest times. It certainly wouldn't be worth building only one platform rather than two if that were all that were required.

In the Scotland Route Study it says that NR are planning to extend some of the other existing long platforms like 1, 10 and 20. Presumably these will need to be used for InterCity services even if they're not ideal being behind barriers. In the longer term there'll be an opportunity to optimise things when the mezzanine level goes up (NR want to make it impossible to use the existing one to get around once they're done extending every single platform they can), as you can then add in many more lifts and stairs/escalators as well as having more sane gatelines.