Duplicated Headcodes

[Robsignals]

While looking at http://traintimes.im I found the 0630SX Broadstairs/0658SO Faversham to St Pancras arr 0806 and the 0825 St P to Sheffield are both 1F13. Interesting that they're active in St P at the same time fortunately the responsibility of different Signalling Centres, but still a potential for confusion in the Station Supervisors office.

1F13 is also:
0729SX Witham to Liverpool St 0819
0738SX Hastings to Lewes (attaches to 1F11 0821 Seaford to Victoria 0958)
0750SO Ore (via Eastbourne) to Victoria 0958
0907 Euston to Liverpool LS 1115
1130 Cardiff C to Portsmouth Hbr 1454.

 

[gnolife]

2P12 is a good one for duplication
11:36 Kings Cross - Peterborough 13:05 (Capital Connect)
05:49 Oxford - Paddington 07:31 (Great Western)
08:36 Norwich - Great Yarmouth 09:11 (Greater Anglia)
06:40 Stourbridge Town - Stourbridge Jn 06:43 (London MIdland)
15:04 Stourbridge Town - Stourbridge Jn 15:07 (London Midland)
23:35 Stourbridge Town - Stourbridge Jn 23:38 (London Midland)
08:05 Bromley North - Grove Park 08:10 (Southeastern)
23:53 Bromley North - Grove Park 23:58 (Southeastern)
11:20 Glasgow Central - Newton Lanarkshire via Mount Florida 11:44 (ScotRail)
06:39 Perth - Newcraighall 08:31 (ScotRail)
04:43 Portsmouth Hbr - London Waterloo via Haslemere 06:40 (South West Trains)
11:18 Cardiff Central - Penarth 11:29 (Arriva Trains Wales)

 

[EM2]

Not really, the only time St Pancras station staff need to be concerned with the headcode is when they doing a passenger assist. Each TOC had their own staff for despatch etc., and they're in separate parts of the station.
There's many duplicated ones, and we've never called the wrong station yet!

 

[Robsignals]

2P12 is a good one for duplication
11:36 Kings Cross - Peterborough 13:05 (Capital Connect)
05:49 Oxford - Paddington 07:31 (Great Western)
08:36 Norwich - Great Yarmouth 09:11 (Greater Anglia)
06:40 Stourbridge Town - Stourbridge Jn 06:43 (London MIdland)
15:04 Stourbridge Town - Stourbridge Jn 15:07 (London Midland)
23:35 Stourbridge Town - Stourbridge Jn 23:38 (London Midland)
08:05 Bromley North - Grove Park 08:10 (Southeastern)
23:53 Bromley North - Grove Park 23:58 (Southeastern)
11:20 Glasgow Central - Newton Lanarkshire via Mount Florida 11:44 (ScotRail)
06:39 Perth - Newcraighall 08:31 (ScotRail)
04:43 Portsmouth Hbr - London Waterloo via Haslemere 06:40 (South West Trains)
11:18 Cardiff Central - Penarth 11:29 (Arriva Trains Wales)

That was quick! Multiple trains making the same journey, could be more confusion there but miles apart otherwise.

 

[MCR247]

Aren't pretty much all headcodes duplicated?

 

[Class377/5]

There's quite a few times headcodes are duplicated on the same day within a TOC. Kentish Town to Sevenoaks has this with trains 12hrs apart.

As for same headcode across the country, happens all the time. And yes sometimes they do mix in the same areas.

 

[313103]

London Overground duplicate virtually all there services. Especially on those lines like the East London Line and the North London Line with headways at an average of 10 minutes it is not long vefore duplication starts. Not sure if we have triplicate yet though.

 

[Skoodle]

The East London Line has no headcodes that are duplicated on any given day. There's plenty to go around!

Highbury - Crystal Palace: 9A**
Crystal Palace to Highbury: 9B**
Highbury to West Croydon: 9C**
West Croydon to Highbury: 9D**
Dalston to New Cross: 9E**
New Cross to Dalston: 9F**
The highest digits we'll get to on a normal day of service is is around 74/75.
5*** for ECS on ELL core route, 3*** on Southern section.

 

[bb21]

Not sure if we have triplicate yet though.

2F35 Warrington Bank Quay - Liverpool Lime Street High Level, at 0922, 1422 and 1922.

 

[flymo]

Just out of curiosity, the maximum number of individual headcodes that could be used if using a 4 digit format would be 10 (0-9) x 26 (a-z) x 100 (00-99) = 26,000.

Does that sound about right????

 

[MattRobinson]

The maths sounds right to me. However, 1xxx & 2xxx will be the most common headcodes and don't forget that some letters are reserved.

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2

 

[class57basher]

Why does the ELL use 9 as there headcodes. usually the class 9 code is for eurostar services.

The East London Line has no headcodes that are duplicated on any given day. There's plenty to go around!

Highbury - Crystal Palace: 9A**
Crystal Palace to Highbury: 9B**
Highbury to West Croydon: 9C**
West Croydon to Highbury: 9D**
Dalston to New Cross: 9E**
New Cross to Dalston: 9F**
The highest digits we'll get to on a normal day of service is is around 74/75.
5*** for ECS on ELL core route, 3*** on Southern section.

 

[Tomnick]

Not enough 2xxx reporting numbers available, as I understand it - the class 9 designation also provides an obvious means of differentiating ELL trains from Up trains into London Bridge, hopefully minimising the risk of wrong-routes.

Class 9 is now used to identify a "Class 373 train or other passenger train if specially authorised".

 

[jopsuk]

Just out of curiosity, the maximum number of individual headcodes that could be used if using a 4 digit format would be 10 (0-9) x 26 (a-z) x 100 (00-99) = 26,000.

Does that sound about right????

Yes, but not all the letters are used; the first digit (as said) for almost all passenger services is 1 or 2. Is 00 used normally or do most start from 01?

 

[The Planner]

00 is definitely used for freight.

 

[asylumxl]

Would they use the headcodes at the station anyway?

Forgive my ignorance, but I would have thought they'd use the "UID" anyway, which would not be duplicated elsewhere.

 

[Robsignals]

Would they use the headcodes at the station anyway?

Forgive my ignorance, but I would have thought they'd use the "UID" anyway, which would not be duplicated elsewhere.

AFAIK Signalling displays/Train Describers only use Headcodes so that is all the signalling 'mimic' monitors in station offices show. As they're seen in real time it's obvious which time train it is, but when a train is being referred to in the past or future confusion could occur.

 

[KingBBoogaloo]

That was quick! Multiple trains making the same journey, could be more confusion there but miles apart otherwise.

Sometimes they are not miles apart, but the very next train. Instead of headcodes which identify the service, the Tyne & Wear Metro use a three digit Train Running Number which is used to identify that days diagram, however when a Metro enters the proper railway at Pelaw that running number has to becomes a headcode, so 111 becomes 2I11, which leads to the following:

2I11 0704 Newcastle Airport to South Hylton
2I11 0812 South Hylton to Newcastle Airport
2I11 0928 Newcastle Airport to South Hylton
2I11 1037 South Hylton to Newcastle Airport
2I11 1152 Newcastle Airport to South Hylton
2I11 1301 South Hylton to Newcastle Airport
2I11 1416 Newcastle Airport to South Hylton
2I11 1525 South Hylton to Newcastle Airport
2I11 1640 Newcastle Airport to South Hylton
2I11 1750 South Hylton to Newcastle Airport
2I11 1857 Newcastle Airport to South Hylton
2I11 2007 South Hylton to Newcastle Airport
2I11 2127 Newcastle Airport to South Hylton

 

[313103]

The East London Line has no headcodes that are duplicated on any given day. There's plenty to go around!

Highbury - Crystal Palace: 9A**
Crystal Palace to Highbury: 9B**
Highbury to West Croydon: 9C**
West Croydon to Highbury: 9D**
Dalston to New Cross: 9E**
New Cross to Dalston: 9F**
The highest digits we'll get to on a normal day of service is is around 74/75.
5*** for ECS on ELL core route, 3*** on Southern section.

My apologies for being incorrect. The North London Line operates with 2NXX on the Richmond to Stratford (evens in one direction and odds in the other), Clapham Junction / Willesden Junction Low Level to Stratford operate with 2LXX, Stratford / Willesden Junction to Clapham Junction is 2YXX. The only other changes are made if there are engineeing works then the headcodes change often to 2SXX.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Why does the ELL use 9 as there headcodes. usually the class 9 code is for eurostar services.

As an aside i remeber the class nine headcode being denoted as a Loose coupled freight train, maximum speed 35mph.

 

[Poggs]

Forgive my ignorance, but I would have thought they'd use the "UID" anyway, which would not be duplicated elsewhere.

The UID refers to the schedule, not the train.

 

[asylumxl]

The UID refers to the schedule, not the train.

But if you had two trains with the same headcode in close proximity (as shown above), would it not be logical to use a unique ID?

 

[87015]

Class 9 is now used to identify a "Class 373 train or other passenger train if specially authorised".

Perhaps for LTP but Class 9s have been totally relaxed. We use them STP effectively as and when we fancy and they are the usual thing during disruption if there are extras about. No-one bats an eyelid and certainly no special authorisation!

 

[GB]

XX00 is also used for both in service and out of service passenger trains.

 

[Poggs]

But if you had two trains with the same headcode in close proximity (as shown above), would it not be logical to use a unique ID?

You could do - but logical doesn't mean correct.

 

[Robsignals]

Sometimes they are not miles apart, but the very next train. Instead of headcodes which identify the service, the Tyne & Wear Metro use a three digit Train Running Number which is used to identify that days diagram, however when a Metro enters the proper railway at Pelaw that running number has to becomes a headcode, so 111 becomes 2I11, which leads to the following:

2I11 0704 Newcastle Airport to South Hylton
2I11 0812 South Hylton to Newcastle Airport
2I11 0928 Newcastle Airport to South Hylton
2I11 1037 South Hylton to Newcastle Airport
2I11 1152 Newcastle Airport to South Hylton
2I11 1301 South Hylton to Newcastle Airport
2I11 1416 Newcastle Airport to South Hylton
2I11 1525 South Hylton to Newcastle Airport
2I11 1640 Newcastle Airport to South Hylton
2I11 1750 South Hylton to Newcastle Airport
2I11 1857 Newcastle Airport to South Hylton
2I11 2007 South Hylton to Newcastle Airport
2I11 2127 Newcastle Airport to South Hylton

They're all on the same route so NR isn't very interested, just passing them through and back.