Dundee to Wilmslow return

[passivepassion]

I wonder if this is an anomaly in the booking system. I need to travel from Dundee to Wilmslow mid-week next week, just staying overnight there and then return to Scotland. I was searching for available flexible fares on the EC website, and noted the off-peak return without railcard is £91.30 which is 'valid via Lancaster'.

Ideally, I would like to travel on the 1334dep from Dundee arriving Wilmslow at 1827. However, when I select this fare, the website greyed-out this departure (and some others as well). The only bookable departures are those going via Manchester. I then tried 'avoid Manchester' to see if it gives me any other available fares. The 1334 departure was still shown on the planner as a valid journey, but there was again no available fares.

So my questions are,

1. Can I use the £91.30 off-peak ticket for this journey, i.e. the 1334dep, which obviously goes via Lancaster?
2. If the answer is no to the above, then how could I get an available fare for this journey?
3. More of a diplomatic question. If this 1334dep has no available fare, why is it even showing up as a valid journey? (I tried VT and ScotRail booking engines and this journey was not shown)

Any help would be much appreciated. Many many thanks.

 

[yorkie]

The booking engines are not allowing the ticket via Crewe. The alternative is to change at Wigan (11 minute connection - you have to cross the road but that only takes a couple of minutes) and Manchester (12 minute connection) arriving Wilmslow 1847.


The Routeing Guide would need to be consulted to determine if Crewe is a valid route or not. Regardless of what the RG says, I doubt the guard is going to mind you going via Crewe.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It's cheaper to buy an Off Peak Return to Stockport, then an Evening Return from Stockport to Wilmslow (£1.90 - discard the rtn portion), and the next day a single from Wilmslow to Stockport (£3.10). Obviously this requires travel via Manchester.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The only route I can see via Crewe in the Routeing Guide is on Maps GA+WG+NC+MH and Maps FD+WG+NC+MH...

Dundee-Glasgow/Edinburgh-Carlisle-Crewe-Stoke on Trent-Stockport-Wilmslow

...It is not valid on any direct Crewe-Wilmslow services that I can see.

 

[rail-britain]

2. If the answer is no to the above, then how could I get an available fare for this journey?

Usual advice applies, split the tickets
Dundee - Glasgow / Haymarket
Glasgow / Haymarket - Manchester / Crewe
Manchester / Crewe - Wilmslow

 

[John @ home]

I agree with yorkie that it's cheaper to buy a £78.40 Off-Peak Return (SVR) Dundee - Stockport route Lancaster plus the additional local tickets he lists, at a total cost of £83.40.

But if you particularly want to travel by the suggested itinerary at 1334

13:34 Dundee - Haymarket 14:47
14:56 Haymarket - Crewe 17:58
18:11 Crewe - Wilmslow 18:27

my suggestion is that you buy a SVR Dundee - Crewe route Carlisle. At £91.30, this is the same price as the SVR Dundee - Wilmslow route Lancaster.

You then use the whole of the outward portion on the first two trains listed above. The relevant restriction 8X is

Outward and Return journeys, MONDAY to FRIDAY only.
No travel restrictions on other days.

By any train except those scheduled to depart before 0500.

Break of journey is allowed on both outward and return legs with this ticket, in contrast to the SVR Dundee - Stockport route Lancaster which carries restriction code 8A prohibiting break of outward journey.

At Crewe you would immediately start your return journey at 1811 and break this journey at Wilmslow. This is a Permitted Route with a £91.30 SVR Dundee - Crewe route Carlisle ticket using map combinations FD+NW+MS or GA+NW+MS. This is in contrast with a £91.30 SVR Dundee - Wilmslow route Lancaster ticket, where hairyhandedfool has pointed out above that this is not a Permitted Route.

Resuming your return journey at Wilmslow, you would not be allowed to double back via Crewe but would need to return via Manchester.

Thanks for raising an interesting query, which is an very good demonstration of the inconsistent nature of the Routeing Guide.

 

[DJ737]

G'day there

Advance tickets are available dep Dundee Wednesday / Wilmslow Thursday for GBP 26.50 each way route Manchester, Why do want to avoid Manchester?

Cheers
DJ737
Melbourne, Australia

 

[passivepassion]

Thanks everyone for all advice. The DEE-CRE via CAR option seems to suit me best. I don't mind going via Manchester on the return leg as time is not as tight as the outward journey.

On another note, I tried searching for the same journey but starting from EDB/GLC, which I believe are routeing points en-route if starting from DEE. The journey planner showed available fares for the route via CRE (e.g. 1452dep from EDB or 1600dep from GLC) @£78.40/£80.20 off-peak return respectively. How could a route be valid starting from these routeing points in the central belt but not valid if starting further north through these routeing points?! It is simply too difficult to understand...

Re: yorkie & rail-britain; Since I'm likely to expense the travel, I think I'll simply stick to a return ticket to avoid complications. But thanks for the splitting suggestions; useful for future reference.

Re: DJ737; Not against going via MAN (think I'll need to go through Manchester on my return leg anyway), but the journey going via CRE is 30mins quicker even though the mileage is higher. I am considering only having an afternoon off-work for my outward travel, so a 1334 departure is much better than a 1234 departure which takes longer and gives me less time to get from work to the station...

 

[rail-britain]

Re: yorkie & rail-britain; Since I'm likely to expense the travel, I think I'll simply stick to a return ticket to avoid complications. But thanks for the splitting suggestions; useful for future reference

I do this all the time, which then allows me to travel First Class for the same price (or often less) as Standard Class would have cost me
I then get one receipt for all the tickets purchased, it just simply states "Rail tickets - numerous - one passenger"

 

[yorkie]

Re: DJ737; Not against going via MAN (think I'll need to go through Manchester on my return leg anyway), but the journey going via CRE is 30mins quicker even though the mileage is higher. I am considering only having an afternoon off-work for my outward travel, so a 1334 departure is much better than a 1234 departure which takes longer and gives me less time to get from work to the station...

It's 20 minutes. If you are worried, ask the guard if it's OK to change at Crewe, I bet they say yes. If not, it's only a 20-minute penalty via Manchester (but less comfortable and probably involves a Pacer!)

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....On another note, I tried searching for the same journey but starting from EDB/GLC, which I believe are routeing points en-route if starting from DEE. The journey planner showed available fares for the route via CRE (e.g. 1452dep from EDB or 1600dep from GLC) @£78.40/£80.20 off-peak return respectively. How could a route be valid starting from these routeing points in the central belt but not valid if starting further north through these routeing points?! It is simply too difficult to understand....

In the original Routeing Guide (1996), there were fewer Routeing Points and fewer maps, making it a much simpler document to use, even for the inexperienced user.

In that Guide, Dundee came under Edinburgh (or Aberdeen/Perth) and Wilmslow came under Crewe (or Manchester/Stockport/Stoke-on-Trent) meaning your 1334 train would almost certainly have been perfectly valid.

When it was put online, someone decided to change it, many more routeing points appeared, many more maps, and many more inconsistencies. At some point in the process Dundee and Wilmslow both became routeing points. Stupid routes appeared through the changes (Carlisle-Newcastle springs to mind) and this seems to be another example where it is perfectly fine to circle your destination before reaching it, yet prevents a previously valid route that would avoid the need to do so.