Dumfries/Galloway reopenings feasible?

[backontrack]

Would a new Edinburgh-Carstairs-Carlisle service run by Scotrail, with more stops, be feasible? It could reopen Beattock as 'Moffat Parkway', Symington (to serve Biggar) and Abington, (possibly Ecclefechan too) as well as giving more services to Lockerbie.

If just Beattock was to reopen then it could be slotted in to the TPE service.

As well as this, there have been calls to reopen stations at Thornhill/Closeburn and at Glenluce/Dunragit. What would be the logistics of these?

 

[edwin_m]

Glasgow or Edinburgh to Carlisle is a Transport Scotland aspiration, but with the amount of freight using the WCML it would be pretty difficult to provide without significant extra infrastructure.

 

[muddythefish]

Glasgow or Edinburgh to Carlisle is a Transport Scotland aspiration, but with the amount of freight using the WCML it would be pretty difficult to provide without significant extra infrastructure.

Really ? There can't be much more than 1 freight per hour each way through Beattock.

 

[Suraggu]

Its a shame the idea of Class 380's working a Edinburgh -Newcastle Semi Fast never came to fruition.

 

[Altnabreac]

Would a new Edinburgh-Carstairs-Carlisle service run by Scotrail, with more stops, be feasible? It could reopen Beattock as 'Moffat Parkway', Symington (to serve Biggar) and Abington, (possibly Ecclefechan too) as well as giving more services to Lockerbie.

If just Beattock was to reopen then it could be slotted in to the TPE service.

As well as this, there have been calls to reopen stations at Thornhill/Closeburn and at Glenluce/Dunragit. What would be the logistics of these?

Dumfries and Galloway Council / SWESTrans have proposed some of these reopenings (not Abingdon / Symington as they are in South Lanarkshire.

SWESTrans minutes from May this year list the priority ordering of a potential Scottish Stations Fund bid as:
1 Stranraer Station refurbishment
2 (Joint) Thornhill and Eastriggs new stations
4 Dunragit / Glenluce new station
5 Beattock / Moffat new station
http://www.swestrans.org.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=14224&p=0

I'd say that reflects fairly reasonably the relative likelihood of positive business cases being found for reopening although I might have ranked Eastriggs above Thornhill.

More details are promised in the September minutes possibly including an initial feasibility study.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Its a shame the idea of Class 380's working a Edinburgh -Newcastle Semi Fast never came to fruition.

It's a priced option in the Scotrail ITT to run semi fasts to Berwick with bidders invited to investigate potential savings by combining services with those in Northumberland.

We may see some movement on this with the new Franchise announcement. 2 difficulties in through trains are the short platforms at Cramlington and a lack of electrification to the Metrocentre, both of which potentially restrict option of combining Chathill / Morpeth services with a new semi fast.

 

[edwin_m]

Really ? There can't be much more than 1 freight per hour each way through Beattock.

The problem here is speed difference between the trains. The three passenger trains each hour follow each other quite closely so that the rest of the hour is available for the freight to get as far as it can before it is overtaken by the next group of passenger trains. For example tomorrow morning Preston to Carlisle trains arrive Carlisle at 1146, 1200, 1205 and then not until 1246, and all of these use the WCML at least as far as Carstairs. Unless an extra train can be fitted within that 20min window it will erode the capacity available for freight.

On top of all that, freight on the northern WCML is forecast to grow significantly - it is probably limited by available capacity now and is certainly likely to be in the futrue.

 

[Suraggu]

Dumfries and Galloway Council / SWESTrans have proposed some of these reopenings (not Abingdon / Symington as they are in South Lanarkshire.

SWESTrans minutes from May this year list the priority ordering of a potential Scottish Stations Fund bid as:
1 Stranraer Station refurbishment
2 (Joint) Thornhill and Eastriggs new stations
4 Dunragit / Glenluce new station
5 Beattock / Moffat new station
http://www.swestrans.org.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=14224&p=0

I'd say that reflects fairly reasonably the relative likelihood of positive business cases being found for reopening although I might have ranked Eastriggs above Thornhill.

More details are promised in the September minutes possibly including an initial feasibility study.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


It's a priced option in the Scotrail ITT to run semi fasts to Berwick with bidders invited to investigate potential savings by combining services with those in Northumberland.

We may see some movement on this with the new Franchise announcement. 2 difficulties in through trains are the short platforms at Cramlington and a lack of electrification to the Metrocentre, both of which potentially restrict option of combining Chathill / Morpeth services with a new semi fast.

I cant see the Metrocentre being a massive issue to be honest, Cramlington could squeeze a 3 car in but is it a 2 car platform. Stations like Chathill/Ackington wouldn't produce wouldn't produce a massive increase in patronage with say a hourly semi fast. Places like alnmouth would grow as would Berwick and Morpeth, I could see bigger passenger numbers within 12 months at those stations with a new semi fast and that would then help speed up some of EC/XC services being able to omit stops.

 

[Altnabreac]

The problem here is speed difference between the trains. The three passenger trains each hour follow each other quite closely so that the rest of the hour is available for the freight to get as far as it can before it is overtaken by the next group of passenger trains. For example tomorrow morning Preston to Carlisle trains arrive Carlisle at 1146, 1200, 1205 and then not until 1246, and all of these use the WCML at least as far as Carstairs. Unless an extra train can be fitted within that 20min window it will erode the capacity available for freight.

On top of all that, freight on the northern WCML is forecast to grow significantly - it is probably limited by available capacity now and is certainly likely to be in the futrue.

Indeed Freight capacity on the northern WCML but especially between Carlisle and Carstairs is one of the significant limiting factors on HSR service patterns. Post phase 2 HSR this could be a real bottleneck on the network without additional local services.

I suspect Beattock or Symington reopenings would need to await HS2 Phase 3 opening to be viable.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I cant see the Metrocentre being a massive issue to be honest, Cramlington could squeeze a 3 car in but is it a 2 car platform. Stations like Chathill/Ackington wouldn't produce wouldn't produce a massive increase in patronage with say a hourly semi fast. Places like alnmouth would grow as would Berwick and Morpeth, I could see bigger passenger numbers within 12 months at those stations with a new semi fast and that would then help speed up some of EC/XC services being able to omit stops.

I could see Pegswood justifying more calls as a Ashington parkway type option and there was some talk of a new Belford station that you'd think would have a reasonable business case.

You'd probably want at least four car platforms so the service could call at Cramlington, Pegswood and maybe Widdrington as well as the new Belford.

Metro Centre could reasonably be dropped as a trade off for the new services but it might upset some users. A short electrification would be even better

Just requires cross border co-operation and meaningful capital and revenue investment by DfT in North East rail services - so it will never happen.

 

[Senex]

If just Beattock was to reopen then it could be slotted in to the TPE service.

Why should the already slow and heavily-loaded Manchester-Scotland services be landed with yet another stop?

By all means re-open stations or open new stations to provide access to railway services to more Scottish communities, but don't do it at the expense of what ought in any rational national communications system to be inter-city operations.

 

[backontrack]

Why should the already slow and heavily-loaded Manchester-Scotland services be landed with yet another stop?

By all means re-open stations or open new stations to provide access to railway services to more Scottish communities, but don't do it at the expense of what ought in any rational national communications system to be inter-city operations.

Well, it's only one station. Do you think it would be worth running an extra service just to serve Beattock and Lockerbie? You'd need more stations on the route to merit such a service. I'd want it to go ahead with more stations - say, Abington, Symington (for Biggar) and Ecclefechan. But with just one station it would make more sense to slot it into an existing service - perhaps alternating with Lockerbie?

Interestingly, it is impossible to travel from Lockerbie to Carstairs (and back) without changing trains.

 

[Altnabreac]

Well, it's only one station. Do you think it would be worth running an extra service just to serve Beattock and Lockerbie? You'd need more stations on the route to merit such a service. I'd want it to go ahead with more stations - say, Abington, Symington (for Biggar) and Ecclefechan. But with just one station it would make more sense to slot it into an existing service - perhaps alternating with Lockerbie?

Interestingly, it is impossible to travel from Lockerbie to Carstairs (and back) without changing trains.

Why would anyone want to travel from Lockerbie to Carstairs? You'd have to be mad!

 

[backontrack]

Why would anyone want to travel from Lockerbie to Carstairs? You'd have to be mad!

Post of the year.

I never said anyone would, but that it was interesting that there are no trains between two adjacent stops on a line.

The last sentence of my post was not to do with the rest of it.