Dubious TrainPal adverts

[island]

• Actively encouraging members of the public to fare-evade:

All or almost all Overground stations are gated though, so if this is an encouragement to fare evade, it's not a very effective one.

 

[jon0844]

All or almost all Overground stations are gated though, so if this is an encouragement to fare evade, it's not a very effective one.

I sometimes feel like the whole of TikTok is about telling people how to commit crime, including people blatantly breaking the law for clout and being somewhat shocked when they occasionally get caught and their videos are used as evidence.

On the one hand, it's great that social media allows criminals to reveal themselves, but on the other, social media is likely responsible for loads more crime because people copy as part of challenges or 'hacks'...

 

[bunnahabhain]

Trainpal appear to be a very dodgy company.

I met one of their representatives a few years ago, before we partnered with an alternative retailer; I was very unimpressed. They just said anything that they thought we wanted to hear, and had very little actual knowledge of UK rail matters.

I was speaking to a fellow passenger this morning who said they had experienced lengthy delays getting refunds, when they had chosen not to travel due to disruption; it is clear to me that skimping on customer service is one way that they are able to spend so much money on marketing and offering gimmicky / misleading discounts.

Without a doubt, they are far worse than trainline. I've had multiple encounters with people who have "bought" a railcard through this app, and then to activate it they need to then buy a ticket using it. Presumably to keep people captive to that specific app. I can only assume they haven't paid the full amount for the railcard so the app is only showing a railcard for tickets bought only through that app.

They're crooks and really need to be gone.

 

[Mainline421]

Without a doubt, they are far worse than trainline. I've had multiple encounters with people who have "bought" a railcard through this app, and then to activate it they need to then buy a ticket using it. Presumably to keep people captive to that specific app. I can only assume they haven't paid the full amount for the railcard so the app is only showing a railcard for tickets bought only through that app.

You only need to buy one ticket to activate it, then you can use it anywhere until it expires obviously. Trainline are much worse and also deliberately hide the option to show a Railcard when you don't buy tickets with them. Although I think it's kind of ridiculous the amount of people who go through lengths just to save £3-5 just once through any third party app then have the inconvenience of having to keep the app and store it in there for a year afterwards. I'll keep carrying a physical Railcard personally.

I don't approve of their marketing, but they're not "crooks," their 'promotions' can genuinely undercut TOCs on occasion and they don't add fees so you're not paying more.

 

[Adam Williams]

Trainline are much worse

When have Trainline ever required additional purchases to "unlock" something the user has already paid for?

 

[Mainline421]

When have Trainline ever required additional purchases to "unlock" something the user has already paid for?

Unless you're planning on immediately using it for a rover or something else that isn't available online there's no loss. Buying Railcards from third parties isn't worth it in my opinion. RDG really should never have allowed them to be tied to third party apps in the first place, seems like a massive own goal.

 

[OscarH]

Buying Railcards from third parties isn't worth it in my opinion. RDG really should never have allowed them to be tied to third party apps in the first place, seems like a massive own goal.

The RDG app/sales flow has hardly been free from problems

 

[redreni]

This is, in my humble opinion, a disgrace. If the ASA can't do anything about this sort of thing, what's the point of it?

Before having a Parliamentary inquiry about Chinese Communist Party lobbying, which is presumably carried out with a view to changing the law, wouldn't a more straightforward measure be to enforce existing laws, so that we don't just have Chinese companies operating - in my personal opinion - in pretty brazen defiance (or possibly ignorance) of our laws?

Is any of this stuff likely to jeopardise TrainPal's status as an accredited retailer, btw? If I were the RDG I would be concerned that this sort of thing might pose a serious reputational risk not just to the retailer concerned, but to whoever endorses them and tells consumers they can trust them through accreditation. I would also be concerned they may be competing unfairly with other accredited retailers, including TOCs (both their online and in-person sales channels).

 

[Adam Williams]

Unless you're planning on immediately using it for a rover or something else that isn't available online there's no loss.

Or you want to e.g. use it with a discount available from a different online retailer, associate it with a PAYG scheme or redeem a partner offer targeted at Railcard holders. Consumers should have the confidence that when they pay for a Railcard, they actually receive it.

Buying Railcards from third parties isn't worth it in my opinion. RDG really should never have allowed them to be tied to third party apps in the first place, seems like a massive own goal.

Given you use a physical one, perhaps you're simply not in the target audience?

Opening it up to third parties allows for innovation and improvement over the basic solution offered by the train operators. It also allows them to differentiate on e.g. the customer support offering they provide.

 

[Mainline421]

Given you use a physical one, perhaps you're simply not in the target audience?

Opening it up to third parties allows for innovation and improvement over the basic solution offered by the train operators. It also allows them to differentiate on e.g. the customer support offering they provide.

As someone who's categorised as Gen Z and regularly needs to travel across the country when in the UK I'd think I'm their target demographic at least.

Third parties should definitely be able to sell Railcards, but digital ones should really have been implemented as a code for the official Railcard app. Tying them to third-party apps just misleads people into thinking they have to use that app and worse, if that app still “accepts” an expired Railcard they assume they can keep using it. Would still be very easy to code "Show Railcard" buttons and considering the Railcard app doesn't sell tickets it's not even competing much.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Without a doubt, they are far worse than trainline. I've had multiple encounters with people who have "bought" a railcard through this app, and then to activate it they need to then buy a ticket using it. Presumably to keep people captive to that specific app. I can only assume they haven't paid the full amount for the railcard so the app is only showing a railcard for tickets bought only through that app.

To be fair to TrainPal (and sister outfit Trip.com which run similar offers), the requirement to buy a ticket through them in order to 'activate' the purchased Railcard is made pretty clear during the 'purchase journey', and likewise in the post-purchase confirmation email - but people just blaze through such screens without paying any attention.

For what it's worth, the subsequent purchase of any train ticket through Trainpal/Trip.com will 'activate' the purchased Railcard - including childrens tickets and other dirt cheap sub-£1 fares. Thereafter one can buy from whomever.

 

[Iggy12a]

To be fair to Trainpal, I bought my Senior Railcard with a big discount applied, and had it fulfilled as a Railcard Redeem Voucher, which is stored in the app. Then on the first occasion I wanted to use the Railcard, I just had to activate it, in the app, with no need to purchase a ticket from them.

 

[Adam Williams]

How odd, the videos in the OP have disappeared

 

[MrJeeves]

How odd, the videos in the OP have disappeared

If only someone had a copy of many dubious videos which they have posted so far...

 

[snail]

I think it's kind of ridiculous the amount of people who go through lengths just to save £3-5 just once through any third party app then have the inconvenience of having to keep the app and store it in there for a year afterwards.

My current TrainPal railcard cost £21 though a Money Saving Expert code, a saving of £14. It's a bit of a faff to find the railcard in the app but will stay loaded if selected when I get on a train. I used to get physical cards but losing one on a relatively short hop to Stratford cost me a tenner to replace. Swings and roundabouts.

 

[MrJeeves]

This has made it into RAIL.

TrainPal accused of encouraging "unlawful behaviour" with social media adverts

Rail Delivery Group investigating after videos described as misleading are produced by online ticket retailer TrainPal.

www.railmagazine.com

Seen by RAIL before being removed, they included claims that passengers should not buy tickets at a station, as they cost up to ten times the price of online purchases.

The videos also suggested that Standard Class customers can travel in First Class areas 30 minutes before a train terminates as “no one will check the tickets or care”, claimed that stations “drop ticket sales at sneaky times”, and encouraged passengers not to have tickets on departure from stations.

Videos routinely claimed there were staff-only discounts of up to 90% off the price of normal tickets, using codes on TrainPal’s website.

The videos have been strongly criticised by the RMT union. A spokesperson said: “These videos encourage passengers to engage in unlawful behaviour to avoid paying for the correct ticket, severely undermining the authority of on-board train staff.

“This is a wholly inappropriate form of marketing which creates false expectations for passengers, could land them in court, and potentially create confrontation with our members on trains and at stations, who are already subject to a record level of assaults on the network.

A spokesperson for the Rail Delivery Group, which is responsible for accrediting third-party retailers, told RAIL: “We are investigating online claims to the contrary at present, and can reassure customers they will find the best fares available through our range of retailers.”

A TrainPal spokesperson initially told RAIL that the Trip.com-owned company “sincerely regret any concern caused, as the content did not meet the standards we expect” from its advertising partners.

 

[redreni]

This has made it into RAIL.

TrainPal accused of encouraging "unlawful behaviour" with social media adverts

Rail Delivery Group investigating after videos described as misleading are produced by online ticket retailer TrainPal.

www.railmagazine.com

'Oh, goodness me, however can those videos have got there!?'

 

[styles]

Given the RDG are investigating, I wonder if there is a risk of their accreditation being suspended?

 

[OscarH]

Given the RDG are investigating, I wonder if there is a risk of their accreditation being suspended?

I would bet large sums on money that that won't happen

 

[Tetchytyke]

Given the RDG are investigating, I wonder if there is a risk of their accreditation being suspended?

I wouldn’t expect so.

It’ll be their affiliates doing the marketing. Whilst I’m sure the affiliates will be broadly told what to say, the use of affiliates gives them enough plausible deniability to avoid serious sanction.

 

[Sealink]

Absolutely, presumably TrainPal set the accounts up and used AI to generate the content whilst no doubt stealing other peoples footage without permission to use as background video. They're also ripping off their own videos. Here's a video from another channel that uses exactly the same script as the first video I linked in my opening post:

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7555083228361772291

This all feels very scummy to me! I suppose though that there's probably little the ASA could do about it if one complained?

Well the problem with the ASA is that their actions are always after the horse has bolted.

I believe they can force a company to send ads to them for pre-approval (that doesn't happen very often. Not even Ryanair had to do that and they were complained about regularly) but I don't know how this works with social media and so-called influencers.

 

[Adam Williams]

Well the problem with the ASA is that their actions are always after the horse has bolted.

I believe they can force a company to send ads to them for pre-approval (that doesn't happen very often. Not even Ryanair had to do that and they were complained about regularly) but I don't know how this works with social media and so-called influencers.

Isn't it entirely voluntary anyway? They have no legislative power. Some companies like those that manage advertising screens or billboards may choose to refuse to accept a job involving a "banned" ad but I haven't seen anything to suggest TikTok would uphold the ASA's rulings in the same way. It's all based on an assumption of companies being decent enough (and wanting to avoid the negative press) to comply voluntarily.

 

[styles]

Isn't it entirely voluntary anyway? They have no legislative power. Some companies like those that manage advertising screens or billboards may choose to refuse to accept a job involving a "banned" ad but I haven't seen anything to suggest TikTok would uphold the ASA's rulings in the same way. It's all based on an assumption of companies being decent enough (and wanting to avoid the negative press) to comply voluntarily.

TikTok can't even uphold complaints of actual Nazi propaganda, sexually explicit underage content, or harassment against individuals. They're certainly not going to successfully enforce an ASA ruling against one company for someone saying just sit in 1st class until a ticket inspector comes then leave for standard class acting all innocent.

The whole platform is a misinformation hellhole.

 

[Adam Williams]

TikTok can't even uphold complaints of actual Nazi propaganda, sexually explicit underage content, or harassment against individuals. They're certainly not going to successfully enforce an ASA ruling against one company for someone saying just sit in 1st class until a ticket inspector comes then leave for standing class acting all innocent.

The whole platform is a misinformation hellhole.

Yeah, I mean I get paid ads on their platform which are clearly criminal in nature (offering £300 to anyone with a valid passport or driving license... I wonder what that could be for). Ad destination is a Telegram group.



It needs effective regulation, or criminals and (in this case) retailers who don't care about the rules will just do whatever they want.

 

[island]

Isn't it entirely voluntary anyway? They have no legislative power. Some companies like those that manage advertising screens or billboards may choose to refuse to accept a job involving a "banned" ad but I haven't seen anything to suggest TikTok would uphold the ASA's rulings in the same way. It's all based on an assumption of companies being decent enough (and wanting to avoid the negative press) to comply voluntarily.

Correct. In theory it can be escalated to CAP who in theory can ask major media providers to refuse further ads from a non-compliant advertiser, but I have serious doubts as to how effective this is.

Yeah, I mean I get paid ads on their platform which are clearly criminal in nature (offering £300 to anyone with a valid passport or driving license... I wonder what that could be for).

This is likely to be people being paid to put their names/identities down as a company director for a company that will then go off and do naughty stuff like scam or tax evasions. For more see this article on LondonCentric.

 

[Sealink]

Isn't it entirely voluntary anyway? They have no legislative power. Some companies like those that manage advertising screens or billboards may choose to refuse to accept a job involving a "banned" ad but I haven't seen anything to suggest TikTok would uphold the ASA's rulings in the same way. It's all based on an assumption of companies being decent enough (and wanting to avoid the negative press) to comply voluntarily.

And the news converge about an advert ban was er, more advertising

 

[800Travel]

I’ve always been skeptical of trip.com/trainpal - glad to see a thread validating my suspicions

 

[Tetchytyke]

This is likely to be people being paid to put their names/identities down as a company director for a company that will then go off and do naughty stuff like scam or tax evasions. For more see this article on LondonCentric.

Not just that, but lots of other types of financial crime. Smurfing is one of the more obvious uses.

It needs effective regulation, or criminals and (in this case) retailers who don't care about the rules will just do whatever they want.

Effective regulation of global companies is essentially impossible. We see it in all types of industries, gambling is one such industry. You can regulate the companies which want to be regulated (and the majority do- it's good for business) but if they don't want to be regulated then they won't be.

The only way social media advertising will change is if social media companies become legally responsible for any financial losses incurred by people responding to advertisements. If Meta had to reimburse anyone who lost money though a scam Facebook or Instagram advert then, suddenly, Meta have an incentive to vet the advertisements properly.

 

[island]

Effective regulation of global companies is essentially impossible.

Disagree. It works well in banking and financial services.

The only way social media advertising will change is if social media companies become legally responsible for any financial losses incurred by people responding to advertisements. If Meta had to reimburse anyone who lost money though a scam Facebook or Instagram advert then, suddenly, Meta have an incentive to vet the advertisements properly.

Agree. Currently these losses fall primarily onto financial services. Which is wrong.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Disagree. It works well in banking and financial services.

It depends. Mainstream banks headquartered in countries signed up to the Basel Accords then yes, definitely. VASPs (Virtual Asset Service Providers) and PSPs (Payment Services Providers), not so much.

There's a reason why USDT (Tether) is now the currency of choice for the world's criminals and there's a reason why the south-east Asian organised crime groups now own their own VASPs and PSPs.

Agree. Currently these losses fall primarily onto financial services. Which is wrong.

...which we then all pay for.

Something needs to happen. Meta very quickly managed to get a handle on the fake videos of Martin Lewis when he sued them. Weird.