Dubious TrainPal adverts

[ainsworth74]

Trainpal seems to be blanketing Social Media with various dubious adverts dressed up as "secret hacks" or "top tip" type videos whilst using accounts which, from their account name, appear to have no connection to TrainPal (but clearly must do). The tips and hacks are often themselves somewhat dubious and often inaccurate.

Here's an example from TikTok:

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7562116499868110102

(Video claims that unsold seats are made available via "hidden channels" at a steep discount which is not available to "ordinary people". In invites people to use a discount code on TrainPal to access these tickets)

That channel has several examples of this:

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7559931931031358742

(Video claims to have exposed how to save money on GB tickets by using "hidden ways" via a discount code on TrainPal)

Or another channel with very similar content:

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7553991345124216086

(Video claims that there are secret rules which if you don't ask staff won't tell you about. It suggests going first class with Avanti as "staff come around straight away to ask about drinks and food" and that the " menu is generous with unlimited drinks and snacks" before going onto tell you to use a discount code on TrainPal to access "internal discount fares")

Again plenty of other similar videos on that channel as well.

TrainPal seems to bombarding social media with this sort of content which is videos dressed up as offering tips and tricks (which are often anything but) and then pivoting into an advert for their own service and suggesting that they have access to "hidden channels" which allow them to access mega cheap fares (the videos suggest a 90% discount from the images shown).

Surely this is all incredibly dubious?

 

[yorkie]

Trainpal appear to be a very dodgy company.

I met one of their representatives a few years ago, before we partnered with an alternative retailer; I was very unimpressed. They just said anything that they thought we wanted to hear, and had very little actual knowledge of UK rail matters.

I was speaking to a fellow passenger this morning who said they had experienced lengthy delays getting refunds, when they had chosen not to travel due to disruption; it is clear to me that skimping on customer service is one way that they are able to spend so much money on marketing and offering gimmicky / misleading discounts.

 

[AlterEgo]

Both those channels are entirely AI. Those aren't real people.

 

[ainsworth74]

Both those channels are entirely AI. Those aren't real people.

Absolutely, presumably TrainPal set the accounts up and used AI to generate the content whilst no doubt stealing other peoples footage without permission to use as background video. They're also ripping off their own videos. Here's a video from another channel that uses exactly the same script as the first video I linked in my opening post:

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7555083228361772291

This all feels very scummy to me! I suppose though that there's probably little the ASA could do about it if one complained?

 

[MrJeeves]

Both those channels are entirely AI. Those aren't real people.

I wouldn't describe it as AI, but someone using text to speech software, combining it with random clips of trains, and publishing the resultant "slop" en masse.

And taking stock images for the profile pictures, of course.

Other videos published by similar accounts showcase a real person, which one might guess might be producing these videos (either with automated tools, or manually).

 

[island]

This all feels very scummy to me! I suppose though that there's probably little the ASA could do about it if one complained?

They can order the ads banned, although they don’t have a lot of teeth.

I think they would fail the requirement for ads to be readily identifiable as ads.

 

[yorkie]

The rules, and arguably the ASA itself, are not really fit for purpose.

Also, do companies such as Trainpal perhaps get away with it more easily due to being based in China, where might be less accountability?

How on earth Trainpal pass accreditation is a mystery; it's so buggy.

Misleading customers should also be an accreditation fail, however I think accreditation is more about fussing over Lennon entries and that sort of thing than anything customers would care about!

 

[Gwr12345]

This all feels very scummy to me! I suppose though that there's probably little the ASA could do about it if one complained?

I have complained to the ASA about Trainpal's ads before. The response was a fob off, something like I needed a screenshot despite the fact I had given them the ad link

 

[benk1342]

I would put their promotion of the TrainPal Card purporting to offer 20% off all tickets in this category as well. When you actually click the Buy button it says coming soon. I will be surprised if it ever launches.

 

[m0ffy]

They’re cut from the same cloth as their stablemate, trip[dot]com. A company that completely refused my request to change a ticket in a way explicitly allowed by NR conditions.

 

[yorkie]

I would put their promotion of the TrainPal Card purporting to offer 20% off all tickets in this category as well. When you actually click the Buy button it says coming soon. I will be surprised if it ever launches.

Quite.

Back in May 2018, they claimed they would "surpass Trainsplit in 6 months". If they achieve that by next month, they would 'only' be 7 years late. However, I am confident they will never achieve it. The bold claim is quoted below:

As a startup team, we still have a long way to go. we develop the split technology by ourselves instead of using any third parties. Obviously our split ticketing function is not perfect, but we are keeping optimizing it. And it is also a reason that we do not charge any service fees for split ticketing. We believe that our split technology will surpass TrainSplit within 6 months since we have a group of excellent scientists and programmers studying it. Anyway, thanks for sharing your opinions.

I don't think the "excellent scientists and programmers" are based in the UK, so are unlikely to fully understand the nuances of the UK railway ticketing system.

They don't even understand the basics, let alone the nuances.

 

[Egg Centric]

Given the fairly pointless outcome of the ASA with Trainline, where they ignore the many actual problems and went after them for silly things I don't see any point in referreal as such, nor is one (ulitmately) state owned Chinese company going to be massively bothered about the misdeed of another (ultimately) state owned Chinese company.

It seems to me the accreditation angle is the one to maybe go for. Although I suspect that that one won't work eitehr?

 

[Joe Paxton]

Given the fairly pointless outcome of the ASA with Trainline, where they ignore the many actual problems and went after them for silly things I don't see any point in referreal as such, nor is one (ulitmately) state owned Chinese company going to be massively bothered about the misdeed of another (ultimately) state owned Chinese company.

?

I am muddled about your reference to two Chinese companies? The ASA is obviously not a Chinese company!

Also, whilst the Chinese state undoubtedly has a different approach and philosophy regarding commercial entities within China, just saying that the Trip.com group is ultimately state owned is both lazy and factually wrong - it's listed on both the NASDAQ in New York and on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange.

 

[island]

I have complained to the ASA about Trainpal's ads before. The response was a fob off, something like I needed a screenshot despite the fact I had given them the ad link

Yes, that's consistent with my ASA experiences. Others include repeatedly being asked "do you work for a competitor" and getting other queries with infeasibly short response deadlines and wording of "if we do not hear back from you by [date] we will assume you no longer wish to pursue this complaint".

 

[Egg Centric]

?

I am muddled about your reference to two Chinese companies? The ASA is obviously not a Chinese company!

Also, whilst the Chinese state undoubtedly has a different approach and philosophy regarding commercial entities within China, just saying that the Trip.com group is ultimately state owned is both lazy and factually wrong - it's listed on both the NASDAQ in New York and on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange.

I'm referring to TikTok.

You're right about ownership. A better term might be "controlled". Ultimately all the large Chinese enterprises (and it is one, wherever the shares are listed) are going to do what they're told by the communist party. It never ends well for those who don't toe the line...

 

[Adam Williams]

The problems I have with the video content they have produced:

• Actively encouraging members of the public to fare-evade:

Turns out trains have some unwritten rules and if you don't ask, staff usually won't tell you.

Especially the last one!

Firstly, there's actually an invisible tube in London, where ticket checks are super rare. It's the London Overground...

• Various, repeated lies about selling tickets "usually reserved for staff", when TrainPal's retail license does not permit them to sell PRIV tickets (and if it did, it would not be to the general public). If viewers actually believe this nonsense, then at best this would appear to be encouraging people to travel on discounted tickets they do not have a right-to-use.

• Various misrepresentations as to how ticket refunds work, and a suggestion to reschedule "17 days later to avoid the fee"

• A video which appeared to suggest screaming children should be reported to BTP to be removed from the train, followed by an advert for TrainPal's ticket prices

Clearly, it falls short of the standard I think most members of the public expect from a licensed, accredited third-party retailer. My personal view is that it brings the entire sector into disrepute.

 

[Robbouk]

Out of interest, what are these discounted tickets they claim to sell? Is TrainPal paying for them and effectively subsidising them for the end user or do they just not exist?

 

[ainsworth74]

Out of interest, what are these discounted tickets they claim to sell? Is TrainPal paying for them and effectively subsidising them for the end user or do they just not exist?

Whilst I've not tried myself, from what I've seen elsewhere in reality they don't actually exist. Or at least there's plenty of reports of people not finding the promised massive discounts.

Actively encouraging members of the public to fare-evade:

Yes I probably should have linked that video in my opening post as well. That was a proper jaw dropper. Why mention that at all unless you trying to encourage fare evasion?!

 

[MrJeeves]

Out of interest, what are these discounted tickets they claim to sell? Is TrainPal paying for them and effectively subsidising them for the end user or do they just not exist?

Typically a 1-2% blanket discount which is funded by the retailer. At least that's all I ever get when trying these codes in their app.

 

[Cloudrak]

All AI slop

 

[Ellis101]

Considering this is all AI generated I assume these might be referral codes that somebody is lying about to get TrainPal discounts themselves, probably not TrainPal themselves.

 

[Adam Williams]

Semi-related Reddit thread about how the r/uktrains subreddit has dealt with an influx of TrainPal astroturfing: https://reddit.com/r/uktrains/comments/1nuuz1x/advertising_trainpal_is_and_always_has_been/

 

[MrJeeves]

Considering this is all AI generated I assume these might be referral codes that somebody is lying about to get TrainPal discounts themselves, probably not TrainPal themselves.

I have it on very good authority that the videos are from Trainpal, or an organisation which Trainpal pays to create them.

 

[Joe Paxton]

I admit that for a few years now I have held my nose and taken advantage of one of the not insignificant discounts for buying a Digital Railcard from Trip.com, and (just about) tolerated its shonky app to display said Railcard. I haven't been inspired to give them any other business as the whole operation feels like walking into a casino foyer with oodles of flashing lights, bells and whistles and a plethora of rather suspect 'offers'. (My justification to myself for doing so was that I was taking advantage of a seemingly well capitalised company that was offering what I assume has to be a loss-leader.)

But this stuff stinks. Time to stump up the extra few quid and buy my Railcard from a proper retailer! (Not that Trip.com will notice my solitary protest of course!)

 

[Mainline421]

Out of interest, what are these discounted tickets they claim to sell? Is TrainPal paying for them and effectively subsidising them for the end user or do they just not exist?

Yep, they sell tickets at a loss via their various coupons, as they admit in the TikToks if you listen carefully (although that's clearly not where they want you to think the savings come from). I honestly don't think they're that bad compared to retailers like Trainline, at least they can save you money on occasion rather than charging extra.

 

[PaulJ]

Absolutely awful app too. As an onboard manager, I know as soon as a passenger opens the app that I’m going to be there 5 minutes whilst they struggle to find their tickets and railcards amid all the spammy adverts as well. I could look after 20 other passengers in the time it takes for the TrainPal online ticket to eventually appear!

 

[Krokodil]

Absolutely awful app too. As an onboard manager, I know as soon as a passenger opens the app that I’m going to be there 5 minutes whilst they struggle to find their tickets and railcards amid all the spammy adverts as well. I could look after 20 other passengers in the time it takes for the TrainPal online ticket to eventually appear!

It's particularly popular among tourists too, so you end up having to work it out in Spanish for them, despite not knowing a word yourself

 

[ThrowAway10101]

I'm going to add a counterpoint. I currently use trainpal instead of trainline / trainsplit due to some discounts as well as no booking fees. Pulling up the tickets isn't hard at all (unless you are at the mercy of wifi / data on the train) and easy to transfer onto apple wallet. Though it does sometimes sign me out for no reason. The tree planting feature is cool if real and i like the map of journeys taken.

But like trip / temu the promotions they run are weird and a waste of time if not annoying. I'm not referring people constantly.

 

[styles]

The marketing, the app experience, etc remind me of Temu, whose in-app promos and social media adverts from astroturfing accounts are also highly dubious.

 

[jon0844]

The marketing, the app experience, etc remind me of Temu, whose in-app promos and social media adverts from astroturfing accounts are also highly dubious.

Different codes mean they're able to monitor which adverts are working most effectively, and if they are produced by third-parties acting as agents then they can earn a commission too.