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Drunks Causing Issues on Trains

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Crossover

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I have recently seen a couple of issues caused by drunks trying to board/on board services

One was at Manchester Picc and a late Saturday evening ATW service to Shrewsbury - the last one of the evening I believe. Standing up on the bridge at the station, I was watching some services depart before my service home.
First of all of course was the despatchers whistle and the mad dash of those further up the platform (there was a Northern unit at the concourse end), who the staff waited for. One jumped on at one of the front doors (don't ask) just as the door was shutting and it jammed part shut.

The guard came down, gave it a push to shut it and get interlock, and give a stern point at the plonker who had caused it.

In the meantime, we (I was with another forum member at the time) watched some people hop on to the back - what we originally thought to be the back passenger door. It soon became clear that this wasn't the case, and a short while later, two people were removed from the back cab. With the guard by now appearing quite animated and the despatcher keeping well out of the way, we wondered why he wasn't just going. Disappearing back into the cab, another little while and a third bloke was ejected from the cab, at which point the train was locked up and departed without them!

Most recently, on the 2242 from Piccadilly towards York last Saturday, I was in the section of the 185 between First and the (front in this case) cab. All was fine until Stalybridge when a load of drunks piled on into the area where I was, heading to Huddersfield. There were about 8 of them and proceeded to start mucking around with the accessible toilet door and generally making a lot of noise. The long and short was throwing each other into the toilet space, preventing the door from opening/closing (forcibly, not always with the buttons) and such like, to the point that by the time anyone else needed it, it wouldn't shut at all and had to be held shut. It ended up being that the lock handle was also turned while the door was open too!

Thankfully they left at Huddersfield and the door attempted to shut, fully shut, then reopened, then did the same thing slowly. I thought it may have re-learnt its positions but any attempt to shut did the same thing...it was pretty much goosed! Some other passengers came down and I advised them of the issue and to use the other one...to be told it was out of order too!

In the end, for the remainder of my journey to the next stop, a bit of teamwork with one person jamming their foot against the door to prevent it opening (despite its best efforts) was the only resolution to the problem.

On that occasion, on leaving the train, the driver was leaning out so I let him know that the drunks had broken the front facility through their stupidity (I thought it may be flashing up on the computer system), which I said he would have likely heard their antics too. He thanked me for letting him know and that it would have to stay like that until it went into service "in 20-30 miles" (aka York). He summed it up that it was just vandalism.

My cynical side tells me that since they all piled out of the pub, these passengers were possibly ticketless too :-x

Anyone else seen any interesting things whilst out and about on the railways?
 
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High Dyke

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Last year had a gentleman trespassing at a station. The train duly arrived and after i had raised the crossing barriers i went to the other end of the box to witness the chap crossing from one platform to the other and stand on the track behind the train. I made my way down to the man by which time the train guard had already had a few words with him. After convincing him to get onto the platform the guard then refused to allow the chap to travel. By now i had returned to the box again and dealt with the train departure.

About 5 minutes later there was a knock at the door and there was said gentleman, now trespassing again to get to the box, wanting to report the train guard and did i have his details. I apologised i didn't and he would need to speak to the TOC about being refused travel. He then asked for my name, which i freely gave - also advising him of my manager's name. In return i asked him for his details, explaining i needed it for my records - which he freely gave. Little did he guess it was so i could advise BTP. After this exchange i then escorted him back to the public part of the station.

The reason he trespassed in the first place was that he "didn't know how long the level crossing barriers would be closed and he needed to catch the train."
 

34D

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In the meantime, we (I was with another forum member at the time) watched some people hop on to the back - what we originally thought to be the back passenger door. It soon became clear that this wasn't the case, and a short while later, two people were removed from the back cab. With the guard by now appearing quite animated and the despatcher keeping well out of the way, we wondered why he wasn't just going. Disappearing back into the cab, another little while and a third bloke was ejected from the cab, at which point the train was locked up and departed without them!

This will be a class 150/2 I expect. That door immediately behind the cab at each end is built as a passenger door, and when operating as a 4 car set (as an inner cab) will still function as a passenger door.

Unions however wanted the guard to have his own vestibule, so when they were a couple of years old 'private' was painted onto the outside and the electrics were altered.

I don't agree with it, personally.

I also think it is disgraceful to eject passengers in this manner and then leave them behind - whether they've had a drink or not.

Let us not forget that the main USP of trains and buses is that passengers can go have a drink then not worry about drinkdriving.
 

David Barrett

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Let us not forget that the main USP of trains and buses is that passengers can go have a drink then not worry about drinkdriving.

There is nothing wrong with enjoying a drink and I have no argument against this even though I do not partake myself; drunkeness is, however, a different matter altogether in my experience.
 
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Greenback

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There is nothing wrong with enjoying a drink and I have no argument against this even though I do not partake myself; drunkeness is however a different matter altogether in my experience.

I see quite a few people on evening services who have enjoyed a drink or two (sometimes myself included) but very few that I would consider drunks.

Now, if I was travel in other areas, and on later trains than 2345, my view may be different. But as it is, I mostly see people who are happy and in high spirits, not wreakers of mayhem oblivious to all reasonable standards of behaviour.

There are exceptions, though, including trains out of Cardiff after a Wales rugby match.
 

DarloRich

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are these people really drunks or are they just people who have been for a night out, had a good time and a few drinks and are traveling home in high spirits at a fairly early hour?

To the Op - I also bet you didn't challenge them about their behavior did you?
 

sarahj

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When you been assulted by a group when all you asked them was to calm it down as one had his pants off, you sometimes see it as a little more than just high jinx.

99.9% are ok, just a little bit tipsy, but for that 0.1% it can get a bit tireing, esp when by law we have a duty of care towards them. I've saved some from major injury, just to get a mouth full of abuse.

On one after midnight train,after I'd just got the train to do an emergency stop to stop a pass from falling down the side of the train, he said. 'Southern can suck my c**k'. My reply, 'well sir, you have to have one before we can do that'. His mate then dragged him off the platform.
 
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DarloRich

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I bet not! That would not be a course of action I'd recommend, at least not when there's so many of them!

surely though if they are causing you such angst you should challenge their behavior? I am not saying wade in and start throwing punches about all i am saying is draw their attention to the fact that their behavior is unacceptable and that they should stop.

For instance, last Saturday I was on a Virgin train from Manchester to MK. It was the 1935 departure. Man Utd had been playing at home and lots of people ( mainly middle aged blokes i should say!) had been drinking. Some were very drunk.

One guy was so drunk he couldn't walk properly. He had lost his mates and i have no idea if he wanted to go to London or not - i doubt he did! He got on the train, signing, shouting and swearing. He kind of walked down the carriage and collapsed into a bay of seats and passed out for bit. He got up carried on down the train making comments about women and being a bit of an idiot. He went into first class from which he was ejected quite quickly and came and sat in our carriage.

I asked him politely twice to calm himself down as their were children on the train and his language and demeanor wasn't appropriate. He essentially told me to do one. I then twittered virgin and the BTP, found the guard and informed her of the situation who arranged for officers to get on at Stoke and remove him.

or I could have just sat there tutted, said what a terrible oik he was and done nothing, leaving the problem for someone else.
 
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LowLevel

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This will be a class 150/2 I expect. That door immediately behind the cab at each end is built as a passenger door, and when operating as a 4 car set (as an inner cab) will still function as a passenger door.

Unions however wanted the guard to have his own vestibule, so when they were a couple of years old 'private' was painted onto the outside and the electrics were altered.

I don't agree with it, personally.

I also think it is disgraceful to eject passengers in this manner and then leave them behind - whether they've had a drink or not.

Let us not forget that the main USP of trains and buses is that passengers can go have a drink then not worry about drinkdriving.

More likely to have invited themselves in via the cab door of a 175 I'd have said!
 

ainsworth74

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I asked him politely twice to calm himself down as their were children on the train and his language and demeanor wasn't appropriate. He essentially told me to do one. I then twittered virgin and the BTP, found the guard and informed her of the situation who arranged for officers to get on at Stoke and remove him.

or I could have just sat there tutted, said what a terrible oik he was and done nothing, leaving the problem for someone else.

There is a significant difference however between confronting one very drunk person and a group of eight (such as mentioned in one of the stories by the OP) very drunk people.

You're right if it's just one person by themselves then having a word is probably the right way to go, in most circumstances, but a group of eight?
 

A-driver

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This will be a class 150/2 I expect. That door immediately behind the cab at each end is built as a passenger door, and when operating as a 4 car set (as an inner cab) will still function as a passenger door.

Unions however wanted the guard to have his own vestibule, so when they were a couple of years old 'private' was painted onto the outside and the electrics were altered.

I don't agree with it, personally.

I also think it is disgraceful to eject passengers in this manner and then leave them behind - whether they've had a drink or not.

Let us not forget that the main USP of trains and buses is that passengers can go have a drink then not worry about drinkdriving.

Why don't you agree with a guard having their own vestibule? They need somewhere to store their bag and coat, ticket machine (with money) and on busy services to be able to dispatch the train without being surrounded by passengers.

Even on 317s which are DOO both the front and rear vestibules are out of passenger use with punters only allowed in middle boxes in vestibules.

Can't see how you can possibly view it as a problem...even on a busy service you would only get about 5-6standees into that single vestibule, hardly going to sort overcrowding.

As for kicking drunks off, if they are causing problems, vandalising the train, forcing doors open or, as I suspect happened in this example as the poster stated it took some time, refusing to move out of part if the train they are not allowed in then they quite frankly deserve to be kicked out. Being drunk is not an excuse for being abusive, commiting crimes or unsociable behaviour. Whilst the railway will allow drunks in most states to travel home I see no reason why staff shouldn't refuse travel to those causing problems to others.
 

DarloRich

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There is a significant difference however between confronting one very drunk person and a group of eight (such as mentioned in one of the stories by the OP) very drunk people.

You're right if it's just one person by themselves then having a word is probably the right way to go, in most circumstances, but a group of eight?

Obviously you judge each situation on its merits but i would still be tempted to have a quiet word, at least with a sensible looking member of the party! If that didn't work I would contact the authorities, otherwise the behavior just becomes acceptable.
 

CatfordCat

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I also think it is disgraceful to eject passengers in this manner and then leave them behind - whether they've had a drink or not.

Let us not forget that the main USP of trains and buses is that passengers can go have a drink then not worry about drinkdriving.

It is a difficult decision.

Yes, I agree that public transport offers people a chance to go out for an evening out without thinking about drink-driving.

But if those passengers then are so drunk / unruly that they are going to put the comfort, well-being and safety of other passengers at risk, then should the right of those drunks to travel home over-ride the right of other passengers to a safe journey home?
 

Crossover

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This will be a class 150/2 I expect.

Sorry, I should have said it was a 175 on this one, a 3 car IIRC

I also think it is disgraceful to eject passengers in this manner and then leave them behind - whether they've had a drink or not.

Hmmmm, I see where you are coming from, but by rights, they had missed the train by about 30-45 seconds by this point anyway (the staff were nice in that they didn't lock up 30 seconds early to allow a few stragglers to board) and had there not been an issue with the door further down, I guess the problem wouldn't have occurred in the first place.

To the Op - I also bet you didn't challenge them about their behavior did you?

For the TPE service, as others have said, with 8 of them, I'm not sure you would have done either (and I don't blame the guard in any way for not coming down the train either!). Aside from the ~8 of them, there were only another 4 of us in that part of the carriage, including myself. As it happens I did mention to one of the less boisterous of them that I thought they'd pretty much mullered it now...though it only took 5 mins for them to do such!
In fairness to them, once other passengers came, they largely became helpful in trying to fix what they'd broken, but I think the damage was done!
 

Starmill

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I was particularly amused at this ATW one. The cheek of some people thinking they can jump into the rear cab of a train because they are late and have missed it! It's not like the guard mercilessly closed the doors 30 seconds before, it was about a minute after departure when he pressed close because of a stream of latecomers.

I think the thing was walking half way down the train to get some plonker out of the way of the door (we couldn't be sure, but it looked like he might have nearly caused some damage to it), the guard left the rear cab door open, with the train dispatcher standing up front next to the drivers cab, he left it vulnerable. Would it have been unsafe to close it at this point? Then the train would have gotten interlock with the guard on the platform!

There was a moment, too of "You've been given the RA and got interlock... now close the cab door and GO." - because more people, some rowdier, had come to crowd around the cab door and more were running along the platform. We soon found out why he couldn't go - intruder in the cab! Oh dear :/


I do feel for people in this situation with an "early" last train (i.e. a poor evening service) and a 323 length to run down the platform, but that's no excuse for the train to leave late!

I'd also like to point out that we were up on the footbridge, well out of harms way, but that although I might - and have done - intervene in a few staff-passenger conflicts, I would never ever do this where someone is being refused travel and alcohol is involved to boot. I didn't witness the TPE issue but doubt I'd have done anything at all!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
More likely to have invited themselves in via the cab door of a 175 I'd have said!

Nail -> Head.
 
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DynamicSpirit

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Let us not forget that the main USP of trains and buses is that passengers can go have a drink then not worry about drinkdriving.

While that may be *one* USP of trains and buses, I would be very worried if that was seen as the *main* one. I would hope (and I'm fairly sure) the vast majority of passengers on trains are on trips that don't involve alcohol consumption - otherwise that would be quite a sad reflection on society!

(To be pedantic, not having to worry about drink-driving is not a unique-selling-point of trains anyway - walking and using a taxi both have the same advantage).
 

Tetchytyke

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It isn't just drunks. I watched with amusement at Finsbury Park last week as a load of idiot commuters forced the intermediate cab door open on a 2x313 set because the saloon was full.
 

Hellfire

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From what I witnessed, and as is by all accounts quite normal, the bad behaviour and carnage appears to have been confined to the pitch.

In my experience that's one of the great advantages of rugby over the round ball game
 

Greenback

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Unfortunateyl, international rugby matches in Cardiff are cursed by the 'pink sparkly cowboy hat' affliction, whereby many people only go for a day on the drink and have little real interest in the game being played.

INbstead, they like to dress up in silly hats, have their faces painted, drape themselves in flags and drink for fourteen hours. During the game, they are constantly up and down tot he toilet, texting their mates tot ell them how lush it all is, taking photos, waving at the TV cameras, in fact anything but watch the match.

It is these people that have, gradually, reduced the numbers of real rugby fans attending games and are also the ones that vomit all over the trains on the way home. Spectator swho actually got to rugby games regularly, at pro or lower levels, are now very much in the minority at the Millennium Stadium.
 

Flamingo

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Even my wife has commented that the crowd, both type and atmosphere, changes completely when you come out of the stadium after a game.
 

wensley

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It all seems to depends on the drunks, you get plenty of prats but there are equally those who will chat, laugh and sing for a bit then snooze and drool in a corner until they reach their stop (and hopefully no further!!!).

Having seen far too money drunken idiots tottering back through York after a heavy day drinking you can generally get a feel for if they're going to be an issue. Sometimes there is just a very tense atmosphere which is never a good sign.

Instances of people pratting around (especially pass-coms and holding doors) are all too common, as well as the delay minutes that go with them. Whilst the money they bring in in fares probably adds up to a considerable sum it's a tricky one to see if it's an actual earlier with delays, the need for security staff, difficulties carrying out revenue protection duties.
 

NorthernSpirit

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I've told two teenagers off for p***ing about with the disabled toilet on a 185 in the past, told them that if they broke it and a disabled passenger had to go they wouldn't becuase of their selfish actions. The teenagers soon stopped pratting about.
 

8J

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Orange lodge day attracts drunken trouble causers in Merseyside as seen on BBC Railway programme this year.

Also, the last train from West Kirby to Liverpool Central on A level results day this year caused 507002's interior roof panels to be ripped off in the centre car. That for me is bad and the Carlisle security men were completely outnumbered!
 

ReverendFozz

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Back in 2006 I was going to Skegness for a Clubbing Weekend at Butlins, Grantham Station was absolutely heaving, as this event was mostly 18-24, you can imagine the drunkeness on the platform, one guy declared 'I'm busting for a ****e, I need the bog' I dont think there was a toilet on the platform, the one being in another part of the station, although his mates told him the train would be here in a little over 10 minutes and to hold it in, he was determined he was going to the toilet, he decided to take a shortcut straight across the track and back, he got such a ticking off, BTP was not called and he did not get pinched, but his mates were pretty much ready to disown him right there and then, he was lucky, watching thst horrified me, some of the **** I have witnessed and had to deal with meant this left me absolutely speechless, as there was women, children and families around at the time.

I myself have been very drunk on trains in the past and once or twice been told I would not be sold alcohol on board, to which I would go hide in the loo and drink cans hidden in my coat, but even when drunk, I am more than happy to go sit down and be left to myself, on one occasion I even managed to get home from Cornwall to Durham very heavily intoxicated over 2 days, though it had been suggested that one of my drinks in Truro had been mickey finned, as I all I remembered was waking up at home 2 days after then journey started.

I think, to deal with it, if people are too drunk, then you should not be allowed anywhere near a train or a railway station, I would include myself there as well, but as I rarely ever sup the devils juice these days, I am in no danger of being refused entry onto a train

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Statto

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Orange lodge day attracts drunken trouble causers in Merseyside as seen on BBC Railway programme this year.

Also, the last train from West Kirby to Liverpool Central on A level results day this year caused 507002's interior roof panels to be ripped off in the centre car. That for me is bad and the Carlisle security men were completely outnumbered!

Talking about that series, the West Coast episode, football fans coming back from Wembley, one or two quite drunk, the guard turned the heating up, which did the trick of getting most of the fans to sleep.
 

GodAtum

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If I'm working late Friday/Sat I sometimes stay in the office until the morning to avoid going home with drunks as its unsafe.
 
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