Drunks Banned From The Railway?

[Busaholic]

This programme is the one I believe you are referring to :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wki6GetWUA

It was filmed on Orange Lodge Day in Southport ( July 12th each year).

Its the one day of the year I try to avoid my local station of Southport.

You're absolutely right, it was. Can't say I blame you for wanting to avoid that crowd.

 

[fowler9]

I wouldn't let any on who were clearly too inebriated to act responsibly. Obviously that won't stop every single instance, but it might reduce the numbers causing problems. Why should drunks be allowed to ruin other people's lives [not just on trains] ?

If someone is too inebraited to act responsibly then they are causing a problem. I have no problem with that.
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That Orange Lodge event in Southport is a nightmare on the Northern Line. I have encountered it a couple of times when getting the train from Aigburth to Moorfields over the years. People who looked like they had been drinking since the night before at 8 in the morning and baby buggies with bags of booze hung on the back. Its not just the fact that they are drunk, it wold be hypocritical of me to have a go for that, it is the fact there are kids involved and they are rowdy. They make footy fans look like angels.

 

[TrainfanBen]

A few years ago there was a short TV series showing the work of the BTP. On one of the programmes the BTP and railway staff were shown refusing admission to a station in Liverpool(?) to several totally inebriated potential 'customers', some in fancy dress and almost all being of mature years iirc, telling them to go and get sobered up before they came back. Playing up to the cameras by the BTP? Possibly, but I'd like to think not.

I think somebody uploaded that series to Youtube so it might be worth taking a look if you're interested

EDIT: A previous poster has uploaded a link to a different series to what I thought it was, so if interested, here's another one!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eVI3TaIIf8

 

[380101]

Drunk and agressive I tend to agree with. Drunk and staggering isn't a good state to deny people boarding the train to distant destinations, when you could well be leaving them to sleep on the streets. Scotrail went through a phase (which they seem to have recovered from) of actively taking delight in denying boarding at Glasgow, in several cases leaving vulnerable women stranded on the street.

Drunk and staggering is a perfectly valid reason to refuse travel. As a DOO driver I have had a few people removed from my train (last service) due to their inability to walk safely towards the train and board it. The driver is ultimately responsible for the safety of passengers and I certainly don't want to have to witness someone slipping down the side of my train because they were that drunk they couldn't alight the train safely. Most passenger injuries on the railway are directly attributed to being under the influence of alcohol.

as a side note, there are plenty of night buses to get people out of Glasgow at the weekends so the "vulnerable women stranded on the street" comment is invalid.

 

[47271]

I know that the thread has enjoyed the tradition of drunken Scots, but let's not forget the current blanket Scotrail ban before 10am and after 9pm, and the rather more embarrassing VTEC Aberdeen morning dry departure.

I've seen a difference since the Scotrail ban came in. I often catch the 0915 from Perth to Queen Street, an early Inverurie starter. You'd expect oil workers coming back onshore to be the main offenders, but it used to be groups of women who'd been necking it since Aberdeen. So you get to Glasgow just after 10am and floored with booze. What do you do now, I'd have to go for a lie down? Anyway, all stopped now thank goodness.

Aberdeen does seem to be a common factor in the unsuitable drinking on trains front, hmm.

 

[Dai Corner]

Aberdeen does seem to be a common factor in the unsuitable drinking on trains front, hmm.

Oil workers on leave from the rigs?

 

[theageofthetra]

I would raise the Army v Navy Rugby fixture for the sheer booze related mayhem for 24 hrs either side of k.o in the Twickenham area and on trains to there. Many don't sleep from the Friday night and drink through the vets/ladies match in the morning at Whitton and well into the night before generally collapsing in a residents greenhouse in the area.

Biggest issue recently were female personal hiding strong booze in 'camel backs' under their boobs!

 

[duncanp]

I think Royal Ascot causes a few problems with drunken hooray henrys as well.

I have seen them at Waterloo Station getting tanked up before boarding , and then not having a clue how to work the ticket machine.

 

[MrPIC]

I think the drunk public need to accept responsibility for their actions. If you are too drunk and refused travel then tough. Shouldn't have drunk too much. Rail staff aren't babysitters to drunk people. Too many times have I had to have assistance from Security/BTP in removing drunk sleeping/passed out people from last trains at termini, who then proceed to kick off because they meant to get off 10 stops ago.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

That Orange Lodge event in Southport is a nightmare on the Northern Line. I have encountered it a couple of times when getting the train from Aigburth to Moorfields over the years. People who looked like they had been drinking since the night before at 8 in the morning and baby buggies with bags of booze hung on the back. Its not just the fact that they are drunk, it wold be hypocritical of me to have a go for that, it is the fact there are kids involved and they are rowdy. They make footy fans look like angels.

If the Orange Lodge want to celebrate, knowing of their historical celebrations of the House of Orange, why on earth don't they visit the Netherlands where the House of Orange-Nassau are still the monarchy.

 

[al78]

I think the drunk public need to accept responsibility for their actions.

Not just drunk public, but everybody.
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Drunk and agressive I tend to agree with. Drunk and staggering isn't a good state to deny people boarding the train to distant destinations, when you could well be leaving them to sleep on the streets. Scotrail went through a phase (which they seem to have recovered from) of actively taking delight in denying boarding at Glasgow, in several cases leaving vulnerable women stranded on the street.

I can appreciate what you say here, but part of me thinks that if someone is truly vulnerable then perhaps they shouldn't shove so much alcohol down their throat that they can't function rationally. Alcoholics/mental issues/depression excepted it is really not difficult to just stop before reaching the lack of control stage, I know because I do this all the time.

 

[MrPIC]

Exactly it, we're not social workers we're rail staff. Our concern is the safety of our trains and passengers, and if we can prevent an incident before the person has even boarded a train then I think that's good going!

 

[bramling]

Oil workers on leave from the rigs?

This is something often mentioned on here. Is this an issue with particular services, or can it affect any service round the Aberdeen/Inverness area?

 

[Juniper Driver]

They are normally þΧ§ÈÐ after rugby or Royal Ascot.Royal Ascot can be horrendous sometimes.Generally the rugby crowd are ok.

 

[theageofthetra]

They are normally þΧ§ÈÐ after rugby or Royal Ascot.Royal Ascot can be horrendous sometimes.Generally the rugby crowd are ok.

Agree that Ascot is hideous but remember that many who attend Army v Navy are not rugby supporters and don't see a blade of grass all day (except when face down in a Twickenham residents front garden!)

Things got so bad a few years ago that the fixture was under threat by the RFU coming under pressure from the very influencial Twickenham residents group.

 

[47271]

This is something often mentioned on here. Is this an issue with particular services, or can it affect any service round the Aberdeen/Inverness area?

It's partly oil workers, but in my experience was as likely to be groups of women. Aberdeen trains were always worse than Inverness ones.

The VTEC morning dry train applies only as far as Newcastle, and I believe this is as much to do with hens and stags from Aberdeen as anything else.

The nature of the Aberdeen economy appears to have created a society with an unappealing relationship with alcohol.

 

[Parallel]

I was going to say I think it's wrong, but the only place I ever see the message is on the PIS screens at Cathays, so perhaps it doesn't mention Caerphilly because Cathays isn't on that line?

Sounds right as it was definitely displayed on the boards for Bargoed and Rhymney bound trains when I was at Cardiff Central (and Penarth) yesterday.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

If the Orange Lodge want to celebrate, knowing of their historical celebrations of the House of Orange, why on earth don't they visit the Netherlands where the House of Orange-Nassau are still the monarchy.

Probably because its not hot enough for them, the birds aren't in skimpy bathing tops and its not Spain, Magaluf or Ibiza so the drunks just make life hell locally instead or on the Transpennine Ale Trail.

 

[Bookd]

Agree that Ascot is hideous but remember that many who attend Army v Navy are not rugby supporters and don't see a blade of grass all day (except when face down in a Twickenham residents front garden!)

Things got so bad a few years ago that the fixture was under threat by the RFU coming under pressure from the very influencial Twickenham residents group.

And on this day only the Met Police are backed up around town by the Royal Military Police and the Naval Provost! Anyone not involved is wise to keep clear.

 

[fowler9]

If the Orange Lodge want to celebrate, knowing of their historical celebrations of the House of Orange, why on earth don't they visit the Netherlands where the House of Orange-Nassau are still the monarchy.

I frequently ask myself the same question during Marching Season. It is bizarre seeing a bunch of English people march down the street playing Irish style pipe and drum music waving banners featuring a Dutch bloke. I guess you could claim it is an excellent example of an integrated society. Ha ha.

 

[takno]

It's partly oil workers, but in my experience was as likely to be groups of women. Aberdeen trains were always worse than Inverness ones.

The VTEC morning dry train applies only as far as Newcastle, and I believe this is as much to do with hens and stags from Aberdeen as anything else.

The nature of the Aberdeen economy appears to have created a society with an unappealing relationship with alcohol.

This is the train I've always got south from Edinburgh. There were a few times when there was a separate stag or hen group in pretty much every carriage, which was noisy as hell, but only ever until Newcastle. In that case (and probably most of the others), it's more a case of Aberdeen being far away, and being sat in a tin box for hours with not a lot else to do meaning that folk drink far more than they are used to. Folk with a toxic relationship with alcohol would probably still have been relatively sober by Newcastle.

 

[kkong]

The VTEC morning dry train applies only as far as Newcastle, and I believe this is as much to do with hens and stags from Aberdeen as anything else.

This ban applies on Fridays only and only on the 0952 departure from Aberdeen.

As you say, hen parties are the main culprits.

 

[DarloRich]

It's partly oil workers, but in my experience was as likely to be groups of women. Aberdeen trains were always worse than Inverness ones.

The VTEC morning dry train applies only as far as Newcastle, and I believe this is as much to do with hens and stags from Aberdeen as anything else.

The nature of the Aberdeen economy appears to have created a society with an unappealing relationship with alcohol.

it is a frontier town with lots of cash rich people cutting lose after ( in many cases) a tough job, in harsh conditions, away from home, family and friends and with limited free time.

Who are we to judge?

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Isn't there an element of hypocrisy here in that some companies within the rail industry are happy to promote the sale of alcohol by allowing redundant station buildings to be converted into pubs and the promotion of "rail ale trails" such as the infamous Transpennine one, but then get all stroppy and refuse travel to people who've perhaps had a few too many but are no harm to anyone else?

 

[47271]

it is a frontier town with lots of cash rich people cutting lose after ( in many cases) a tough job, in harsh conditions, away from home, family and friends and with limited free time.

Who are we to judge?

Fair enough, it's that many of the outcomes are unappealing rather than the drinking itself.

Unless being surrounded by drunken Aberdonian hens at 10am is something that appeals to you, to take this particular example.

 

[al78]

it is a frontier town with lots of cash rich people cutting lose after ( in many cases) a tough job, in harsh conditions, away from home, family and friends and with limited free time.

Who are we to judge?

Well a judgement is a form of opinion, and everyone has the right to an opinion.

Having a tough job, in harsh conditions, away from home, friends and family with limited free time (who's decision was it to take such a job?) does not mean it is ok to inflicts costs on others. There are plenty of people out there in as bad if not worse conditions that don't feel the need to get tanked up and lose control.

 

[DarloRich]

Fair enough, it's that many of the outcomes are unappealing rather than the drinking itself.

Unless being surrounded by drunken Aberdonian hens at 10am is something that appeals to you, to take this particular example.

seems like a target rich environment to me - You have to look for the positives

 

[PHILIPE]

Sounds right as it was definitely displayed on the boards for Bargoed and Rhymney bound trains when I was at Cardiff Central (and Penarth) yesterday.

North of Caerphilly and Pontypridd

 

[meridian2]

Isn't there an element of hypocrisy here in that some companies within the rail industry are happy to promote the sale of alcohol by allowing redundant station buildings to be converted into pubs and the promotion of "rail ale trails" such as the infamous Transpennine one, but then get all stroppy and refuse travel to people who've perhaps had a few too many but are no harm to anyone else?

There certainly have been incidents on the transpennine trains and surrounding area, but it's mostly people talking louder than usual having had a few. Older blokes and students seem to dominate.

I've felt more intimidated by hen parties and various supporter groups on regular routes than ale trails.

 

[sk688]

I hope this happens

When I used the LM 1805 Euston Northampton on a Thursday night (1st declassified), in a 350/3, there was a man, visibly drunk, making quite an awkward situation, and intimidating those around him, making Leery comments to the whole train