Drunk depot driver sentenced

[Silverlinky]

Amazed if it's only once in 5 years.

Once in 5 years would be classed as regular in some TOC's!!

 

[bramling]

If, otherwise, the only true random check is so infrequent as to be calculated in 'many years' then I doubt it is a proper deterrent. Surely, a random check for drink or drugs should be at least annual ?

I'd say it's a deterrent in that someone could be checked at any time. Don't forget that most safety-critical staff (*) should generally be visually checked when they book on as well, which could lead to a for-cause test if the manager has any suspicions.

(* although interestingly this can be difficult to apply in practice - easy for a train driver booking on with a supervisor/manager, but not so easy to carry out for a signalman working at a remote signal box).

 

[Robertj21a]

I'd say it's a deterrent in that someone could be checked at any time. Don't forget that most safety-critical staff (*) should generally be visually checked when they book on as well, which could lead to a for-cause test if the manager has any suspicions.

(* although interestingly this can be difficult to apply in practice - easy for a train driver booking on with a supervisor/manager, but not so easy to carry out for a signalman working at a remote signal box).

I totally agree that it's a good deterrent to know that they can be tested at any time - but it immediately loses some of that advantage if it happens so rarely that the odds can be quantified in terms of only once every 5-10 years or so.
Wouldn't the rail staff themselves prefer to see it carried out a bit more often, to retain true credibility ?

 

[ComUtoR]

I totally agree that it's a good deterrent to know that they can be tested at any time - but it immediately loses some of that advantage if it happens so rarely that the odds can be quantified in terms of only once every 5-10 years or so.

Remember you also get tested after an incident and at a medical. You can mess up at any time so that adds to the deterrent. Also, part of the deterrent isn't so much about getting caught. Its about the punishment. Do you risk losing a £50kpa job ? Same with drink driving in your car. The punishment is the greater deterrent and the chance of getting caught is minimal. Adding consequence to the mix and your adding another layer of deterrence.

You also have to add in the human factors. People are generally quite honest and responsible. I also like to think that Railway staff tend to be at the weird end of the spectrum. We tend not to be the type of people who will come in to work the next day with a hangover. We also tend to be the ones who are obsessive with rules and policies etc.

Wouldn't the rail staff themselves prefer to see it carried out a bit more often, to retain true credibility ?

No thanks. I like it the way it is.

My employer trusts me to do my job. I understand that there needs to be checks and balances and the number of people who get caught does give me faith that the system 'works' If I was monitored within an inch; it would create a hostile working environment.

I also trust my colleagues' otherwise I would never get on their trains. There are just as many people will report you if they were suspicious as there are those who will pull you aside and raise their concerns personally. This is also part of the deterrence and protection of a safety conscious environment.

I'd also like to add a 'Nota Bene' of sorts too. We live in an era of social media. It's not been unknown for a Driver to get reported because a member of the public is suspicious of something.

 

[SlimJim1694]

Remember you also get tested after an incident and at a medical

When I've been for medicals they are just testing urine for protein and pouring it away. I've was drugs and alcohol tested at my pre-employment medical but never at a periodic one.

 

[Llanigraham]

When I've been for medicals they are just testing urine for protein and pouring it away. I've was drugs and alcohol tested at my pre-employment medical but never at a periodic one.

At the 2 medicals I had when returning to work from sickness I was breathalised.

 

[Sunset route]

Since the D&A policy has come in I’ve been tested at all my 10 yearly medicals which have now become 3 yearly in the past year, I’ve also had two post incident D&A tests and one random D&A test in my 31 service so far.

 

[Locomacca]

Amazed if it's only once in 5 years.

Im amazed its as much as once in five years, different areas and different depots obviously are not following the same guidelines. My last Nine years in the railway industry zero randoms at any site

 

[Robertj21a]

Im amazed its as much as once in five years, different areas and different depots obviously are not following the same guidelines. My last Nine years in the railway industry zero randoms at any site

Incredible, and worrying.

 

[Locomacca]

Have you reported them?

I started in the eighties like i have said before having beer at lunch was the norm. Obviously things changed and many guys still carried on smoking weed or what ever its called as these guys had done it for years and could not see anything wrong with doing this at home when not on shift. Over the years when rules got changed we had guys sacked for smoking weed whilst working on the bogie line but this was after many times being caught. We knew the guys who did this but when it came to the term of random D&A it was guys picked who the managers never smoked..... and to answer your question I've reported guys for smelling of alcohol and they were sent on rehab courses and i reported a guy for doing and admitting he had done numerous drugs including cocaine just before we started our 6am shift

 

[Silverlinky]

Incredible, and worrying.

I wonder what the law says has to be done. Is there specific legislation that says "you must do this" to a TOC/FOC?

 

[bahnause]

I wonder what the law says has to be done. Is there specific legislation that says "you must do this" to a TOC/FOC?

Or if the law actually allows a random drug test. It wasn't for a long time where I work. Now we have limits for alcohol and THC to be met if you are in a safety critical job. What you do in your private life is upon you, as long as there is no addiction you're fine. But I haven't been tested in nearly 25 years.

 

[bramling]

I totally agree that it's a good deterrent to know that they can be tested at any time - but it immediately loses some of that advantage if it happens so rarely that the odds can be quantified in terms of only once every 5-10 years or so.
Wouldn't the rail staff themselves prefer to see it carried out a bit more often, to retain true credibility ?

Yes and no. Many drivers are quite happy to be tested if it gets them off the trains for a couple of hours - although the way things work people tend to be more likely to get tested when spare. Most places will work on the basis of a list being prepared by HR, and the local management will work through the list in order, but skipping anyone who can’t feasibly be done without causing a delay or cancellation (they may well have to provide evidence of this). It’s not inconceivable that a manager could be on the list as well.

It will be in contracts that anyone disappearing after a test is announced is automatically in breach of contract, although as I’ve described elsewhere this can be an arse in practice as there can be difficulty amassing proof of who said what when.

It’s pretty rare for people to flag up with D&A issues, the industry is generally pretty good at encouraging people to self-report issues and providing support. Having said that, where I am there’s someone about whom it’s a pretty open secret that he’s alcoholic, and the general feeling is a blind eye is turned on account of Masonic connections. Whether that’s actually true or not I couldn’t say.

 

[Locomacca]

Yes and no. Many drivers are quite happy to be tested if it gets them off the trains for a couple of hours - although the way things work people tend to be more likely to get tested when spare. Most places will work on the basis of a list being prepared by HR, and the local management will work through the list in order, but skipping anyone who can’t feasibly be done without causing a delay or cancellation (they may well have to provide evidence of this). It’s not inconceivable that a manager could be on the list as well.

It will be in contracts that anyone disappearing after a test is announced is automatically in breach of contract, although as I’ve described elsewhere this can be an arse in practice as there can be difficulty amassing proof of who said what when.

It’s pretty rare for people to flag up with D&A issues, the industry is generally pretty good at encouraging people to self-report issues and providing support. Having said that, where I am there’s someone about whom it’s a pretty open secret that he’s alcoholic, and the general feeling is a blind eye is turned on account of Masonic connections. Whether that’s actually true or not I couldn’t say.

I totally agree with your masonic quote as this has been going on for a long time, not just the D&A side of things but when it comes to job promotions and vacancies but that's another kettle of fish