DRS fleet update

[Boothby97]

SO could you have a rake of just Mark 2 coaches with a DVT on one end and a TDM fitted loco on the other. Which loco classes could actually do this.

Breaking News
A new XHND pool has been created. Moved to the new pool are 37423 (from XHAC), 37603, 37604, 37605, 37610, 37667 and 37688 (from XHNC).

Thanks, Sam

 

[fgwrich]

SO could you have a rake of just Mark 2 coaches with a DVT on one end and a TDM fitted loco on the other. Which loco classes could actually do this.

Breaking News
A new XHND pool has been created. Moved to the new pool are 37423 (from XHAC), 37603, 37604, 37605, 37610, 37667 and 37688 (from XHNC).

Thanks, Sam

Locos only fitted with the modified TDM system. Ex Scottish 47/7s could do this (of the few that are left), but the TDM system was modified for use with Electrics - 86, 87 & 90s. Scottish 47/7s may be able to work with them, but you'd have to reserect and modify the system first.

So unless you modify the system on the DVT to AAR - Only those locos. They could of course be modified to accept Blue Star / Green Dot, just no ones done this yet.

 

[Rhydgaled]

86, 87 & 90s.

Indeed that's what I've seen posted elsewhere (although 91s have TDM too, perhaps even the class 89). However, I often wonder why go to the trobble of modifying 67s (with remote fire equipment), coaches (with AAR through cables) and DVTs when you could just fit TDM and fire-fighting gear to locos and have them able to work with ANY DVT or DBSO?

 

[Big Chris]

AAR is a more reliable system.

 

[87015]

Locos only fitted with the modified TDM system. Ex Scottish 47/7s could do this (of the few that are left), but the TDM system was modified for use with Electrics - 86, 87 & 90s. Scottish 47/7s may be able to work with them, but you'd have to reserect and modify the system first.

So unless you modify the system on the DVT to AAR - Only those locos. They could of course be modified to accept Blue Star / Green Dot, just no ones done this yet.

47/7s were not TDM fitted, used a RCH system so they couldn't work with an unmodified DVT any more than a 67 or an 08! Although 82101 isn't DRS anyway AFAIK (for a change they haven't decided to buy something with no real use on a whim!) they are presumably just storing it for new owners.

 

[fgwrich]

47/7s were not TDM fitted, used a RCH system so they couldn't work with an unmodified DVT any more than a 67 or an 08! Although 82101 isn't DRS anyway AFAIK (for a change they haven't decided to buy something with no real use on a whim!) they are presumably just storing it for new owners.

Ooops. Sorry, that's me getting confused between DVTs and DBSOs. Although i thaught the Scottish ones were TDM for use with the DBSOs, With the RES ones being RCH?

 

[Rhydgaled]

Ooops. Sorry, that's me getting confused between DVTs and DBSOs. Although i thaught the Scottish ones were TDM for use with the DBSOs, With the RES ones being RCH?

Scottish 47/7s, according to everything I've read on fourms and such, DID have TDM, BUT it was an earlier form of TDM that was never fitted to DVTs and is no longer available on DBSOs (which were changed to use the newer TDM found on electric locos and the few buffer-fitted class 43s).

I'm only stating what I've read, I know nothing myself.

 

[jamieintercity]

37402 and 405 have been reinstated to the XHAC pool and should be moved sometime next week.

They are to be moved tomorrow from barrow hill to crewe

 

[SprinterMan]

Has anyone seen this?

http://railwayherald.com/uknews/class-68-livery-revealed

Direct Rail Services has released pictures of how the new Class 68 locomotives will look.
The livery, depicted on a model, followed the current DRS Compass Style, including some details of a Cumbria map within the compass logo. The first of the new fleet is due to arrive in the UK later this year.

That livery is great, but my god does a 68 look ugly, like a hybrid between a 70, 222 and a 321.

Adam

 

[Boothby97]

Has anyone seen this?

http://railwayherald.com/uknews/class-68-livery-revealed


That livery is great, but my god does a 68 look ugly, like a hybrid between a 70, 222 and a 321.

Adam

Wow, I like to look of that (better than 70)

By the way guys, 37427 is being prepared to be cut up at CF Booths Rotherham and 37402 and 37405 are now at Gresty Bridge!
Update coming soon, but I'll have to prepare it because I'm using the Internet on my iPhone now
Thanks,Sam

 

[The Ham]

There are some details about the loco here:

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...ct-rail-services-reveals-class-68-design.html

Freight and charter train operator Direct Rail Services has unveiled the design of its future UKLight mixed traffic diesel-electric locomotives.

Vossloh España is building 15 locomotives in Valencia under a contract announced in January 2012, with deliveries scheduled to begin towards the end of this year.

To be designated Class 68, the UKLight is based on the EuroLight freight and passenger locomotive family which Vossloh unveiled at InnoTrans 2010. Intended for both freight and passenger operation, the 21·5 tonne axleload Bo-Bo will have a 2 800 kW Caterpillar C175 engine and AC traction equipment supplied by ABB.

Difference from the EuroLight design include a smaller-profile to suit Britain's more restricted loading gauge, a higher top speed of 160 km/h rather than the 140 km/h and an increase in fuel tank capacity from 4 000 litres to 5 000 litres.

 

[Boothby97]

DRS Fleet Update

Locomotives
Number Livery Pool Allocation Notes
20301 DS XHSS ZG
20302 DR XHSS ZG
20303 DR XHNC KM
20304 DR XHSS ZG
20305 DS XHSS ZG
20306 DR XHSS BH
20307 DR XHSS KM
20308 DS XHNC KM
20309 DS XHSS KM
20310 DR XHSS KM
20312 DS XHNC KM
20313 DR XHSS KM
20315 DR XHSS KM
37038 DR XHNC KM
37059 DS XHSS BH
37069 DS XHSS CR (in working order!)
37087 DR XHSS BH
37194 DS XHNC KM
37218 DS XHNC KM
37229 DS XHNC KM
37259 DS XHNC KM
37261 DS XHNC KM
37401 E XHHP BH (for overhaul)
37402 DS XHHP CR
37405 E XHHP CR
37409 DS XHAC KM
37411 G XHHP ZA (sold to CF Booths)
37419 DS XHAC KM
37422 E XHHP KM
37423 DS XHND KM
37425 DS XHAC KM
37510 DS XHSS BH
37601 DS XHNC KM
37602 DS XHNC KM
37603 DS XHND KM
37604 DS XHND KM
37605 DS XHND KM
37606 DS XHNC KM
37607 DS XHNC KM
37608 DS XHNC KM
37609 DS XHNC KM
37610 DS XHND KM
37611 DS XHNC KM
37612 DS XHNC KM
37667 DS XHND KM
37682 DS XHNC KM
37683 DS XHSS ZA (sold to CF Booths)
37688 DS XHND KM
47501 DS XHAC KM
47712 DS XHSS CR
47747 E XHAC CR
47790 VN XHAC KM
47791 DS XHHP BH
47802 DS XHAC KM
47805 DS XHAC KM
47810 DS XHAC KM
47813 DS XHAC KM
47818 DS XHAC KM
47828 DS XHAC KM
47832 VN XHAC KM
47839 RV XHHP ZG
47841 DS XHAC KM
47853 DS XHAC KM
57002 DS XHSS ZG
57003 DS XHCK KM
57004 DS XHCK KM
57007 DS XHCK KM
57008 DS XHCK KM
57009 DS XHCK KM
57010 DS XHSS KM
57011 DS XHCK KM
57012 DS XHSS ZA Undergoing Overhaul
57302 DS XHAC KM
57304 DS XHAC KM
57307 DS XHAC KM
57308 VT XHAC KM
57309 DS XHAC KM
57311 VT XHAC KM
66301 DS XHIM KM
66302 DS XHIM KM
66303 DS XHIM KM
66304 DS XHIM KM
66305 DS XHIM KM
66421 DS XHIM KM
66422 DS XHIM KM
66423 DS XHIM KM
66424 DS XHIM KM
66425 DS XHIM KM
66426 DS XHIM KM
66427 DS XHIM KM
66428 DS XHIM KM
66429 DS XHIM KM
66430 DS XHIM KM
66431 DS XHIM KM
66432 DS XHIM KM
66433 DS XHIM KM
66434 AL XHIM KM

Coaching Stock
Number Livery Operator Allocation
1254 BG BH
3366 BG BH
3374 BG BH
5700 FV BH
5710 FV BH
5810 BG ZG
5901 BG ZK
5919 BG ZK
5971 BG ZG
5995 BG ZK
6001 BG ZG
6008 BG ZG
6046 BG ZK
6064 BG ZK
6117 BG ZG
6122 BG ZG
6173 BG ZK
9488 FV BH
9506 BG SR MH (on loan to ScotRail)
9508 BG BH
9525 BG ZG
9705 AR ZG
9707 AR ZG
17159 DS ZG

New Pool Code
XHND- DRS Network Rail locomotives

Notes
-37402 and 37405 now at Crewe Gresty Bridge
-37427 is now being cut
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'm sorry to announce that 37411 and 37683 are Rotherham bound in the next week!!!!
And 37402 and 37405 are now stored at Crewe GB - in XHHP!
List updated to show this

Thanks, Sam
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
DRS are preparing 37059 and 37069 as shunters at Daventry
And 37229 to leave Kingmoor for Barrow Hilll to give up parts for this!
Thanks, Sam

 

[Phil6219]

Went around Booths on Saturday, was told that they were getting some 37s in as well as some 20s. He didn't say where from though, aside from the rather demic one at KM what could the others be if it's DRS ones for the chop?

37603 was at BH on Saturday too, apparently there for an inspection or something - it was round the back of the HNRC shed.

Phil

 

[Boothby97]

Went around Booths on Saturday, was told that they were getting some 37s in as well as some 20s. He didn't say where from though, aside from the rather demic one at KM what could the others be if it's DRS ones for the chop?

37603 was at BH on Saturday too, apparently there for an inspection or something - it was round the back of the HNRC shed.

Phil

Rumours are that it's 20315 from Kingmoor, 20306 and/or 37087 and/or 47791 from Barrow Hill.
37411 is to be scrapped because of fuel contamination. No hope for the old girl CAERPHILLY CASTLE
Thanks, Sam

 

[sprinterguy]

It’s quite saddening to hear of 37411 going for scrap. I have fond memories of this locomotive when it was a regular hand on the Fort William sleepers and used to see it often on my summer holidays – And more recently when it was a regular fixture on the ATN York to Carlisle loco hauled turns.

As such, it never sat well with me when they painted it green. To me, 37403 is the only “proper” BR green 37/4.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Rumours are that it's 20315 from Kingmoor, 20306 and/or 37087 and/or 47791 from Barrow Hill.

20/3s going for scrap? Gawd, I can remember when they were first released from their refurbishment, and there were only five of them! I feel old…

 

[Boothby97]

Well, the first were 5 were overhauled just before I was born in 1995-1996.
Look its inevitable that some will now be scrapped and it won't be the end. In my opinion the only safe ones are 20311/314 but the rest (excluding 20306/315) could see use on RHTTs
Thanks, Sam

 

[fgwrich]

It's a shame to see the near demic state of 306. Wasnt a bad 20 when it occasionally saw use as a Super Shunter in Eastleigh / had a few small moves out of Eastleigh to Soton Docks and return. Mind you, it was only 4/3 years ago when they were almost all stored in Eastleigh, dosent time fly!

 

[jamieintercity]

i can confirm more locos are going for scrap at Booths in Rotherham in no particular order:

37411
37683
37087
47791
20306
20307
20310
20313
20315

 

[Boothby97]

DRS Fleet Update

Locomotives
Number Livery Pool Allocation Notes
20301 DS XHSS ZG
20302 DR XHSS ZG
20303 DR XHNC KM
20304 DR XHSS ZG
20305 DS XHSS ZG
20306 DR XHSS BH (sold to CF Booths)
20307 DR XHSS KM (sold to CF Booths)
20308 DS XHNC KM
20309 DS XHSS KM
20310 DR XHSS KM (sold to CF Booths)
20312 DS XHNC KM
20313 DR XHSS KM (sold to CF Booths)
20315 DR XHSS KM (sold to CF Booths)
37038 DR XHNC ** (Super shunter at Daventry Int Railfreight Terminal)
37059 DS XHSS BH (for transfer to Daventry)
37069 DS XHSS CR (for transfer to Daventry)
37087 DR XHSS BH (sold to CF Booths)
37194 DS XHNC KM
37218 DS XHNC KM
37229 DS XHNC KM (for transfer to Barrow Hill)
37259 DS XHNC KM
37261 DS XHNC KM
37401 E XHHP BH (for overhaul)
37402 DS XHHP CR (stopped for GSMR and RETB to be fitted)
37405 E XHHP CR (as 37402 and broken - for transfer to Barrow Hill :roll
37409 DS XHAC KM
37411 G XHHP ZA (sold to CF Booths)
37419 DS XHAC KM
37422 E XHHP KM
37423 DS XHND KM
37425 DS XHAC KM
37510 DS XHSS BH
37601 DS XHNC KM
37602 DS XHNC KM
37603 DS XHND KM
37604 DS XHND KM
37605 DS XHND KM
37606 DS XHNC KM
37607 DS XHNC KM
37608 DS XHNC KM
37609 DS XHNC KM
37610 DS XHND KM
37611 DS XHNC KM
37612 DS XHNC KM
37667 DS XHND KM
37682 DS XHNC KM
37683 DS XHSS ZA (sold to CF Booths)
37688 DS XHND KM
47501 DS XHAC KM
47712 DS XHSS CR
47747 E XHAC CR
47790 VN XHAC KM
47791 DS XHHP BH (sold to CF Booths)
47802 DS XHAC KM
47805 DS XHAC KM
47810 DS XHAC KM
47813 DS XHAC KM
47818 DS XHAC KM
47828 DS XHAC KM
47832 VN XHAC KM
47839 RV XHHP ZG
47841 DS XHAC KM
47853 DS XHAC KM
57002 DS XHSS ZG
57003 DS XHCK KM
57004 DS XHCK KM
57007 DS XHCK KM
57008 DS XHCK KM
57009 DS XHCK KM
57010 DS XHSS KM
57011 DS XHCK KM
57012 DS XHSS ZA Undergoing Overhaul
57302 DS XHAC KM
57304 DS XHAC KM
57307 DS XHAC KM - carries "CABLE THEIVES WERE WATCHING YOU" branding
57308 VT XHAC KM
57309 DS XHAC KM
57311 VT XHAC KM
66301 DS XHIM KM
66302 DS XHIM KM
66303 DS XHIM KM
66304 DS XHIM KM
66305 DS XHIM KM
66421 DS XHIM KM
66422 DS XHIM KM
66423 DS XHIM KM
66424 DS XHIM KM
66425 DS XHIM KM
66426 DS XHIM KM
66427 DS XHIM KM
66428 DS XHIM KM
66429 DS XHIM KM
66430 DS XHIM KM
66431 DS XHIM KM
66432 DS XHIM KM
66433 DS XHIM KM
66434 AL XHIM KM

Coaching Stock
Number Livery Operator Allocation
1254 BG BH
3366 BG BH
3374 BG BH
5700 FV BH
5710 FV BH
5810 BG ZG
5901 BG ZK
5919 BG ZK
5971 BG ZG
5995 BG ZK
6001 BG ZG
6008 BG ZG
6046 BG ZK
6064 BG ZK
6117 BG ZG
6122 BG ZG
6173 BG ZK
9488 FV BH
9506 BG SR MH (on loan to ScotRail)
9508 BG BH
9525 BG ZG
9705 AR ZG
9707 AR ZG
17159 DS ZG

Notes
-57307 now carries branding
-37405 to go back to Barrow Hill
-37038 at DIRFT for shunting, 37059 and 37069 to follow
-20306/307/310/313/315, 37087/411/683, 47791 sold to CF Booths
-As for locomotives at CF Booths (Rotherham), 37427 and 47829 are in proccess of being cut. 37406/410/415/416/417/428/696 are still intact with the latest to arrive being 37415 and 37696 from Long Marston today. Also those mentioned above plus *reportedly* 56086 from Washwood Heath are Rotherham bound. Also, all those bound for or at CF Booths Rotherham are ex-DRS except 37415/428/696 (ex-HNRC) and 56086 (ex Europheonix)

Hope that sheds some light on details.
Thanks, Sam
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
37427 reported to have been cut
Thanks, Sam

 

[SprinterMan]

Any idea when 57308 & 57311 will be repainted, and if they will regain their nameplates like 57307 did?

Adam

 

[newbryford]

DRS Fleet Update



Coaching Stock
Number Livery Operator Allocation
1254 BG BH
3366 BG BH
3374 BG BH
5700 FV BH
5710 FV BH
5810 BG ZG
5901 BG ZK
5919 BG ZK
5971 BG ZG
5995 BG ZK
6001 BG ZG
6008 BG ZG
6046 BG ZK
6064 BG ZK
6117 BG ZG
6122 BG ZG
6173 BG ZK
9488 FV BH
9506 BG SR MH (on loan to ScotRail)
9508 BG BH
9525 BG ZG
9705 AR ZG
9707 AR ZG
17159 DS ZG


Thanks, Sam

Do DRS still operate Escort coaches 9419/9428?

Cheers,
Mick

 

[Boothby97]

Do DRS still operate Escort coaches 9419/9428?

Cheers,
Mick

Yes, how did I miss them off
Thanks, Sam
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
20306, 37087 and 47791 which have been sold to CF Booths, Rotherham and currently located at Barrow Hill have all been put on low loaders this afternoon ready for the one way journey to Rotherham!!
Thanks, Sam

 

[jamieintercity]

Yes, how did I miss them off
Thanks, Sam
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
20306, 37087 and 47791 which have been sold to CF Booths, Rotherham and currently located at Barrow Hill have all been put on low loaders this afternoon ready for the one way journey to Rotherham!!
Thanks, Sam

20306, 37087, 47791, 37411 and 37683 were all moved last week and has now been deregistered from the XHHS and XHHP pools

Also whats happened to 20305 and what is the futures regarding to the 37/0s and 37422?

 

[Boothby97]

DRS Fleet Update
17/02/2013

Locomotives
Number Livery Pool Allocation Notes
20301 DS XHSS ZG
20302 DR XHSS ZG
20303 DR XHSS ZG
20304 DR XHSS ZG
20305 DS XHSS CR (located at Crewe Coal Sidings)
20306 DR sold- Located at CF Booths, Rotherham
20307 DR XHSS KM (sold for scrap to CF Booths)
20308 DS XHNC KM
20309 DS XHSS KM
20310 DR XHSS KM (sold for scrap to CF Booths)
20312 DS XHNC KM
20313 DR XHSS KM (sold for scrap to CF Booths)
20315 DR XHSS KM (sold for scrap to CF Booths)
37038 DR XHNC ** (Super shunter at Daventry Int Railfreight Terminal)
37059 DS XHSS BH (for transfer to Daventry)
37069 DS XHSS CR (for transfer to Daventry)
37087 DR sold- Located at CF Booths, Rotherham
37194 DS XHNC KM
37218 DS XHNC KM
37229 DS XHNC KM (for transfer to Barrow Hill)
37259 DS XHNC KM
37261 DS XHNC KM
37401 E XHHP BH (for transfer to the Bo'ness and Kinneli Railway)
37402 DS XHHP CR (stopped for GSMR and RETB to be fitted)
37405 E XHHP CR (as 37402 and broken - for transfer to Barrow Hill )
37409 DS XHAC KM
37411 G sold-Located at CF Booths, Rotherham
37419 DS XHAC KM
37422 E XHHP KM
37423 DS XHND KM
37425 DS XHAC KM
37510 DS XHSS BH
37601 DS XHNC KM
37602 DS XHNC KM
37603 DS XHND KM
37604 DS XHND KM
37605 DS XHND KM
37606 DS XHNC KM
37607 DS XHNC KM
37608 DS XHNC KM
37609 DS XHNC KM
37610 DS XHND KM
37611 DS XHNC KM
37612 DS XHNC KM
37667 DS XHND KM
37682 DS XHNC KM
37683 DS sold-Located at CF Booths, Rotherham
37688 DS XHND KM
47501 DS XHAC KM
47712 DS XHSS CR
47747 E XHAC CR
47790 VN XHAC KM
47791 DS sold-Located at CF Booths, Rotherham
47802 DS XHAC KM
47805 DS XHAC KM
47810 DS XHAC KM
47813 DS XHAC KM
47818 DS XHAC KM
47828 DS XHAC KM
47832 VN XHAC KM
47839 RV XHHP ZG
47841 DS XHAC KM
47853 DS XHAC KM
57002 DS XHSS ZG
57003 DS XHCK KM
57004 DS XHCK KM
57007 DS XHCK KM
57008 DS XHCK KM
57009 DS XHCK KM
57010 DS XHSS KM
57011 DS XHCK KM
57012 DS XHSS ZA Undergoing Overhaul
57302 DS XHAC KM
57304 DS XHAC KM
57307 DS XHAC KM - carries "CABLE THEIVES WERE WATCHING YOU" branding
57308 VT XHAC KM
57309 DS XHAC KM
57311 VT XHAC KM
66301 DS XHIM KM
66302 DS XHIM KM
66303 DS XHIM KM
66304 DS XHIM KM
66305 DS XHIM KM
66421 DS XHIM KM
66422 DS XHIM KM
66423 DS XHIM KM
66424 DS XHIM KM
66425 DS XHIM KM
66426 DS XHIM KM
66427 DS XHIM KM
66428 DS XHIM KM
66429 DS XHIM KM
66430 DS XHIM KM
66431 DS XHIM KM
66432 DS XHIM KM
66433 DS XHIM KM
66434 AL XHIM KM

Coaching Stock
Number Livery Operator Allocation
1254 BG BH
3366 BG BH
3374 BG BH
5700 FV BH
5710 FV BH
5810 BG ZG
5901 BG ZK
5919 BG ZK
5971 BG ZG
5995 BG ZK
6001 BG ZG
6008 BG ZG
6046 BG ZK
6064 BG ZK
6117 BG ZG
6122 BG ZG
6173 BG ZK
9419 DS DR KM (in use with DRS as Nuclear Flask Train Escort Coach)
9428 DS KM (in use with DRS as Nuclear Flask Train Escort Coach)
9488 FV BH
9506 BG SR MH (on loan to ScotRail)
9508 BG BH
9525 BG ZG
9705 AR ZG
9707 AR ZG
17159 DS ZG

Note
*9419 and 9428 are now included in the list, sorry :roll:
*20306, 37087, 37411, 37683 and 47791 have all moved to CF Booths this week
*37401 is to go up to Bo'ness, Scotland for storage for DRS pending developments.
*The 20s stored at Carlisle Kingmoor (KM) that have been sold to CF Booths are now being stripped, not long now.....

*To answer your question, jamieintercity, 20305 is stored out of use at Crewe Gresty Bridge (last I heard) and is expected to be returned to traffic along with 20301/302/304/305 at Eastleigh, 20309 at Kingmoor and 20308 and 20312 to help with Yorkshire RHTT circuits this autumn. But as soon as the contract ends, well lets just say they'll probably follow 20306......
As for 37/0s, they are expected to remain as they are for now but as soons as overhauls become due some will be stopped but the picture isn't clear right now. But with the Class 68s arriving this time next year some 37s and 47s will meet the axe. 37422 is undergoing an inhouse overhaul and may well be the last 37/4 out for DRS.

Recognition to jamieintercity for posting on here (which reminded me to do an update), and to newbryford for picking up I had missed off the Escort Coaches.

Thanks, Sam

 

[jamieintercity]

Hi Boothby97

20303 is actually stored at eastleigh works in XHSS pool according to WNXX.co.uk, its not operational.

 

[Boothby97]

Hi Boothby97

20303 is actually stored at eastleigh works in XHSS pool according to WNXX.co.uk, its not operational.

Thanks, will be changed in the above list
Could I just say that if you do go round CF Booths on a Saturday morning, please do not post any of your pictures/videos on public photo sharing sites. Booths are not happy with photos of the locomotives in their scrapyard appearing on YouTube/Flickr.
Thanks, Sam

 

[Rhydgaled]

Have the Cumbrian Coast LHCS services started, or due to start soon? Is it still the plan to run them with class 37s and DBSOs?

 

[Boothby97]

Have the Cumbrian Coast LHCS services started, or due to start soon? Is it still the plan to run them with class 37s and DBSOs?

Not started, may start in May. Though they could start later depending on when the Mark 2s are ready. Think it's still the intention to use DBSOs. Lets just hope the train restarts soon and this long farce of waiting will soon be over :roll:
Thanks, Sam

 

[jamieintercity]

20313 is now at booths

 

[armadillomaste]

DRS class 20 stock is dwindling rapidly...