Driving large vehicles over the white line

[Bletchleyite]

Unlike cars, HGVs have calibrated speedos, so will generally be showing the correct speed.

However, there's no reasonable expectation that car owners should use anything other than their speedo. Though as noted tailgating is never acceptable full stop, so it's really irrelevant.

 

[tomuk]

It's generally a rev limit to 2000rpm or so so depends on what the gearing will get from that.

However, I think all of this is a bit moot. @tomuk seems to think it is OK to take his frustration out on another errant vehicle by tailgating them. It isn't; it's never, under any circumstances whatsoever, acceptable to wilfully increase the collision risk with another vehicle to satisfy your anger, not least because an accident caused by that could cause issues for others not involved in the situation. Two wrongs do not make a right, and someone else committing an offence (or just annoying you) doesn't justify him also committing one.

Good. Then why are you defending it? Are you perchance trolling?



Good. So please stop defending dangerous driving.



The limit of "making progress" is the speed limit. One is under no circumstances ever required to exceed the speed limit. Impatient people who wish to do so can wait, and pressuring people to do so is unacceptable behaviour.

As for undertaking, others need to comply to the Two Second Rule. Those who do so are not complying to it, and are thus driving without due care and attention. (I do wish there was enforcement of safe spacing, though it's hard to do).



Again incorrect. "Limp home mode" doesn't restrict a vehicle to 20mph, typically it's more like 50 (generally it's 1500 or 2000rpm and reduced torque). Any vehicle that can do at least 40mph is permitted on a motorway, ergo it is legal to continue on a motorway as long as "limp home mode" on your vehicle doesn't cause your top speed to drop below 40mph. However, due to the extreme hazard posed by stopping on a motorway, even on the hard shoulder or on an emergency layby, if one is in "limp home mode", it is preferable to put hazards on and proceed to leave the motorway at the next junction. Once you have done so you can then perfectly legally proceed to your destination if you wish, as one may drive any roadworthy vehicle on a non-motorway, non-special public road, e.g. many older tractors can't exceed 20 (and almost all can't exceed 30) and are perfectly road legal.

To you anything you don't agree with is either unacceptable, should happen under no circumstances, anything other then perfect driving is dangerous driving. But there is a real world out there and frankly there are some atrocious drivers on it.

In my experience it is better to remove yourself from the risky situation rather than perpetuate it. In some cases that may mean bending the rules slightly and exceeding the posted limit ie moving away of a tailgating HGV.

You aren't the law, you're not Judge Dredd, driving around like some sort of mobile court appointed speed limiter happy in the knowledge that you are strictly obeying the law and the other driver is in the wrong. You are just increasing the risk of a collision.

On 'limp home mode' you are wrong again, exactly what speed you can obtain depends on the vehicle, the fault, what the load in the vehicle is, what route you are on. You need to pull over as soon as you can into a safe place, as you say the hard shoulder of a motorway wouldn't be my first choice either, and assess the situation. In most cases I would suggest that involves calling a breakdown service. Proceeding with a malfunctioning vehicle at slow speed may be legal but it is at best inconsiderate or worst inviting an accident while your are distracted from the road ahead as you nurse your faulty vehicle along.

As regards vintage tractors, around my area denizens of that hobby tend to trailer they're pride and joy to the latest meet\rally and if not are considerate enough to pull over at frequent intervals as to not inconvenience others.

 

[TPO]

Lorries tailgating one another on motorways is often said to be due to them wishing to travel in the 'slipstream' of the wagon in front, although it leaves them with practically zero chance of stopping if that wagon hits the brakes hard.

The tailgating through 50mph roadworks is a depressingly well known issue, and happens because lorries are limited by law to 56mph. This happens to be about the speed you'll get away with in a 50 without being ticketed, and so leads to less professional drivers choosing to steam through with their foot hard down (the lorry won't go any faster once it tops out at 56), taking offence at motorists who choose to stick to the limit. It's an appaling driving habit with real potential to kill people, any anybody caught doing it in a 44 ton lorry deserves removal of their licence!

A related pet hate of mine: when the speed limit signs are put up on Smart Motorways and (one or two) HGVs ignore them.

One recently on a 4-lane "smart" M-way, the "40" mph speed limit and "lane 1 closed ahead" red-X sign came on, I was in lane 2 and slowed to 40mph (didn't pull into Lane 1 as it was showing red X on sign). Next thing is as I passed the second sign saying 40mph and lane 1 closed, I have a truck up my rear aggressively tailgating and blaring his horn because I was only doing 40mph...... he overtook then dropped into Lane 1 not having slowed down.... and not much along further with the proper overhead gantries with speed cameras he finally realised he'd better slow down and get into lane 2 and aggressively forced his way in..... I am not sure whether he missed 2 lots of restriction signs of the type that are alongside (not gantries) or if he felt the rules didn't apply to him.

Not much further beyond the gantry, a Highways Agent vehicle in Lane 1 was behind/escorting a damaged vehicle along the carriageway to the next refuge at maybe 10-20 mph. That was why the lane was closed.

It took the HGV muppet drive three sets of signs before he responded. You can see how people get killed on smart m-ways.

I am no longer happy driving on some types of Smart m-ways; the M42 way of doing it (normally 3-lane m-way with hard shoulder but when busy and speed already resricted, opening up the shoulder for running, lots of refuges and sensors) seems OK, but I have had 2 or 3 occasions on the 4-lane no-shoulder stretches of the M1 of coming across a vehicle stranded in Lane 1 with no signs yet switched on, it really makes your heart beat a bit faster even when you see them stopped a long way back there's not much time to respond.

My other bugbear is the A42 between Tamworth and the M1. It's 2-lane (dual carriageway) and HGVs are not allowed to use the outside lane between 7am and 7pm. Doesn't stop them though, they elephant race with long "overtakes" with a less than 1mph differential if any taking two or three miles to pass another truck at times. If there was a camera there it would get evidence of loads of trucks in breach of the restriction- even vehicles owned by "reputable" companies such as Stobarts.

Whilst the majority of HGV drivers are very good, there is a persistent minority who really let the side down.

TPO

 

[Towers]

To be fair, the signs themselves are a peeve of mine! There appears to be absolutely no regulation to their use, and it's a depressingly frequent occurence to find them being used inappropriately. Near me there have been two within a mile or so of one another, both the older type which display only an 'advisory' speed limit without the red border, on a small sign mounted above each lane. One was lit up showing 50, above one single lane of a four lane motorway, for weeks on end, and the other the same but showing 40. Presumably both were defective, and presumably nobody could be arsed to go and sort it out. If it wasn't for the fact that they are roundly ignored in general - for precisely this reason - they'd have had the potential to be dangerous!

 

[chesterred16]

Oftentimes they cross the lines only because they can not be bothered to steer.

What a bizarre thing to say

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Aug 2022 ==

Back to the original topic, I saw some great truck driving this afternoon. A49 closed at Woofferton, no warning until reaching the closure and no diversion signed. Everyone trooped off to the left as that was the only option, including an artic that was one car in front of me. Along the diversion route there was a tight right-hand turn at a junction to be negotiated. I read the road signs, realised the artic was going to struggle and hung back. The car in front, totally oblivious, almost went into the back of the artic when he stopped to make a shunt to get around the corner. Totally the car driver's fault for not reading the road and taking the larger vehicle's requirements into consideration. And fair play to the truck driver, it was an impressive shunt under pressure without squashing the idiot behind him.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

I observed a lot of bad driving on the A49.
..
There is a junction near me where I often observe truck drivers cutting the corner, crossing unbroken lines, if no vehicle is waiting to join the main road. If a vehicle is waiting the trucker takes the trouble to steer and negotiates the junction correctly.

I wonder if the tailgaters mentioned above who close right up to the vehicle in front, are like trolls on the Internet: just cowardly bullies?

What do they think to achieve by following so close where there is no chance of overtaking?

 

[MotCO]

A related pet hate of mine: when the speed limit signs are put up on Smart Motorways and (one or two) HGVs ignore them.

One recently on a 4-lane "smart" M-way, the "40" mph speed limit and "lane 1 closed ahead" red-X sign came on, I was in lane 2 and slowed to 40mph (didn't pull into Lane 1 as it was showing red X on sign). Next thing is as I passed the second sign saying 40mph and lane 1 closed, I have a truck up my rear aggressively tailgating and blaring his horn because I was only doing 40mph...... he overtook then dropped into Lane 1 not having slowed down.... and not much along further with the proper overhead gantries with speed cameras he finally realised he'd better slow down and get into lane 2 and aggressively forced his way in..... I am not sure whether he missed 2 lots of restriction signs of the type that are alongside (not gantries) or if he felt the rules didn't apply to him.

Not much further beyond the gantry, a Highways Agent vehicle in Lane 1 was behind/escorting a damaged vehicle along the carriageway to the next refuge at maybe 10-20 mph. That was why the lane was closed.

It really annoys me when motorists think that the big red cross does not apply to them, and that they have a god-given right to jump to the front of the queue. I had assumed that the red cross was primarily due to an obstruction in the lane; however it also became clear to me that the lane is closed for longer than needs necessary since it needs to be used for the emergency or rescue vehicles. Maybe I'm in the minority, but would it make sense for an ad campaign to draw motorists attention to this reason? After, they do do the 'Go Left' radio campaign.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It really annoys me when motorists think that the big red cross does not apply to them, and that they have a god-given right to jump to the front of the queue. I had assumed that the red cross was primarily due to an obstruction in the lane; however it also became clear to me that the lane is closed for longer than needs necessary since it needs to be used for the emergency or rescue vehicles. Maybe I'm in the minority, but would it make sense for an ad campaign to draw motorists attention to this reason? After, they do do the 'Go Left' radio campaign.

There has been one. And the "red X" on smart motorways now has the cameras on so they'll be sent a notice of intended prosecution, too.

 

[MotCO]

so they'll be sent a notice of intended prosecution, too.

That's good to hear, but not all gantries have cameras.

 

[route101]

Yes, I have had lorries on my tail numerous times, M3 is a nightmare for it on the hilly southern section.

As for the white lines, amazes me how close trucks and buses etc get on opposing carriageways.