Driving hours during disruption

[Failed Unit]

Is there an absolute limit to driving hours for a train driver, that covers disruption?

For easy figures. Let's say a driver can do 10 hours in one shift. If something happens can this hit 12?

You see a lot on East Coast in particular major disruption due to wires down. I think recently the 1200 London - Inverness took 6 hours to get to York. Just wondering how that works with drivers hours as although the driver wasn't driving they were bit exactly off duty either.

 

[dk1]

Is there an absolute limit to driving hours for a train driver, that covers disruption?

For easy figures. Let's say a driver can do 10 hours in one shift. If something happens can this hit 12?

You see a lot on East Coast in particular major disruption due to wires down. I think recently the 1200 London - Inverness took 6 hours to get to York. Just wondering how that works with drivers hours as although the driver wasn't driving they were bit exactly off duty either.

Officially shouldn't work more than 12hrs with allotted PNBs but during serious disruption what can you do? I've done almost 15hrs. They will try to get you relief if possible but it's not always easy.

 

[ainsworth74]

Officially shouldn't work more than 12hrs with allotted PNBs but during serious disruption what can you do? I've done almost 15hrs. They will try to get you relief if possible but it's not always easy.

To follow on from that what would be the knock on effects of that? Obviously there has to be a certain period of time between book off and the next book on (eight hours is rattling around my head?) but are their wider implications? A maximum number of hours worked per week for example? Or does the clock basically go back to zero at the start of the next shift?

 

[cossie4i]

On DB the max Rostered hours is 11.5 with no driving after the 11th hour.

Min of 12hrs off between Driving shifts.

Been on duty for 22hrs once due to being stuck in snow (when I worked in DC land).

 

[CyrusWuff]

Minimum of 12 hours between turns for safety critical staff. Simplified version is that a late finish where a minimal turnaround applied will result in a late book on next day.

 

[Rich McLean]

Also after prolonged periods of disruption, drivers have got off, relief or no relief at the nearest suitable location (without blocking running lines) if they have gone over hours and have every right to not take the train any further, but most drivers will continue until relief is provided.

If the former happens, then train is cancelled, and relief found to move the stock.

 

[dk1]

As long as you have 12hrs off before your next shift. If for example you didn't get done until 20:35 & you where on duty at 06:10 the next day, then you come in at 08:35 the next morning & they would have to find somebody to start of your shift. That said it most defiantly doesn't mean you finish any later the next day.

 

[ainsworth74]

Dunno where I got eight hours from! Thanks all.

 

[headshot119]

Dunno where I got eight hours from! Thanks all.

I have a feeling signalmen turn round from an 8 hour Saturday shift into a 12 hour Sunday shift on some rosters with about an 8 hour gap in the middle?

 

[Tomnick]

I have a feeling signalmen turn round from an 8 hour Saturday shift into a 12 hour Sunday shift on some rosters with about an 8 hour gap in the middle?

It used to be permitted only if it was shown on the base roster (for that specific purpose, to turn around from lates to earlies whilst retaining a decent run of rest days elsewhere in the cycle), presumably on the basis that it had been risk assessed and fatigue index'd for that specific set of circumstances, but I understand that it was stopped a year or two ago.

As a Signalman, I never went past 12 hours, at least not by more than a few minutes (because I never needed to!), but I know others who have received dispensation from Control to stay an extra hour if their relief phoned in sick at the last minute. Obviously they had the choice to say no if they didn't feel happy staying on.

 

[W230]

As above really, we've always been told no driving after the 11th hour and maximum of a 12hr shift. We would only drive longer under exceptional circumstances. And as a suburban TOC, there's unlikely to be anything exceptional where we cant get relief or leave our stock somewhere.

 

[Llanigraham]

As a Signalman, I never went past 12 hours, at least not by more than a few minutes (because I never needed to!), but I know others who have received dispensation from Control to stay an extra hour if their relief phoned in sick at the last minute. Obviously they had the choice to say no if they didn't feel happy staying on.

I've done it once, when my relief couldn't get out of his snowbound village one morning and there was no-one else available. Worked nearly the extra hour to get a few trains out of the way and then closed the Box, and spent the day in a hotel NR paid for, as I might not have got home. They finally got a MOM in a 4x4 in an hour later.
I know that has happened at a neighbouring Box once since, when someone went sick.

 

[headshot119]

It used to be permitted only if it was shown on the base roster (for that specific purpose, to turn around from lates to earlies whilst retaining a decent run of rest days elsewhere in the cycle), presumably on the basis that it had been risk assessed and fatigue index'd for that specific set of circumstances, but I understand that it was stopped a year or two ago.

As a Signalman, I never went past 12 hours, at least not by more than a few minutes (because I never needed to!), but I know others who have received dispensation from Control to stay an extra hour if their relief phoned in sick at the last minute. Obviously they had the choice to say no if they didn't feel happy staying on.

Thanks for clarifying that. I don't think I'd fancy an 8 hour turn round myself, especially if I lived an hour or so from work.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Minimum of 12 hours between turns for safety critical staff. Simplified version is that a late finish where a minimal turnaround applied will result in a late book on next day.

which is what a lot of other none railway organisations have done in the light of the EWTD ( as contrary to the assertions of some an EWTD opt out only covers the 48 hour working week average, not daily or weekly rests)