Driving bus routes - how do you learn?

[heart-of-wessex]

Hello all,

Whilst playing OMSI (Bus Simulator) with route markers on driving the rather long and windy Route 31A in Scunthorpe, I wondered just how real drivers learn the route, as even after a long day on the 31/31A on OMSI, I still need route markers to tell me where to go!

How does it work when you apply first time, do you need local knowledge as a preference? Some routes aren't that bad, like the Trowbridge to Chippenham leg on the route 234, it's long but pretty straightforward. Some routes in the nearest City, Bath, aren't too bad, however the route 20A/C there is pretty long, and when I did it when First Somerset & Avon had the route, it did seemingly go round a thousand streets, and was the same driver throughout too.

Said driver did go the wrong way once though, due to yacking on the mobile phone (yes we had some right crappy drivers in the early 2000s!), and last year I did the route 231 from Bath to Chippenham, which also takes in a few estates in Chippenham before reaching the bus station.

When you start a job, say at Bath, would you be put on the shortest City or Town route? Could you be lumbered with a county route? Train drivers get route learning videos, but what is there for bus drivers?

I also note Westbury drivers have quite a few routes 'signed', I've seen Westbury crew on the Trowbridge town's 236 (both parts) & 260, 264/265 Warminster - Bath, 234 Frome - Chippenham and 235 Trowbridge - Melksham. That's a fair bit of route knowledge to remember, along with the bus stops etc (a couple of which are generally unmarked with no flags as well).


Just curious to how you learn routes. On top of that, does anyone know of any garages that have a lot of routes a driver does, any more than the one listed above (5 routes)?


Cheers,

James.

 

[Aictos]

Hello all,

Whilst playing OMSI (Bus Simulator) with route markers on driving the rather long and windy Route 31A in Scunthorpe, I wondered just how real drivers learn the route, as even after a long day on the 31/31A on OMSI, I still need route markers to tell me where to go!

How does it work when you apply first time, do you need local knowledge as a preference? Some routes aren't that bad, like the Trowbridge to Chippenham leg on the route 234, it's long but pretty straightforward. Some routes in the nearest City, Bath, aren't too bad, however the route 20A/C there is pretty long, and when I did it when First Somerset & Avon had the route, it did seemingly go round a thousand streets, and was the same driver throughout too.

Said driver did go the wrong way once though, due to yacking on the mobile phone (yes we had some right crappy drivers in the early 2000s!), and last year I did the route 231 from Bath to Chippenham, which also takes in a few estates in Chippenham before reaching the bus station.

When you start a job, say at Bath, would you be put on the shortest City or Town route? Could you be lumbered with a county route? Train drivers get route learning videos, but what is there for bus drivers?

I also note Westbury drivers have quite a few routes 'signed', I've seen Westbury crew on the Trowbridge town's 236 (both parts) & 260, 264/265 Warminster - Bath, 234 Frome - Chippenham and 235 Trowbridge - Melksham. That's a fair bit of route knowledge to remember, along with the bus stops etc (a couple of which are generally unmarked with no flags as well).


Just curious to how you learn routes. On top of that, does anyone know of any garages that have a lot of routes a driver does, any more than the one listed above (5 routes)?


Cheers,

James.

In my local area, there is a coach which has L plates on for obvious reasons which the trainees use to learn the different routes, also note the trainees do go out on the service buses to learn the different routes as well.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Hello all,

Whilst playing OMSI (Bus Simulator) with route markers on driving the rather long and windy Route 31A in Scunthorpe, I wondered just how real drivers learn the route, as even after a long day on the 31/31A on OMSI, I still need route markers to tell me where to go!

How does it work when you apply first time, do you need local knowledge as a preference? Some routes aren't that bad, like the Trowbridge to Chippenham leg on the route 234, it's long but pretty straightforward. Some routes in the nearest City, Bath, aren't too bad, however the route 20A/C there is pretty long, and when I did it when First Somerset & Avon had the route, it did seemingly go round a thousand streets, and was the same driver throughout too.

Said driver did go the wrong way once though, due to yacking on the mobile phone (yes we had some right crappy drivers in the early 2000s!), and last year I did the route 231 from Bath to Chippenham, which also takes in a few estates in Chippenham before reaching the bus station.

When you start a job, say at Bath, would you be put on the shortest City or Town route? Could you be lumbered with a county route? Train drivers get route learning videos, but what is there for bus drivers?

I also note Westbury drivers have quite a few routes 'signed', I've seen Westbury crew on the Trowbridge town's 236 (both parts) & 260, 264/265 Warminster - Bath, 234 Frome - Chippenham and 235 Trowbridge - Melksham. That's a fair bit of route knowledge to remember, along with the bus stops etc (a couple of which are generally unmarked with no flags as well).


Just curious to how you learn routes. On top of that, does anyone know of any garages that have a lot of routes a driver does, any more than the one listed above (5 routes)?


Cheers,

James.

Excluding minor variations, my garage has (I think) 13 service routes.

New drivers spend a few weeks with a mentor and over this period they will generally drive all of these routes. After this time you're expected to know where you're going. Some drivers will then go onto the 'main' rota, where they will then be driving all of these routes on a regular basis. Others will go onto the 'training' rota, which features some of the easier (i.e less busy) routes. They then may, or may not, require some refresher training on the other routes when they request to join the 'main' rota. There's also a few schools/contract/special routes, but they only feature on certain rotas and only the drivers on those rotas are specifically required to know them, as well as knowing the other routes. Some drivers have previously worked at our other local garage (for the same operator) and hence have route knowledge for around 30 routes, occasionally driving 'on loan' to the other garage when they are short, and vice versa.

We generally only learn the routes by driving them, in service, with a mentor. Local knowledge can help, but we have plenty of drivers who weren't 'local' when they started and they don't generally need any more route training than locals. A lot of routes are fairly straight-forward once you're actually behind the wheel. Some routes seem more difficult than they are at first, but then realise that a route around a housing estate, that appears to make lots of turns, actually has lots of dead-ends and therefore only one route around the estate is actually possible. Others will mainly only make turns at 'major' junctions - traffic lights, roundabouts and suchlike, and are thus a bit easier to remember. One or two routes feature a little note about a section of route on the running board (the schedule that the driver refers to), but that usually only relates to routes with minor variations on certain journeys. There's no concrete way of doing it though.

As for going the wrong way, every driver does it at some point. It's usually a simple case of forgetting which route (you're supposed to be!) driving. This is often the case where two (or more) routes have a common section, you drive one more frequently than the other, and when you're on the rarer of the two your 'auto-pilot' tells you to follow the route you drive more often. You normally remember just as you're about to make the wrong turning. On the times that you actually go wrong, you realise at the split-second that you reach the point where you can't bail out of the manouvre. Cue headscratching to think where you can turn around and get back on route. I've even heard tales of colleagues who, on there last trip, have been thinking of home so much that they've reached a junction and instead of turning left, along the line of route, they've turned right, towards home! Doh!

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Thank you very much for the replies, just the answer I was looking for

I did wonder if you just get shown around, but at least if you're shown when driving, it's easier and by the sounds of it, they don't expect you to remember it all in a week or something.

I guess rotas depend on the company, First for instance round here have drivers on all different routes each day, however the independent company, Faresaver, allocates drivers to specific diagrams only, and are generally found driving the same route at the same times, obviously to an un-altered rota.

The ZigZag route is an example, the same driver always appears when I use it to get to work, however the route has changed recently, bending the route a bit more to serve a housing estate. When a cover driver come in, they follow the old route missing out the new bits.
Obviously this driver is just doing his job and assuming the route is still as it was the last time he went round. The company I guess either hasn't told everyone of the change or some drivers haven't been refreshed yet.

Wouldn't surprise me the slightest if they don't do refreshers mind...

 

[Ivo]

Given you've referenced First around Bath I might as well add a line or 20.

If I started for First out of Weston Island depot (that's the formal name for Bath depot for non-locals) at 0800 today, I would expect to be put on a City route. In practice this means one of the following (Heart-of-Wessex will recognise the numbers I expect): 1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 13, 14, 17 (also 12 and 14A as applicable); subject to how things turn out over the next few months, the number 16 - currently at the "feasibility study stage" - may be added to that list. The Park & Ride routes are essentially an independent operation, and drivers are generally allocated specific diagrams on these routes; the same is true of the University routes, although these do have a small number of City duties allocated to them such as the XX:14 departures on Service 15 in the afternoon - and drivers allocated to the 18 *must* be bendy-trained, for obvious reasons.

The Country routes are a completely different ball game. They do have some limited overlap with the City routes, especially in the case of the 338/339/X39, but for the most part these routes can be essentially any of the above in terms of allocating drivers. Sometimes you will see the same driver on the same route - even diagram in some cases - for days on end. Other times might see a sufficiently experienced driver on all of the 178, 232 and 265 on consecutive Sundays; I know one driver who told me about six months ago that the only route he isn't comfortable with is the 184.

As for the more localised routes in other areas, i.e. the 30, 174, 236 and 260, and also the 234 and any applicable variants, I'm sorry to say that I couldn't comment. I really don't know; heck, until December 1st, I hadn't been on any of the above routes except for the 234!

Unfortunately however, route learning isn't always a priority at Weston Island. Back in March 2011, I travelled on the 179 to Midsomer Norton. About halfway down the route, the driver didn't know where he was going, and took a wrong turn (or rather, didn't turn when he was supposed to). As such, we started going in whichever direction his "directions" suggested - based on the highly rudimentary advice of "turn right at the roundabout" or "bear right at the split"! I think we ended up about 1½mi off-route, finally returning to where we should have been going courtesy of a street map I had with me - and 26 minutes late into Midsomer Norton! Imagine a Phil Sayer -esque announcement for something like this:

I am sorry to announce that the XX:XX service to Y has been delayed by approximately Z minutes, due to the driver not knowing where he was going.

There isn't much else for me to say on the matter. I will therefore finish by needlessly listing all the routes I would feel confident of driving, and then providing a rather amusing quote a driver said to me about a month ago:

1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 12, 13, 14, 14A, 15, 17, 18, 21, 31, 41, X39, 338, 339; I would have also said 332 but it was transferred to Bristol in November.

In relation to my requesting to travel straight back to Bath city centre from Kingsway (the southern terminus on the 17): "Route learning?"

 

[anthony263]

Normally drivers work with a mentor driver and drive all the different routes. It is pretty easy once you done the different routes a few time apart from some journies where there are minor diveations such as certain buses serviing a housing estate at certain times of the day. In those cases you have to try and remember

 

[kylemore]

In the 1980s at Eastern Scottish's Edinburgh New St depot the reply to your question was "Just ask the Punters son"!

Which could get a bit hairy with Deckers and Low bridges!

 

[Deerfold]

First Greater Manchester used to run on the 562 Oldham - Halifax and 560 Halifax - Commons Routes.

There seemed to be few regular drivers on the route and they were usually just sent out with a list of roads on the route. They often missed out stops at one point where the obvious route to take is a bypass or ran early as they didn't know where the timing points were.

I once accompanied a driver to Commons and back to my stop on the 560 as he had no idea where he was going or that there was a reverse required at the terminus - I'm not quite sure he believed me about the route going down more and more minor roads until we reached the terminus.

There are some very old (but fairly permanent) signs from the 1980s indicating to drivers which roads to take for route 567 through the hilltop villages of Mill Bank, Soyland and Cottonstones - this was a version of the current 528 (briefly 568) which then became the 527 and was replaced by various routes over the years (524,564, 566). I wouldn't advise current drivers of the 531 which serves the area now to take any noice of them or they'll go the wrong way.

 

[PaulLothian]

About 40 years ago I used to regularly use the overnight Edinburgh to London coach, and one summer morning found myself on a coach with a crew who had never done the all-stops service (in and out of towns and villages off the A1). As there was no route sheet in the vehicle, I ended up navigating for them during the last 40 miles of the journey. As the last passenger on board, I bade them a cheery farewell in Finchley, leaving them to find their own way to Victoria!

 

[90019]

When I was training, we did do route learning in the training buses, but when routes change or move depots, and you're no longer at the training school, it's up to you to learn them.
It's also the case for moving from single decks to the deckers that you have to learn the routes yourself, be it by driving them in your car or just sitting on the bus in question.

The only route I've had to learn by myself so far is the 12, which I used a combination of sitting on the bus over the whole route and driving the majority of it in the car (as I learn routes better by actually driving them).

Planned diversions go up in the depot with a map showing the routes affected and where they're to go, though it can occasionally be a little tricky to figure them out once you're out on the road and have never done that diversion before.
Unplanned diversions that come over the radio are done by street names, and if you don't know them it's a case of follow another bus if there is one, or get on the radio when you get there and aren't sure and get them to give you directions. However, when roads have been closed for whatever reason, it's normally fairly obvious where to go. There are also a few diversions that get used whenever certain parts of the city get closed, which you learn quite quickly.

Being turned was one of my worries at first, as I'm not particularly good with street names, but having driven the routes loads of times now, I've learned the places on the routes where they'll turn the buses.

I've only had a couple of wrong turns so far - one because I was driving a 19 which I only drive on sundays and have driven less than 10 times in the past 9 months, and when I got to a roundabout I followed the route of the 24 and 29, which I drive all the time. The other because I'd just been on the radio being asked about traffic from roadworks and missed a turn.

When you start a job, say at Bath, would you be put on the shortest City or Town route? Could you be lumbered with a county route? Train drivers get route learning videos, but what is there for bus drivers?

For the last two days of training, we got sent out with a driver to do part of their shift with them, partially for routes, though mainly just for some experience before going out on your own.
Once you start, you can be sent out on any of the routes you have to know - in my case it was 6 Monday to Saturday, with an extra 3 on Sundays as well.

Just curious to how you learn routes. On top of that, does anyone know of any garages that have a lot of routes a driver does, any more than the one listed above (5 routes)?

Currently I only have 5 Monday to Saturday (1, 12, 24, 29, 36) though there's one single deck X12 as well which is on my rota. I also have the 19, 41 and 47 which are single deck on Sundays. The night shift single deck guys also have to know the 18 and 21.

You've got to watch out on the 12 and 29 as they both have three different destinations at one end - Gilmerton, Gorebridge or Mayfield on the 29, The Gyle, Ingliston P&R or Ratho on the 12.


The decker drivers at my depot have a total of 17 routes, if you include the X routes as separate ones (some of which deviate a fair bit from the normal route). There's also at least one journey on a route from a different depot in one of their duties. They have to know three of my routes which they wouldn't normally do.

 

[RJ]

I was given an Oyster PAYG Card and told me to go and spend the day learning routes.

It was then done on trust - if you say you learnt the route, you'd get work on that route. I drove 15 different routes in London in the space of 4 months, including one to Heathrow Airport where I was trying to learn a route whilst in service by stalking another bus. There were 4 of us running together (15 minute timetabled frequency) because the controller's system went haywire. I got to Hatton Cross and was told to run empty to Heathrow but when I got there, I took a wrong turn and ended up on top of a car park when I was supposed to be underneath it. Luckily, two of the buses I had been following had caught up and were at the roundabout when I got back down to earth, so I followed them in.

On the return it was worse because I was in service and had to serve the side roads rather than run direct. I was following another bus to begin with but lost him on a 50mph road when I had to serve a bus stop. Great fun. I was also wondering why so many people were brazenly walking past me and getting on through the back doors, until I remembered about Heathrow Freeflow.

Now I do rail replacement buses and random bits and pieces so there is no route learning - just provided with a map at the beginning of the shift. I would rather pull up at a bus stop, switch off the engine and consult a map than ask a passenger for help, after I've heard stories of passengers giving drivers directions - to their house, on a road where they knew there was a low bridge further up.

 

[87015]

Interesting, if a driver turned up on our rail replacement and didn't know the route and was more than five minutes late for that reason the company would certainly not be getting paid full rate!

 

[Shrimper]

When I started at Stagecoach Manchester we spent a week on a training bus doing all the routes in both directions (eliminating certain duplicated sections); with a trainer giving us pointers of things to look for for help/reminders. We were also issued with 'idiot sheets' which give detailed instructions using landmarks such as pubs and traffic lights. TFGM also create maps for most routes so we got copies of these as well.

As a new starter I also got 2 weeks with a mentor, and in this period I covered most of the routes I'd be doing, though not all. After the two weeks I knew most of them and simply kept the idiot sheets handy for the ones I was less familiar with; in one case using a rest day to drive the route so I knew it for sure as I only got rostered it 3 months after route learning!

Schools etc were not on the main roster which made life easy, as a lot of them go round the houses (we did get shown one 'just in case' which seemed to serve every estate in south Manchester which in a quirk of fate I now need to know for my current employers!).

I was fortunate as I have a decent memory for routes, to the extent that some tendered routes we do at my current location I knew despite having never done them before; just because I'd seen them going round and knew where they went. In my time as a driver I've only ever gone wrong twice - once when my mentor forgot to remind me to make a turn on day one in public service; the second time was down to a diversion which I wasn't notified of.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

An interesting variety of different learning types I must say!

With this Mentor, I assume this person also guides you through the ticket machine with what types to use etc?

Ivo - The 1 I wouldn't do in the summer as a starter, I'd love to be at the controls of an open top Olympian, but not for the first time down some of the roads!
I think the 1 is covered by X1 drivers, as one driver I had in the morning was driving the 354, who then worked the X1 most of the morning and then found him driving the 1 later on mid-day. Don't know if that was a one off cover or something.

Further to my ZigZag note, we had another cover driver today who when the old route. I first asked when was the last time he did the ZigZag, about 6 months ago was the reply, the route changed only the end of 2012, so that would explain why. I did say it wasn't his fault of course, obviously no-one told him that the route had been revised. He even looked at the timetable and the driver card, both of which didn't note the new side route, and none of the new 3 bus stops were timing points either.
It's not obvious either that something's different as I noted on the card that none of the timings have changed from the old route, which explains why the bus is generally a few minutes late after doing the two new permanent diversions.

We had a bit of a chat in the end about routes, I asked out of curiosity what routes he does, and as a cover driver he has route knowledge on every Faresaver route, so that's 30-40 school/college contracts in Wiltshire, Avon and Bristol and 14 service routes.


I think I could possibly do it on the simulator, I think where I'm going wrong is I have a habit where if I'm not sure I'll just call up the helper arrows to tell me where to go. I should really stop relying on them!

 

[90019]

One thing I forgot to mention was the city centre, particularly Princes Street, where different routes call at different stops, I personally get a few of the little maps with the city centre stops and have one for each route with the stops highlighted, but after a week or so of using them I know what stops where, and don't need them anymore.
Elsewhere, there are a few places around the city with multiple stops, but the majority of them are obvious if you think about it logically - though there is one on the 19 that I'm never sure about, but that's more due to how rarely I drive it.

Of course, with the ever changing road layouts (thanks, tramworks :roll, it can only be a matter of weeks between stops changing, but there have only been a few major ones since I started.

 

[burns20]

I was given a week to learn all our depots routes as part of my training. Then 3 days of mentoring and off I went alone, my first day alone 3 days ago was in the fog on a fairly complicated route so was fairly interesting, even more so in the dark as you don't realise how different everything looks.

And to add to that the huge operating area my depot has, I could drive to the Lakes, the Dales, Blackpool Tower and the infamous Preston Bus Station.

 

[notadriver]

That's a pretty varied range of work with impressive route knowledge. Is it a good rate of pay?

 

[Lewisham2221]

I was given a week to learn all our depots routes as part of my training. Then 3 days of mentoring and off I went alone, my first day alone 3 days ago was in the fog on a fairly complicated route so was fairly interesting, even more so in the dark as you don't realise how different everything looks.

And to add to that the huge operating area my depot has, I could drive to the Lakes, the Dales, Blackpool Tower and the infamous Preston Bus Station.

Ah yes, the dark. I'd forgotten how much difference that makes. You could drive a route a hundred times in daylight, the first time you drive it at night and you suddenly feel lost. Everything looks a lot different.

 

[notadriver]

I don't see the difference - after all you can drive a car in the daylight or at night ...

 

[90019]

I don't see the difference - after all you can drive a car in the daylight or at night ...

Yes, but it's not the driving part that's being discussed, there's no problem with that, it's following a route if you don't know it that well, as some things can look totally different at night, meaning you're not quite sure where you are.

 

[burns20]

As an example on a country run I was given an instruction turn left at the second white farm gate, daytime fine, foggy and dark nightmare, cue kerb crawling down a single track lane!

 

[Shrimper]

Plus people have a habit of dressing all in black and hiding behind bus shelters, so you need to be prepared for bus-stop ninjas.

Heart-of-Wessex: We got an afternoon of ticket machine training running through the various functions and issuing various types of ticket. The mentor was mostly for assisting us with transferring from the training school to the 'real world' with passengers, routes and running boards; plus imparting useful advice and nuggets of information that you wouldn't find written down anywhere. Plus for the first few days at least they will usually assist in keeping time, as most new drivers are a lot slower both on the road and whilst dealing with passengers so I'd normally do a couple of trips and then the mentor would take over to put us back on time. By the end of the fortnight the idea is that the mentor moves slowly from next to the cab to the back of the bus where they can be of help if required but can see whether you are doing the job correctly or not.

 

[Tom B]

Of course, with the ever changing road layouts (thanks, tramworks :roll, it can only be a matter of weeks between stops changing, but there have only been a few major ones since I started.

I am glad to hear that since I moved away from Edinburgh, the city centre is still a mess. Especially fun was when the maps published and distributed to passengers differed from the ones the drivers were given...

I do recall a few years ago when the 25s moved from Longstone to Marine, for the first few weeks journeys were much slower as drivers had to refer to maps etc for details of the route. One took a wrong turning at Hermiston and ended up on the City Bypass heading east. A standing-room-only bus, an ancient V-reg decker, on the bypass was a novel experience, to say the least. The control room calling him up to ask what on earth had happened to him was amusing...

 

[90019]

I am glad to hear that since I moved away from Edinburgh, the city centre is still a mess. Especially fun was when the maps published and distributed to passengers differed from the ones the drivers were given...

They shouldn't be, as we get the same ones that are available to passengers.