Driving a loco etc, having not driven the type for a while.

[cambsy]

I recently had interesting conversation with the driver, who had driven my train, after I got off the train having had a tardy and slow run, subsequently running 19 mins late, I went to find out if loco had experienced problems etc, not in Nasty way, just out of interest, and ended up having fascinating chat.

The driver said that he had taken over part way through the journey, and that he only drove the 57’s every 6 months or so at his depot, so was inexperienced on them, and that the 57’s have poor brakes, which either don’t come on properly or release properly, which made it scary driving them, and said, sorry if rude that he literally **** himself, and was nerve wracking experience, so I sympathised with him, as it sounded a very unpleasant experience for him, so can understand why he very gingerly drove the train, braking very slowly and way out from platforms

What is it like for Drivers in situations like this and how do you handle it?? Are the 57’s hard to drive? Do drivers dread runs like this when they appear on Rosta?. I now have a better understanding of what driving a train can involve, and how stressing it can be, especially when given a hard to drive loco, which inexperienced on, and then add on the scrutiny one has driving trains, I think id give that a miss if at all possible.

 

[ExRes]

Sounds to me like he should have a chat with his manager, he's either in dire need of some training or should be looking for a new career before something hits the fan

 

[43066]

which made it scary driving them, and said, sorry if rude that he literally **** himself,

Hopefully figuratively rather than literally !!!

 

[800001]

If he felt like you said, he should not of driven the train in my opinion.

 

[Fragezeichnen]

A former Deutsche Bahn ICE instructor driver once told me his least favourite train to drive was the Austrian RailJet, because his depot only had 2 turns per week on it and accordingly he drove it very rarely.

I don't think it was the actual driving that bothered him, more that as "foreign" multi-system traction, it was highly complex and was set up quite differently to the other trains he drove; which created the potential for mistakes in configuring the train's systems and resolving faults.

 

[Class800]

Surely the driver would need to sign the traction, according to previous threads, so not quite sure what happened. Maybe just having a bad day, we all do

 

[Donny_m]

Anyone who’s gone from a nice new rental car on holiday back go their 2010 clapper when you get back knows how the difference in braking sensitivity takes some getting used to at least on the first day, going into the new car and then going back to your own one. Maybe it’s similar between traction you’re used to and traction you rarely drive.

 

[yorkie]

The original post has been anonymised; many thanks to all who used the report button; as always if anyone sees anything that causes concern, don't reply, simply report.

Hopefully figuratively rather than literally !!!

It's increasingly common these days for the term literally to be used hyperbolically for dramatic effect.

 

[irish_rail]

Did he say what depot he was at? Penzance men notoriously don't like driving the 57 on the mainline as they have virtually no work on it (mainline) , just Truro to PZ on a Monday. There are also a handful of complainers at Plymouth who are for whatever reason afraid of it as it isn't as easy as driving an IET.

Yes the 57 is a challenge to drive, especially if the brakes aren't great or you have a dead engine on the back, but most of us just adjust our driving style accordingly. About a year or so ago i had a very troublesome DRS engine, the brakes where exceptionally slow coming off i think from memory, but I just did what every professional driver would and adjusted my braking points etc, and reported it to control. Exeter and Plymouth men id say are on the 57 at least every month , so maybe it was a PZ man you were talking too....

 

[43066]

Did he say what depot he was at? Penzance men notoriously don't like driving the 57 on the mainline as they have virtually no work on it (mainline) , just Truro to PZ on a Monday. There are also a handful of complainers at Plymouth who are for whatever reason afraid of it as it isn't as easy as driving an IET.

Yes the 57 is a challenge to drive, especially if the brakes aren't great or you have a dead engine on the back, but most of us just adjust our driving style accordingly. About a year or so ago i had a very troublesome DRS engine, the brakes where exceptionally slow coming off i think from memory, but I just did what every professional driver would and adjusted my braking points etc, and reported it to control. Exeter and Plymouth men id say are on the 57 at least every month , so maybe it was a PZ man you were talking too....

We had a few who were terrified of HSTs for similar reasons: different and more difficult than the other stuff. A distant memory now, sadly!

 

[70014IronDuke]

It's increasingly common these days for the term literally to be used hyperbolically for dramatic effect.

Not just "these days". I remember Mr Heatherington, our English teacher, instructing us about this in the third form. And that was in the days when the Beatles were number 1 in the charts on a regular basis, Bulleids reigned supreme on the LSWR main line and milkmen delivered their thing each morning

It's use was a no-no - except in quotes - in at least one serious daily paper's style guide last time I looked.

 

[TreacleMiller]

As I said yesterday before the thread was deleted.

A driver can drive a unit/loco as long as they sign it. If youre about to lapse tomorrow but are asked to drive today youve really got any "right" to refuse. A good control team wouldnt have done it though. Knowledge retention is one of the main reasons drivers are as well paid as we are and why getting the jobs in the first place is cutthroat.

Its possible to drive a route you dont really do often, on traction you dont do often and be expected to do so competently - even if you only have 1 days worth of time remaining before that competency lapses. Chuck in bad weather, train faults etc. and hes had a stressful day!

 

[cce]

What is the lowest level of involvement you can have and still be considered formally competent?

Some examples above where a depot (presumably tens of drivers) only has two turns a week on traction, it could be months before a driver had 'another go' on one.

Also, surely if you're new to a class you need more regular turns to really bed in your knowledge? Someone who's driven a class regularly for a decade would suffer less from a few months off than someone who's only just passed on the class.

 

[Evolution]

As someone who signs both units and locos (albeit much more modern than a 57), there is a bit more skill to handling a loco, especially when driven on passenger services. The more modern locos (67/68's) brakes release a lot faster than the older stuff but braking points are significantly different from a unit. When leaving a station you have to build the power up slower and more progressively than you would in say an 802 for instance.

You also get a bit of coupler "slap" when jumping on the brakes hard if you're coming in a bit fast, similar to when units are coupled.

I can understand how the driver may have been a little edgy if they don't drive locos often and are driving networkers or sprinters the majority of the time. If it was a major issue then they may need to have a word with a DTM and request a bit of ECS handling time. I think the driver was just talking figuratively.

What is the lowest level of involvement you can have and still be considered formally competent?

It's normally 6 months and your competency expires, you'd then need to put in for a refresher before driving the traction again.

Slightly different but I remember after passing out for the first month or two, I would dread coupling units, especially during peak times. If I saw on my diagram I was due to attach/detach I wouild be thinking it through beforehand and praying nothing untoward happened! On the odd occasion a unit wouldn't couple/uncouple it did get a bit pressurised but this is where you just follow the process and don't ever rush things!

There days, after driving for several years now, I don't bat an eyelid when I have to couple up. It's just down to experience and familiarity and this is what the driver was probably alluding to.

 

[cce]

Thanks, that's a really interesting insight - I suspect those worries you had about coupling would've been worse if you'd passed on that class and then not driven one again for 5 months and 27 days? Getting out there and doing it daily soaked the knowledge you'd learned in and you became confident in it.