Driving - a lifetime lesson!

[Ianno87]

I disagree with your disagree. Would you stop a witness statement from being taken? Dash-cam footage is effectively an unbiased witness statement. It's not perfect but can certainly prove who is at fault the vast majority of times (both for and against you). Having been on the other end of someone lying when they crashed into me (and there were no witnesses, he turned left in the right-hand lane), I was only saved by the other parties stupidity towards the police otherwise I would have been stuffed. This was before I had a dash-cam.

You are under the assumption that everyone is truthful which is a noble stance to take. Unfortunately it is not true and never will be

I'm not denying that Dashcam is (usually) incontrivertible evidence. But taken to the extreme, I could wear one on a helmet as I walk around all day long to capture absolutely everything I ever witness "just in case".

Flipping it round - has a persons' own dashcam evidence ever been use against *themselves* successfully? I'd personally make it a legal requirement (if it is not already) to hand over dash cam footage (if fitted) in any accident, irrespective of the initial "blame". I fear their use in such cases is a little "one sided" or selective at the moment. Used where the defendant has one, but if the accused/responsible party has one, they may not be required to hand it over as evidence.

I know its futile to expect the whole world to be "nice" and "honest". But driving round videoing everything just to me symbolises everything wrong with modern life/blame culture, and I'm happier not participating in it even if that places a small risk (or more accurately fails to remove an existing risk) on myself. That's the attitude that personally on balance makes my own life happier.

 

[Geezertronic]

I am sure there will come a time when either vehicle manufacturers will fit dash-cams as standard, or insurance policies will give a discount for cars with a dash-cam (not sure whether this is the case at the moment) with the explicit requirement to provide footage after an accident and if footage is not provided then a penalty is applied.

There are people who wear body cameras in their line of work. Police, security officers, bailiffs, on the railway ticket inspectors to name but a few. They wear the body cam to not only protect themselves but also members of the public. In this day and age where video of staff can be plastered over social media and can give a skewed version of events (i.e. half the story), it is an unfortunate necessity to protect ones-self and the company you work for

 

[telstarbox]

As a fairly recent passer myself I can recommend the book Roadcraft which is the police driving manual.

 

[Dai Corner]

Not directly dashcam related, but modern cars record all sorts of data which apparently the police can ask for. I'm not sure whether this paragraph from the owner's manual of my car applies in the UK.

Recording of Vehicle Data
This vehicle is equipped with a computer which records the following main vehicle datarelated to vehicle controls, operation, and other driving conditions.



Recorded data

• Vehicle conditions such as engine speed and vehicle speed
  
  
• Driving operation conditions such as accelerator and brake pedals, and information related to the environmental circumstances while the vehicle is driven
  
  
• Malfunction diagnosis information from each on-vehicle computer
  
  
• Information related to controls of other on-vehicle computers

The recorded data may vary depending on the vehicle grade and optional equipment. Voice and images are not recorded.



Data handling

Mazda and its subcontracting parties may obtain and use the recorded data for vehicle malfunction diagnosis, research and development, and quality improvement.

Mazda will not disclose or provide any of the obtained data to a third party unless:

• An agreement from the vehicle owner (agreements from lessor and lessee for leased vehicle) is obtained
  
  
• Officially requested by the police or other law enforcement authorities
  
  
• For statistical processing by a research institution after processing the data so that identification of the owner or the vehicle is impossible

 

[SWTCommuter]

Flipping it round - has a persons' own dashcam evidence ever been use against *themselves* successfully?

From the BBC News website this morning:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-sussex-43913537/drink-driver-films-journey-on-dashcam

 

[33056]

Been driving for the best part of 40 years and I think that the general standard of peoples driving is far worse now than back then; there's no way that I'd start to learn to drive now and I actively try and avoid driving anywhere if I can help it.

 

[birchesgreen]

The driving is worse, though brakes and steering are better (and of course crash protection) which mitigates it somewhat.

 

[Cowley]

From the BBC News website this morning:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-sussex-43913537/drink-driver-films-journey-on-dashcam

I watched that earlier. Terrifying

 

[najaB]

One day in the future I think that my great grandchildren will say to their grandparents: “What? So you were allowed to take two tons of metal, glass and plastic that was capable of going 140 mph out on the roads without any form of automation whatsoever!? How did you all manage to survive?”

I doubt it'll be as far down the road as your great-grands. I'd be quite surprised if your grandchildren (assuming they aren't born yet or are under 5 years old) will drive a fully 'manual' car.

 

[Busaholic]

When I passed my test, hand signals still had to be given as part of it, though I'm glad to say the guy with the red flag walking in front of the car had been retired. I passed my test in Maidstone, Kent, and the M20 motorway had recently opened there. Ten minutes after the pass, I was driving on the motorway, in the BSM test car with instructor at my side, and I'll always be grateful to him for having that confidence in me. Two weeks later, I had my own car and was driving to and from work on that motorway every day. I've enjoyed driving ever since, and fortuitously have avoided other than minor shunts etc, although I've had a parked car wrecked by a drunk driver. I wouldn't like to drive in a city or on motorways every day now, but I still clock up c 13,000 miles p.a., with a lifetime total of at least 600,000.

 

[D365]

From the BBC News website this morning:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-sussex-43913537/drink-driver-films-journey-on-dashcam

I watched that earlier. Terrifying

Agreed, completely scared me. In broad daylight of all times.

 

[Cowley]

I doubt it'll be as far down the road as your great-grands. I'd be quite surprised if your grandchildren (assuming they aren't born yet or are under 5 years old) will drive a fully 'manual' car.

Yeah good point. My daughter turned 17 yesterday, but I’m certainly not ready to become a Grandad yet.
It probably isn’t going to be long before automation takes over road vehicles, I’ll adjust my wild claims to my childrens children instead.

On a similar theme though: I’ve taken my 19 year old stepdaughter for the odd lesson recently and have come to this conclusion - OK. Soldiers, school teachers, social workers, the police, ambulance staff, nurses, junior doctors, deep sea fishermen, test pilots, fire service personnel, prison wardens and people that work with special needs have absolutely nothing to worry about compared to someone who’s a nervous passenger at the best of times and has been bought in to show someone clueless how to drive

 

[PeterC]

When I passed my test, hand signals still had to be given as part of it, though I'm glad to say the guy with the red flag walking in front of the car had been retired. I passed my test in Maidstone, Kent, and the M20 motorway had recently opened there. Ten minutes after the pass, I was driving on the motorway, in the BSM test car with instructor at my side, and I'll always be grateful to him for having that confidence in me. Two weeks later, I had my own car and was driving to and from work on that motorway every day. I've enjoyed driving ever since, and fortuitously have avoided other than minor shunts etc, although I've had a parked car wrecked by a drunk driver. I wouldn't like to drive in a city or on motorways every day now, but I still clock up c 13,000 miles p.a., with a lifetime total of at least 600,000.

I think that I have needed to give a hand signal once in 50 years driving. That was before cars had a third pair of indicators on the wings and I was trying to manouvre to the right across three lanes of dense traffic at Hyde Park Corner.

 

[Dai Corner]

The only hand signals I ever see are the unofficial ones like raising a hand to acknowledge a courtesy. I understand there are some rather less polite ones too!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

In the news today across most outlets is a moron who thought cruise control was automatic pilot...

 

[bramling]

Been driving for the best part of 40 years and I think that the general standard of peoples driving is far worse now than back then; there's no way that I'd start to learn to drive now and I actively try and avoid driving anywhere if I can help it.

Yes the standard of driving has definitely got worse over time, most particularly in the London area.

 

[najaB]

Yes the standard of driving has definitely got worse over time

That's not really surprising considering that the bar to entry has lowered steadily over the same time period.

 

[tony_mac]

In the news today across most outlets is a moron who thought cruise control was automatic pilot...

That's not exactly what happened - it's not a standard cruise control, but the system is (mostly) capable of fully autonomous control.
https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/autopilot

 

[Busaholic]

I think that I have needed to give a hand signal once in 50 years driving. That was before cars had a third pair of indicators on the wings and I was trying to manouvre to the right across three lanes of dense traffic at Hyde Park Corner.

For reasons I've long forgotten, my first ever drive commenced on Piccadilly and involved circumnavigation of Hyde Park Corner, this in a vehicle, an old Post Office Morris, whose indicators were of the arm variety. I didn't get phased and I've a feeling I had my driver's sliding door open and hand signalled all the way, on the belt and braces principle! It made me realise I'd enjoy driving but, as you say, hand signals were definitely on the way out and it's been decades since I used any.

 

[IanD]

That's not exactly what happened - it's not a standard cruise control, but the system is (mostly) capable of fully autonomous control.

Basically, he was just a tosser with more money than sense.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

That's not exactly what happened - it's not a standard cruise control, but the system is (mostly) capable of fully autonomous control.

He still got banned for it... and rightly so.

 

[341o2]

My friend who is a driving instructor always says that the only thing a blinking indicator tells you is that the bulb is working.

Nice one, although there are also jokes about certain makes of car, where the indicators are disabled.
One to watch at roundabouts is the driver signalling right - could be taking either the second or third exit
Or failing to cancel the indicators after a manouvre
Flashing headlamps is another one with different drivers assuming different meanings

 

[341o2]

Whenever there's an idiot behind you, tailgating, intimidating and generally having no regard for your safety, then have no qualms whatsoever in letting them past. They're a liability and an accident waiting to happen and with them in front of you, you can take back control and make sure you're not involved in that accident.

Indeed. Sooner or later, that driver will crash, and you don't want to be around when it happens. Most important during the first few years not to have any accidents or endorsments. If you are involved in an accident, it will invariably be your fault on the basis of being a new driver

 

[robbeech]

As you get older and more experienced with driving, you will pick up a sixth sense for idiots on the road. A bit like reading body language except you’re reading car behaviour.

I can be driving behind someone and just not feel comfortable with how they drive, and then a moment later witness them make a sharp turn without indicating.

Exactly this.
You quite often just know who the idiots are before they do anything too obvious. You can often tell by some slightly bizarre movement that they’re going to make a sudden stop or turn and you can act before they even do it.
I can approach junctions and see a vehicle and just know damn well they are going to pull out in front of me. I will often be braking before they ever start to move. Things do still catch you out from time to time but you learn to read people fairly quick.

 

[Busaholic]

Exactly this.
You quite often just know who the idiots are before they do anything too obvious. You can often tell by some slightly bizarre movement that they’re going to make a sudden stop or turn and you can act before they even do it.
I can approach junctions and see a vehicle and just know damn well they are going to pull out in front of me. I will often be braking before they ever start to move. Things do still catch you out from time to time but you learn to read people fairly quick.

Speaking of reading, here in Cornwall if you're following a car with a 'Kernow' Cornish flag sticker on the back the driver is at best mediocre if not a downright maniac. In my experience they will either not indicate/indicate wrongly/get in the wrong lane/weave between lanes/be talking on their mobile etc etc. It's got to the point where I want to be proven wrong, or at least not had it confirmed each time, but I'm still waiting! Lest anyone think I'm hyper critical of most drivers, that's not the case at all, but I can't believe it's a coincidence. I always stay well behind or get past if safe to do so: at least most of them aren't boy racers.

 

[tony_mac]

I think it's weird that there are obviously loads of terrible drivers out there, yet none of them post on internet forums!

 

[PeterC]

There are two things that no man will ever admit to:
1. Being a bad driver
2. being a poor lover

 

[Clip]

I think it's weird that there are obviously loads of terrible drivers out there, yet none of them post on internet forums!

I do! I can be bad at times like forgetting tof indicate at times and I don' believe everyone is as perfect as they make out utility at least no one has mentioned their expensive cars yet in some sort of willy waving contest like we seexpect in therror thread about which is better train or plane

 

[bramling]

I think it's weird that there are obviously loads of terrible drivers out there, yet none of them post on internet forums!

Even just considering the journey I made this evening from Hertfordshire to London, from memory I witnessed:
1) Multiple instances of people pulling out from side roads resulting in my speed having to be adjusted

2) Multiple instances of people failing to indicate correctly on roundabouts

3) Multiple instances of poor lane discipline on motorway - either in the overtaking lane whilst not overtaking, or sitting in the middle lane.

4) Multiple instances of poorly judged lane changes on motorway

5) Multiple instances of undertaking to get in front of someone who has left a safe gap

6) Multiple instances of red lights being passed some time after the light had turned red

7) Multiple instances of incorrect lane use on roundabouts, the error then being aggravated by failing to follow-through the initial error but instead trying to correct it resulting in others having to take avoiding action

This is how simply incompetent many drivers are in the London area. Sunday evenings seem particularly bad - perhaps this is because people go out for the day then as soon as closing time comes the focus turns to rushing home to get ready for work the next day.

The biggest disappointment associated with growing up is when it dawns how stupid many adults are...

 

[Cowley]

Even just considering the journey I made this evening from Hertfordshire to London, from memory I witnessed:
1) Multiple instances of people pulling out from side roads resulting in my speed having to be adjusted

2) Multiple instances of people failing to indicate correctly on roundabouts

3) Multiple instances of poor lane discipline on motorway - either in the overtaking lane whilst not overtaking, or sitting in the middle lane.

4) Multiple instances of poorly judged lane changes on motorway

5) Multiple instances of undertaking to get in front of someone who has left a safe gap

6) Multiple instances of red lights being passed some time after the light had turned red

7) Multiple instances of incorrect lane use on roundabouts, the error then being aggravated by failing to follow-through the initial error but instead trying to correct it resulting in others having to take avoiding action

This is how simply incompetent many drivers are in the London area. Sunday evenings seem particularly bad - perhaps this is because people go out for the day then as soon as closing time comes the focus turns to rushing home to get ready for work the next day.

The biggest disappointment associated with growing up is when it dawns how stupid many adults are...

Well I hope you had a word with yourself after you made all those mistakes Bramling...